TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Music Discussion
-- Electro
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »

Electro

was created in 1981 by the germans in a production by kraftwerk called numbers


does anyone disagree if so why? and if not, are there earlier songs with breakbeats like this, and sequence patterns like this that are the foundations of electro?

ya or new order's blue monday in 1983...???...i bet there's a bunch of disco shit from the 70s that's amazing

you need to arrive to an agreement about what constitutes an 'electro' track with whoever you are discussing prior to claiming a particular track is the first one to meet the defintion.

in other words, this discussion will be useless until you provide the definition you're working with.

Re: Electro

quote:

Originally posted by LieberDJ was created in 1981 by the germans in a production by kraftwerk called numbers does anyone disagree if so why? and if not, are there earlier songs with breakbeats like this, and sequence patterns like this that are the foundations of electro?

I disagree to an extent, but I could not hold up an arguement to prove my point.

I would agree if you said it was the one of the first, or maybe the first notable major elctro production.

Re: Electro

quote:

Originally posted by LieberDJ was created in 1981 by the germans in a production by kraftwerk called numbers does anyone disagree if so why? and if not, are there earlier songs with breakbeats like this, and sequence patterns like this that are the foundations of electro?

Let's not forget 'Trans-Europe Express' (1978) by the same artist.

structure. Breakbeat rimshots instruments

if you look at numbers you can see that arthur baker (in planet rock) used the exact same patterns for kick, clap rimshot. The fact that trans europe express is sampled as well says alot for the credit that should be given in the genre definition.

Have any artists (besides baker) used the instrumentation that was used in planet rock? (synth hits, cowbells etc). Also does anyone know what kind of sampler or drum machine baker used.


Im saying baker because i think it is widley accepted that he is known as being responsible for creating electro

quote:

Originally posted by ivanbee ya or new order's blue monday in 1983...???...i bet there's a bunch of disco shit from the 70s that's amazing

yes 1983 is too new

Re: Re: Electro

quote:

Originally posted by beats and beeps I disagree to an extent, but I could not hold up an arguement to prove my point. I would agree if you said it was the one of the first, or maybe the first notable major elctro production.

please do give more insight, i am here with open ears

Oh man.. this thread is going nowhere fast.

I would say that while Numbers isn't technically the first electro track.......it would be the main ingredient in electro.

At what point do eggs become a cake mix? ....when you put it in a mixing bowl with other stuff.

Numbers is the prime ingredient in electro. Not actually Numbers itself, but just that breakbeat, which is in literally 80% of electro and 50% of freestyle, and of that number, almost all of them sample the break from Planet Rock, though a few use the original Numbers, and some reconstitute it piecemeal by themselves (though they don't have to). It's a simple 2-bar break that sounds something like this:

Boom-cha boom cha
boom-cha boom boom-cha-ka-boom

That's it. Probably the most addictive and widely used break of all time, next to maybe the Amen. Beats out everything I've ever listened to in terms of sampling, ripping off, copying, plagiarizing, and flat out emulating. The Numbers break.

Did it exist before Numbers, though? That's the big question. I can't find any evidence of it. If it did, it's likely Kraftwerk didn't know about it and created the break themselves independently, and it's a moot issue anyway since the electro artists were all looking to Numbers as their inspiration, not this earlier track which may or may not exist that they very likely did not know about.

Electro artists loved Kraftwerk. Numbers was their favourite track. The drum machine they used was the Roland TR-808.

I'd just like to say that Numbers is a fucking excellant track, probably my fav from the Kraftwerk gang, and it still tears up any club (see Paul Woolford's Essential Mix from Space Terrace last year).

That will be all

It's probably worth mentioning that the brilliant Number of Names - ShareVari also came out in 1981, aswell as the first Cybotron record, 'Alleys of the mind' (a few weeks later than ShareVari). I'm not sure where Numbers/Computer Love fits into this timeline but 1981 definitely seems to be the year.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur That's it. Probably the most addictive and widely used break of all time, next to maybe the Amen.

whats Amen?

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit whats Amen?

It started off as a song called "Amen, Brother" by the Winstons who were a 60's funk act. The main rhythm of the song is sampled in most jungle and drum and bass music and even influenced a couple hip-hop rhythms. That now familiar sample is simply referred to as the Amen break.

quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 It started off as a song called "Amen, Brother" by the Winstons who were a 60's funk act. The main rhythm of the song is sampled in most jungle and drum and bass music and even influenced a couple hip-hop rhythms. That now familiar sample is simply referred to as the Amen break.

intresting.. you learn something new everyday

sample of that amen thing please

quote:

Originally posted by paranoik0 sample of that amen thing please

it's on ishkur's guide i think.

what about all that afrika bambata shit?

