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Death Penalty Alternative
OK...after all that religious talk we all did in that other post...i ended up talking with some friend son the subject and got mixed answers from them....
then one of my friends started talking about the Death penalty and stuff....so we had this extremely long conversation about it...
NOW
Personally i AGREE with the death penalty.....and before we start
I KNOW that there are many people on death row who are innocent...
BUT THATS NOT WHAT THIS POST IS ABOUT....SO LETS NOT TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT U MAY BE KILLING AND INNOCENT PERSON because this discussion is supposed to be about people WHO ARE GUILTY and its been prooven beyond ANY possible doubt...OK
ok now that we got that straight....i was thinking about it (the death penalty)....and personally i think the way inwhich we kill someone with it are quite painless in MODERN ways...meaning that MOST people when put to death are done so with lethal injection in AMerica....and the first shot they give you is a sedative then you go to sleep then you get the lethal drugs...thats crazy...
but anyway i am not going to start and say we should throw people off buildings or cut them up with a chainsaw (even though many people who are criminals DESERVE it)....i am instead going to talk about an alternative to killing these people...and bare in mind i am an advocate for the death penalty...
My alternative for the death penalty is this...
We take the people who are GUILTY beyond any possible doubt (and please dont start saying "well how do you know for a fact" and all that crap...once again this is for people who have been sentenced to death and are no questions asked GUILTY)...
ok
so we take those criminals and we run EXPERIMENTS on them...for instance...we take a man who has raped a 12 yeard old then killed 4 people in a store because hes a fucking nut case and we put him in a secured hospital ward and inject him with CANCER cells or the AIDS virus or Lymphoma or Diabetes..or any other life threatening dabilitating disease...then we run tests and try new drugs to find the side effects...we try new treatments in a quest to find a cure for these diseases...
In todays day and age we have so many terrible diseases that are so sad to even get into....so why not take these people who have prooven that they can not act civilized in our society by killing/raping or torturing other people and try and find cures through them...it would be a whole lot more beneficial to run experiments on them then it is on a pig or a monkey or a lab rat...they are human beings so we would see the results and how they result....
Some people will say well that makes us no better then the criminals...but if we are going to put them to death ANYWAY why not perform these test and drugs on them...either or they will be killed atleast this way they can live longer and try and repent for their sins to God 
and make it right by helping another or maybe even an entire population of people....
Just imagine the possiblities....we could try anything on them...EVERy single disease known to man...i am not saying test shampoo on them or nail polish (even though i wouldnt care).
heres a little HUMOUR for ya...
OK NOW if a certain criminal who was sent to death row decides to part take in this way and doctors and scientists HAPPEN to find a cure for something through that criminals body...then that criminal gets to go free....WHAT AN INCENTIVE...LOL
I know people are going to arguen the death peanlty here and all that..but thats not what this is about...the detah penalty ehre in America is legal in MANY states...so i am saying this new method would be taken place in those states where it is legal for the death penalty...
i dunno jus my little idea.....i know if i was a criminal and i did all sorts of terrible havoc on the world and to so many innocente people that i would want to give back and give my body for experimentation....that is of course if i was sorry for my crimes and etcc......
well, it is illegal under the nuremburg codes to use a person for med. experimentation without their consent...i gtg now, ill elaborate at a different time. anyway, i DISAGREE with the death penalty...bbl!
Just my topic, i did a whole 15 pg research paper for OAC LAW. The death penalty needs to be in force because 1)psychopaths cannot be reabilitated 2)You need to protect society and for some very angry criminal death is the only way you can protect society and what about prison officials and people who work there, they need to be protected 3)Who the hell speaks for the victims, it is always all about the prisoners right but if they had not committed that act and what about the victims families and the ppl around it. They can't bring them back. Look here is my plan, clearcut guilty =death penalty unsure=life in prison. Example is Ted Bundy, he needed to be excuted for his crimes, ditto with timothy mcveigh. Now abu ma jamal (something like that) should have got life in prison if they were not sure, who wakes that call, i'm not sure. If you want a PRO death penalty site.......www.prodeathpenalty.com but please take a look in the links, they have links to neutral sites, anti and pro death penalty sites. I could keep on arguing about this but it seems that most sides are pro, anti or neutral and typing what i think will not sway them anyways. Always an interesting subject among everyone because everyone's view is so different.
to torontotrance.....
this isnt whether or notm u agree with the death penalty but whether u think practising medical experiments on them rather then just executing them would be beneficial to all the people suffering from ailments with no cures...i am interested in what u think
as well as what Renegade thinks,,,,wehn he gets here..
Well...I dont think medical experiments should be performed...but what about organ donation? Ppl need livers, kidneys, lungs, etc..why not remove say 1 kidney and 1 lung*you can live with just 1* and THEN kill them? Or take em all and just kill em that way*sedative, they go under, take all usefull organs, then give lethal shot* that way, some good comes from the death of these horrible people.
