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OT: What software can build a Flash website?

Sorry for the off topic question but this is where I hang out.

I was wondering what application is best to build a Flash web site. I'd like something not overly complicated. I'm finally going to get some hosting and set up my artist site.

Thanks and peace.
-Heather

There are many host sites and flash builder ones around the internet who offer a ready to go .fla movies.
It'll be a pain i the *, if you're going to build a flash website by yourself and you must know some actionscript in general, so I would recommend Macromedia Flash MX (yep, the common one)
good luck with your website

Re: OT: What software can build a Flash website?

quote:

Originally posted by 4am Sorry for the off topic question but this is where I hang out. I was wondering what application is best to build a Flash web site. I'd like something not overly complicated. I'm finally going to get some hosting and set up my artist site. Thanks and peace. -Heather

Macromedia Flash 8 (which is the successor of Flash MX 2004)

There are some other progs which can make Flash too, like Swish. But I would recommend Flash 8, I use it myself a lot (made some websites for companies).

Don't build your entire web site in Flash. Have an intro (with a "skip" button), a banner, even parts of your navigational interface in Flash if you really think that's necessary - but not the whole site.

I don't want to get into the whole argument again, but here are a few quick reasons why you should never do this:
1. Bookmarks don't work.
2. Browser navigation doesn't work.
3. Some people don't have Flash and don't want Flash.
4. Some people block Flash because of its use in intrusive ads and popups.

Sites made in 100% Flash just irritate viewers. You've been warned.

FYI, the only application that can make Flash elements is Macromedia Flash (surprise surprise).

and its a bitch to learn

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja and its a bitch to learn

No, it's very easy to learn, that's the problem. It's just bad design.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut No, it's very easy to learn, that's the problem. It's just bad design.

thats a joke... its not bad design if its not flash only...

I hate flash sites...... css/xhtml....

I only hate flash sites that force you to sit thru long intros (no skip feature) and no sound off button. I hate sites that take a long time to load. But mine won't be that way.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Don't build your entire web site in Flash. Have an intro (with a "skip" button), a banner, even parts of your navigational interface in Flash if you really think that's necessary - but not the whole site. I don't want to get into the whole argument again, but here are a few quick reasons why you should never do this: 1. Bookmarks don't work. 2. Browser navigation doesn't work. 3. Some people don't have Flash and don't want Flash. 4. Some people block Flash because of its use in intrusive ads and popups. Sites made in 100% Flash just irritate viewers. You've been warned.

I mostly agree on that one. When you develop a webpage, you should always keep your audience in mind when developing a personal homepage. If you want everybody to be able to enjoy it, make two versions. One HTML and one Flash version.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut FYI, the only application that can make Flash elements is Macromedia Flash (surprise surprise).

That's not correct. You can develop flash-pages with many other programs. Some even has built in templates, so you just fill in the text and voila. Done!

Personally I wouldn't make any of my pages in Flash due to some of the arguments diginut pointed out. On the other hand, Flash has a couple of advantages. It's based on a standard. It WILL look the same in any browser and it's more interactive than DHTML can ever be.

IMO unless your super serious about flash authoring, Macromedia Flash MX isn't really the way to go. it is quite hard to get your self up and running when your new and its also quite expensive!

Use swish..

http://www.swishzone.com/

Made for the newer user in mind, very powerful and much cheaper (about a 1/3 of the price) than MX!

I'm surprised everyone's saying Flash is hard etc. Flash is one of the easiest things to learn and the interface is intuitive as hell. Besides, it's great fun, limitless possibilities, you can go as far as your imagination.

Thanks for all the replies. I don't know that Flash is all that hard to learn either. I haven't tried it. But I'm quite technical and I'm sure I can figure it out if I have to.

Thanks again
-Heather

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Don't build your entire web site in Flash. Have an intro (with a "skip" button), a banner, even parts of your navigational interface in Flash if you really think that's necessary - but not the whole site. I don't want to get into the whole argument again, but here are a few quick reasons why you should never do this: 1. Bookmarks don't work. 2. Browser navigation doesn't work. 3. Some people don't have Flash and don't want Flash. 4. Some people block Flash because of its use in intrusive ads and popups. Sites made in 100% Flash just irritate viewers. You've been warned. FYI, the only application that can make Flash elements is Macromedia Flash (surprise surprise).

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with much of this post.

Here is the real story.

If you want to build a site and have never used flash before... go with html or php or whatever, if you know it. The newest releases of flash do a great job of making it more accessable to new users... but do you really want to spend 800 bucks on software you can't even take 5% advantage of? Of course not. If you don't know actionscript (Flash's internal scripting language) stick with something else.