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur I would say that while Numbers isn't technically the first electro track...it would be the prime ingredient in electro. Not actually Numbers itself, but just that breakbeat, which is in literally 80% of electro and 50% of freestyle, and of that number, almost all of them sample the break from Planet Rock, though a few use the original Numbers, and some reconstitute it piecemeal by themselves (though they don't have to). It's a simple 2-bar break that sounds something like this: Boom-cha boom cha boom-cha boom boom-cha-ka-boom That's it. Probably the most addictive and widely used break of all time, next to maybe the Amen. Beats out everything I've ever listened to in terms of sampling, ripping off, copying, plagiarizing, and flat out emulating. The Numbers break.Did it exist before Numbers, though? That's the big question. I can't find any evidence of it.

First of all it's a coincedence that Planet Rock sounds like Numbers. It's like saying Paul Van Dyk's 'For An Angel' was sampled from the track 'YMCA' by the Village People just because they both incorporate the same 4/4 dance beat. Planet Rock has nothing to do with electro. It was mainly a contribution by Afrika Bambaataa & Soulsonic Force to the then up and coming hip-hop/rap movement of the early 80's.

I also disagree that the prime ingredient in electro is the beat. Electro did not have a completely defined beat. It was one of those genres of music that you could not immediately identify based on the beat alone as opposed to other genres of music such as jungle or drum and bass. Electro is so much more than that 'consisting of synthesizers used for the melodies and basslines, electronic drum machines for percussion and - many times - vocoders or other sound effects for the vocals. In addition to these instruments, tape recorders and later samplers were used to reproduce prerecorded sounds within a song context. Sequencers were used to compose, record and play back the music. Finally, computer software has recently become a popular alternative to create, compose and record electronic music.' Although most of the music used a typical dance beat there were some variations. Below I have provided a zip file with samples that exude the very essence that is the definition of electro:

Electro Samples

Also the samples should answer your question of whether electro had any early beginnings prior to 1980. In one sample there is a song by Kraftwerk themselves called Trans-Europe Express dated 1978 which differ from the 'Numbers' break. My main point is that electro is not defined by its beat nor is it the main ingredient.

Since you mentioned breakbeat I'll let you slide on this one, but I'd be careful how you label electro as 50% Freestyle. Freestyle music is also known as latin hip-hop. Most of the music talks about love's trials and tribulations, breakups, heart-aches, and the like. After freestyle was on it's last leg in the mid-90's it evolved into what we now know as breaks or breakbeats. Below is a zip file full of freestyle samples:

Free Style Samples

quote:

Originally posted by paranoik0 sample of that amen thing please

The Winstons - Amen Brother <---This is where it came from
Aphrodite - We Enter (Deep Forest Dub) <---A song using the amen break

quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 First of all it's a coincedence that Planet Rock sounds like Numbers.

It's not a coincidence. THEY FUCKING SAMPLED IT, and then laid the 808 pops on top of it. LISTEN TO THE FUCKING TRACK.....hear the midrange crunchy sound? That's Numbers, stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur It's not a coincidence. THEY FUCKING SAMPLED IT, and then laid the 808 pops on top of it. LISTEN TO THE FUCKING TRACK.....hear the midrange crunchy sound? That's Numbers, stupid.

Excellent way to support an argument using expletives rather than knowledge. This conversation's over so read my sig and go away.

stevie boy is a genius

quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 Excellent way to support an argument using expletives rather than knowledge. This conversation's over so read my sig and go away.

I don't know what your sig says. I have all images, sigs and avatars turned off because they distract from the flow of conversation.

I use expletives for emphasis...as in "how can you be so bloody dumb?!" which is what I usually do when one--as in this case, you--won't listen to reason and knowledge.

Okay, so a generation of hip hop-electro artists, self-admitted Kraftwerk lovers, Kraftwerk samplers, Kraftwerk referrers, Kraftwerk emulators and supporters......just by happenstance created a breakbeat that sounds exactly like a Kraftwerk track from their latest LP?

Yeah, and it's just coincidence that the climbing scales in Cybotron's Clear sound exactly like Kraftwerk's Home Computer. Give your head a shake. Dan Sicko's "Techno Rebels" tells the story, not you.

quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 Excellent way to support an argument using expletives rather than knowledge. This conversation's over so read my sig and go away.

i have to agree with ishkur here, he is right 100 percent. If baker did sample trans europe express, its clear that he did use numbers as a template. If you listen to numbers you can see that the rimshots and breakbeat are the same as planet rock.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.