I wont agree with cures for diseases, cuz most diseases are naturally occuring things, and therefore I think should be left to run their natural course. Not all transplants should be approved either..Im kinda sadistic tho.
Its my view that both the death penalty and medical expierments are wrong. Prison for life seams fair to me, but thats my view.
Jon
that's not really humane is it? Comes pretty close to torturing in my vision. Breaks a couple of conventions also.
So they are wrongdoers. Who are you (who is the state) to make them suffer for their acts...the state is not miss fortuna or God. In the worst cases, you can bring them to death, like you said, put them to sleap, that way you take away the threat to society, that's all you can do and justify it.
You get my point of view? Who decides they need to be punished. The psycho's you talk about don't feel remorse. This indicates they don't feel they did anything wrong. You won't even any scores with them in a fair way by inflicting serious pain on them.
to j_spot
...i respect your opinion...but if your going to take their organs why not just use their entire body...
you say dont search for a cure cause mose diseases are naturally occuring and should run their course....well then why even take the organs like you said...people need organs for diseases right...because their organs have failed in some way...
how can u honestly say let diseases run their course...have you ever seen someone dying of cancer or lymphoma...it is horrendous....a terrible and painful death....when you get a cold do not take cough medicine or an antibiotic or soemthing of the sort...more then likely you do...so then you are contridicting your own statement....i still cant beleive u said let most diseases run their course...thats wild.....maybe you should visit a hospice and look at all the people with "naturally occuring" diseases (whatever they are) and tell them they shouldnt take medication because they should let the disease run its course...thats absurd......
Re: Death Penalty Alternative
| quote: |
| Originally posted by tiesto14 so we take those criminals and we run EXPERIMENTS on them...for instance...we take a man who has raped a 12 yeard old then killed 4 people in a store because hes a fucking nut case and we put him in a secured hospital ward and inject him with CANCER cells or the AIDS virus or Lymphoma or Diabetes..or any other life threatening dabilitating disease...then we run tests and try new drugs to find the side effects...we try new treatments in a quest to find a cure for these diseases... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by tiesto14 to j_spot ...i respect your opinion...but if your going to take their organs why not just use their entire body... you say dont search for a cure cause mose diseases are naturally occuring and should run their course....well then why even take the organs like you said...people need organs for diseases right...because their organs have failed in some way... how can u honestly say let diseases run their course...have you ever seen someone dying of cancer or lymphoma...it is horrendous....a terrible and painful death....when you get a cold do not take cough medicine or an antibiotic or soemthing of the sort...more then likely you do...so then you are contridicting your own statement....i still cant beleive u said let most diseases run their course...thats wild.....maybe you should visit a hospice and look at all the people with "naturally occuring" diseases (whatever they are) and tell them they shouldnt take medication because they should let the disease run its course...thats absurd...... |
human experimentation would be considered cruel and unusual punishment. the 8th amendment outlaws any type of cruel and unusual punishment.
they should be injected with sleeping medication, they when everyone leaves, the scientists should haul the "dead" guy away. They take out the dude's useful and operational organs and brains and donate them to science muhahaha 
Or may kill the con the same way they killed someone else. If the guy crashed a plane into a building killing many people and survived, that person should stand in the middle of a runway with a plane heading toward him at 200mph. lol.....wait am i sick?
the death penalty is wrong, torture is wrong. There is no ifs, buts or maybes about it. The people who kill criminals in the name of Justice are no better than the people they kill.
There were people who did medical experiments on unwilling participants, they were called Nazis. This also happened to black people in the United States where doctors observed the effects of Syphillis without telling the patients there was a cure.
How can killing someone not be called cruel and unusual punishment.
because its law. Its not cruel(they are given a shot, go to sleep, then die) or unusual (what is unusual about death? Nothing) I think the death penalty should apply to more crimes. It doesnt work as a deterant to crime, which is what it should be. Fuck..if I lived in the stated, I would try to make sure I stayed out of Texas if I was to kill somebody..
its cruel because the people on death row, spend years and years on it not knowing if they are going to get a reprieve, a pardon, whether they will have a succesfull appeal. Its cruel to send 40000 volts of electricity through someone, and if they dont die, to zap them again. Its cruel, most importantly because a fair percentage of people on death row are innocent.
Its happens time and time again in the States where people are sentenced to die but are later found to be innocent through DNA testing.
Its also disproportionately applied to minority groups.
Ifs its not a deterent why use it? To make you or society feel good about itself. What that says is you are killing them not to protect society but for revenge.
ok you said not to get into whether or not i belive in the death penalty but screw it, twas bound to happen anyways
i belive that a criminal should be put to death if and only if two things
1) he has commited a horrendus crime against humanity
2) It is safer for humanity that he is put to death
prime example is "bin laden"
check off #1 because none of us doubt that what he did was unhumane.
check off #2 because if he were put away in prison for life just imagine what might happen. they (his followers) could try to storm into the compound and try to save him (therefore killing more) or worse yet threaten and commit more terrorist acts until he is released.
now these are pretty hard criteria to meet so there would be very few in the history of the world that desreve the death penalty.