Unless you are extremely good at Flash animation DO NOT ATTEMPT to make a Flash intro to your site. Ammature flash intros look rediculous. If you are an artist and can use Photoshop, go with a splash screen.

Flash menus add tonnes of functionality to your navigation system. If your site is complicated enough to need submenus use Flash; it is the best option, provided you do it properly. I could help you with that if you needed it, but I have yet to see an artist's site that needed submenus. That is mostly left to large companies and sites with tonnes of content and elaborate substructure.

And I really want to address these... like DigiNut I don't want to get into a Flash argument, but I feel the thread needs an answer to this preposterous challenge.

Challenge 1. Bookmarks don't work.
Answer 1. Um... yes they do. I know you meant that you cannot bookmark a specific state of the Flash movie, but if the designer so wished, you would be able to.

Challenge 2. Browser navigation doesn't work.
Answer 2. Again, it is possible. But this is an artist's site. If you really needed to be able to bookmark a specific part of the site or navigate between "Home" and "Songs" with the back and foreward buttons... you would be a moron.

Challenge 3. Some people don't have Flash and don't want Flash.
Answer 3. True, but if you wish to cater to 2.7% (http://www.macromedia.com/software/...us/flashplayer/)of the population... be my guest.

Challenge 4. Some people block Flash because of its use in intrusive ads and popups.
Answer 4. So these people who downloaded the Flash player, only to block the content... do they have names or should I just toilet paper the houses on Stupid Friggin Idiot Street.


And Flash MX is not the only Flash authoring tool. That has been said before... but seriously, anyone with access to google could find that out in less than 5 seconds.


All in all, if you know alot about Flash and actionScript, go for it. If not, but still wish to make elements of your site Flash, Swish is a great alternative, as Artisan said.

It takes me and most people about .5 seconds to figure out if a site is Flash based or not, and how to navigate it. If you are making your site for fat old men who hardly ever use the internet but may want to look up your record sales compared to, say, Mauro Piccotto, go ahead and make everything in html so their tired old brains can work around it. Otherwise, do whatever you want, the Sony Records execs don't give two bits.

quote:

Originally posted by djglacial It takes me and most people about .5 seconds to figure out if a site is Flash based or not, and how to navigate it. If you are making your site for fat old men who hardly ever use the internet but may want to look up your record sales compared to, say, Mauro Piccotto, go ahead and make everything in html so their tired old brains can work around it. Otherwise, do whatever you want, the Sony Records execs don't give two bits.

Then again, usability and content over flash any day.

I guess I'm just a fat old man who hardly ever uses the internet.












Oh wait...

To be honest, I don't know anything about Flash. But I'd like to. It's not just for a web site but just to have another creative tool to express myself. I've seen some neat flash movies. Sometimes I feel the urge to create visuals to go with my music. I think it would be fun and worth learning. I have a friend who designs sites. She has Flash so I'll have her show me around the program and I'll do some studying up on the actionscript.

Peace.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Then again, usability and content over flash any day. I guess I'm just a fat old man who hardly ever uses the internet. Oh wait...

"Usability and content over flash..."?

That's like saying "visibility over pencil drawing" or "function over medium."

How about "function over form?"

Or better yet "do what you have to do so it looks good and operates."


All I'm saying is, if you can pull it off, do it. The best looking sites in the world are Flash, bar none. Looks just aren't everything. Still, give me a non Flash site that beats www.2advanced.com in looks combined with function, and you win the title "King of the Internet", which is currently held in tie by DigiNut and Pam Anderson.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Then again, usability and content over flash any day.

Exactly.

It's got nothing to do with page loading, page size, or any of that other shit - it's got everything to do with usability.

The fact that dj assclown on here is calling everybody idiots who disagrees with him exemplifies my point. These people don't care how usable their site is - to them, anybody who has a problem with it is a moron.

That's not a good way to go about designing web pages. You're marketing yourself. You don't want to be marketing yourself as an elitist snob. You're in the business (or the hobby) of creating art for other people's enjoyment; if your site is gewgaw, people will assume the same about your music.

I myself use a plugin for Firefox called Flashblock that thousands of other Firefox users use. It replaces every Flash movie with a "click here to view" button, and most of us use it specifically for avoiding intrusive/malicious Flash scripts as well as those generally annoying pages that clutter up everything with Flash. I have it installed, but only load it on demand, and if I see an entire site with no content other than a flash movie, then guess what - I'm going somewhere else.