Personally...i think the death penalty should be delivered to the following types of crime...
1. Murder (except in self defense or by accident)
2. Child Molestation...in EVERY case....this is the sickest form of a crime ever to of exist
But i just think that if we used those people for experiments we would better the world....
Give me 1 reason why a murderer that killed someone in cold blood or a child molester who takes the most innocent humans when they are in their weakest states and then perform sexual acts on them...these criminals are the scum of the earth and any ammendment, commandment, or law should NOT be granted to these people...
the minute they committed these horrific acts they decided that they do not want to live by the rules and order that we have established as humane....they have no purpose on this planet
My opinion is that the death penalty isn't severe enough. I know it goes against the 8th ammendment and all of that, but it seems to me that making the death penalty as long and horrendous as possible would help crime rates drop. And to add to it, the execution could be shown on closed circuit tv to every prison cell in the compound, so that others can see what will happen to them if they keep doing all the bad stuff they're doing. Just simply putting someone to sleep like you would a pet is just too easy. They won't feel a thing. They most likely don't fear death to begin with, but maybe they would fear all of the extreme pain that they could be subjected to. I personally think that criminals who get the death penalty should die in the worst ways possible, kind of like using them as an example. It's just my little theory, but I believe that would deter crime some if not significantly. Or maybe I'm just a sicko. 
Here's a crazy idea. How about (here in the US) you take a state no-one cares about like Kansas or something (jk), or a large portion of one and build a huge inpenetrable wall around it. People who are found guilty of capital crimes are then released inside to do what they want. If they're going to eat, they have to hunt or grow food etc. Basically they can build themselves a new society. Or not. They can choose to kill each other. It doesn't matter. It's humane. It takes them out of society. It gives them a second chance WITHOUT the possibility of once again harming a decent, law abiding citizen. Oh well, just a thought. I'm sure there's a bunch of reasons why it wouldn't work but I think it's a pretty good idea.
What if they built a new nation inside this area we've given them and they take over the U.S.?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by rupert its cruel because the people on death row, spend years and years on it not knowing if they are going to get a reprieve, a pardon, whether they will have a succesfull appeal. Its cruel to send 40000 volts of electricity through someone, and if they dont die, to zap them again. Its cruel, most importantly because a fair percentage of people on death row are innocent. |
america already has 2 million people in prison or under corrective management. 2 million. Thats insanity. Im sure thats more than the population of many american states. Has it solved any problems? Turning a country into a vast prison.
why do you people want to take criminals out of society. I'm not a murderer and im not a child molester either, that doesnt make me better than them though. They are still human. Who am I to judge them. Its always a soft option to say this or that group is less than human, to make you feel better about yourself. When you dehumanize people you surely travel the road down to Auschwitz.
People who commit violent crimes that endanger society should be imprisoned, not to punish them but to protect society from them.
Respect for Human rights doesnt stop at the law abiding. Osama bin Laden, terrorists, murderers, molesters, etc deserve the same rights under the law as anyone else. When you take away their rights you become no better than them. Some people once said "we believe these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal". They didnt say all white people, all christians, all the law-abiding, "all Men"
The Australia model, shipping people to an island far away. Who were the people they sent here. People who stole a loaf of bread to feed their family because they were poor, Chartists(people who worked to create trade unions, which were illegal in those days) ordinary people like you, like me. Did it solve any problems in England. Not at all. It created new problems here. Being shipped to Australia was not a holiday for those people.
about using the death penalty and torturing as a way to "scare off" other potential criminals into not doing any crime....
The US got death penalty (well some states). The netherlands do not. I can't say that here we have chaos and people randomly murdering each other. In fact I dare to say that I enjoy the Netherlands and I think it's a bit safer and crime-less than the states.
So scarin off prolly...don't work. Other measures may be better than medieval practises.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by rupert america already has 2 million people in prison or under corrective management. 2 million. Thats insanity. Im sure thats more than the population of many american states. Has it solved any problems? Turning a country into a vast prison. why do you people want to take criminals out of society. I'm not a murderer and im not a child molester either, that doesnt make me better than them though. They are still human. Who am I to judge them. Its always a soft option to say this or that group is less than human, to make you feel better about yourself. When you dehumanize people you surely travel the road down to Auschwitz. |
Re: Death Penalty Alternative
| quote: |
| Originally posted by tiesto14 I KNOW that there are many people on death row who are innocent... |
, and state that hanging him would decapitate him, and that would be "cruel and unusual punishment" under US law....
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