Flash sites are a cancer on the web, right up there with popups, blinking text and right-click blocking. I'm not suggesting it's never appropriate to use it, but it is probably one of the most often misused and downright abused technologies of the web that I have seen to date. People use the web to find information - they don't care about your artistic skills unless you are specifically in that business (and music production isn't related closely enough to justify that assertion).

If the reasons I posted above were not enough, consider a few more of them:
- Flash sites aren't indexable by search engines; say goodbye to a Google rank.
- Flash sites can't easily be linked to by other web pages
- Font resizing doesn't work on Flash sites
- Flash sites are often not printable (and hard to make printable)
- Updating a Flash site is far more labour-intensive than updating a regular site (unless you are an expert and can create good dynamic content within Flash)
- Flash doesn't work with accessability tools (screen readers, etc.)

Understand that on the web, users have customized their browser the way they want it and do not want YOU, the designer, messing with THEIR UI. Learn to accept the fact that on the web, you do not own the end user's interface! Flash has become a way for people to refuse to accept this and try to force their users to see content the way THEY would like it to be seen, instead of the way the USERS want to search for it.

This is exactly what you'll hear from almost every web design professional.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Exactly. Understand that on the web, users have customized their browser the way they want it and do not want YOU, the designer, messing with THEIR UI. Learn to accept the fact that on the web, you do not own the end user's interface! Flash has become a way for people to refuse to accept this and try to force their users to see content the way THEY would like it to be seen, instead of the way the USERS want to search for it. This is exactly what you'll hear from almost every web design professional.

How would I be messing with their UI? If they don't like it, they can just close it. If I design a web site, of course I want others to view it the way I intended it... You seem to hate flash alot. Damn, it's not Satan.

I really enjoy flash-enhanced web sites.

Anyway, I'm outta here. This thread is done.

big lol again @ digi.. dude,,, why not go back i dos?.. that way our 3+ ghz processors cant work faster like they were ment to...


ive seen what ppl can do with flash... its worth every not working bookmark and every flashmovie.. (well... sometimes)

I don't see why you cant bookmark.. I have a bunch of flash only pages bookmarked.. Just bookmark the .swf

Remember Macromedia Flash is more animation based than website creation based.. It's going to take you a week or two just to start getting anywhere with the program.

Although I haven't used the program for 4-5 years at least. No doubt it's changed alot.

html/xhml sites have limits, flash sites don't

You can make a flash site as if it was a html site, while the loading size is like ten times less. Html is ancient, Flash is the future. However I agree some Flash sites suck in navigation, loading times etc etc, but that's not the fault of the program, it's the fault of the designer.

end of story

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Then again, usability and content over flash any day.

+mfing 1

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Exactly. People use the web to find information - they don't care about your artistic skills unless you are specifically in that business (and music production isn't related closely enough to justify that assertion).

I agree with that to a point. I am a graphic designer, and I finance almost all of my music with graphic design. There is a simple truism about web design:


You can have the best content in the world, but a flashy website sells better than a plain site with plenty of great text.


I have made sites with minimalist designs and great content, and I have made sites that resemble Depthcore.com desktop backgrounds. Guess which paid more? Websites are advertisements, and advertisements are (technically) art. You're trying to catch the eyes of customers. So, regardless of your field of expertise, a professional website WILL enhance your image.

Flash sucks most of the time, but a slick-looking HTML site is simply good advertising.

quote:

Originally posted by Thois html/xhml sites have limits, flash sites don't You can make a flash site as if it was a html site, while the loading size is like ten times less. Html is ancient, Flash is the future. However I agree some Flash sites suck in navigation, loading times etc etc, but that's not the fault of the program, it's the fault of the designer. end of story

If you can give me ONE single proof of that "Flash is the future", I'll shut up. Until then, go "n00b" somewhere else.
www.w3c.org. Check what's up there. XHTML 2.0 and CSS3 is on it's way, and will give us with coding skills tons of more ways to beautify our pages so that EVERYBODY can watch them.

About loading time, let's se.
When a Flash document loads the browser first has parse the sourcecode, then fetch the object, then it has to load it, and then display it.
When it loads a HTML document it parses it. The Flash size contains tons of meta-info and are always bigger than an HTML file.
If you paste 10kb of text into a HTML docoument, the filesize would be almost exactly 10kb, but in the flashbyte it would be much more due to all the information needed to show it the way it's intended.

Loadingtime is NOT something Flash can brag about. It's often twice as much as the HTML.

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