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Liberals covered up Dingwall affair until after election potentially altering vote

And in other news, seems the Liberals didnt change their stripes even days before the election. Thank God these clowns are sitting in the backwaters.

quote:

Grit election ploy to hold out on news of Dingwall's whopping severance package, irate Tories charge OTTAWA -- The Liberal government engaged in a "coverup" that skewed the federal election results when it kept David Dingwall's $417,780-severance secret until after Canadians had cast their ballots, senior Conservatives charged yesterday. The hefty compensation package for the former Royal Canadian Mint boss was approved Jan. 20 -- three days before the election -- but the ruling from the binding arbitrator wasn't made public until this weekend. Senior Tories accused the Liberals of sitting on the information instead of being up-front with Canadians during a campaign that focused on government ethics. "It's despicable, especially for someone like Paul Martin, who came into office promising to be more transparent," said Conservative MP Jay Hill. In the dying days of the last Parliament, senior cabinet ministers insisted that taxpayers would be on the hook only for the bare minimum in severance because Dingwall had resigned of his own volition amid the uproar over his exorbitant expense claims. But the arbitrator ruled that Dingwall's departure was "involuntary." "It has all been proven to be a lie by this independent, third-party arbitrator," Hill said. "He was pressured into quitting; otherwise he wouldn't be eligible for any severance." Hill said the incoming Conservative government will explore if there are options open to challenge the severance and warned that Dingwall -- and even Martin -- could be hauled before the public accounts committee to answer questions why Canadians were misled. Conservative MP Jason Kenney believes it could have made the difference between a Conservative minority and majority if Liberals had disclosed the information before the vote. "This was a coverup that affected the result of the election and I think in away subverted democracy," the Alberta MP told CTV's Question Period.

funny how everyone has something to say about harper's cabinet choices but nothing to say about something that could have very well altered democracy in this country.


hmmmmmmm

altered democracy? oh please, lol...that's a bit dramatic

That fact being revealed may very well have handed the CPC a majority...but it would have been a backlash majority...not one that resulted from a genuine desire of the people to have a CPC majority, IMHO.

I think most Canadians will that agree a change was needed...but I also think that most Canadians are happier that we have a CPC minority vs a majority. Shitty Liberal move, but if it prevented a majority, then GOOD.

After all, already Harper has given us reason to pause.

He essentially campaigned on a platform of honesty and integrity...
that he would restore faith in the gov't...blah blah.

then, ON DAY 1, he pulled one of the *exact* same moves for which the Liberals were ripped...successfully "bribing" another party's MP with a Cabinet position.

Personally, I think Harper and the CPC would be better served by focusing on governing...showing us what they will do for *us*. I don't want the first 6-12 months to be spent "uncovering corruption" and trying to permanently bury the Liberal party...I want it to be spent improving this country, as per their campaign platform.

here's hoping day 2 is less dramatic (and hypocritical) than day 1, eh?

backlash or not it clearly could have affected voting results. and no matter what your political feelings are you cannot deny that that IS a perversion of democracy in it's purest form.

Its time for some liberals to go to jail.

Hey Jay,

Conservatives aren't going to be any different. It's only a matter of time before the Conservatives will do the same things the Liberals did. I should start counting.

It's unfrickenbelievable the amount of criticism dished out at Belinda for her defection to the Liberals, when David Emerson just did it, and was welcommed with open arms, the same open arms the Liberals were bad-mouthed for. There is no acceptable reason that this case it's different, it's not, and it's worse.

Jay, DON'T get me wrong (you often mis-judge me and assume too much), I'm glad the Conservatives are in power.

AJ

Personally, I'm not that worried about the Emerson defection in the Conservative cabinet - that's just the game - Any party would try to do it... No 'holier than thou' sentaments would change that fact.

What's more concerning is the Michael Fortier appointment. Harper has spent the last three years harping about PMO corruption, pork-barreling, influence-peddling, whatever your favourite phrase happens to be. To come in and parachute your Quebec campaign manager into a now much-scrutinzed position is irresponsible and is nothing more than chapter two of PMO cronyism.

What's the problem Stephen? Not enough competent women? (I'm sure Diane Ablonczy is having fits out in Alberta)

Not enough experienced MPs - there's certainly a fair few veteran MPs out west who would have something to say about that.

So much for Conservative promises to clean up government - It's back to business as usual.

I highly doubt that we would have a conservative majority if this had been announced prior to the election.

Where'd the article come from Jay? You should really post the sources when you quote articles online.

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie Hey Jay, Conservatives aren't going to be any different. It's only a matter of time before the Conservatives will do the same things the Liberals did. I should start counting. It's unfrickenbelievable the amount of criticism dished out at Belinda for her defection to the Liberals, when David Emerson just did it, and was welcommed with open arms, the same open arms the Liberals were bad-mouthed for. There is no acceptable reason that this case it's different, it's not, and it's worse. Jay, DON'T get me wrong (you often mis-judge me and assume too much), I'm glad the Conservatives are in power. AJ

i for one can see the objective reasoning although as i said, due to the nature of past actions by the opposition its a very dumb move.

I can understand wanting complete coast to coast representation. He just did it the wrong way in light of the recent past. So there, my first critism of the new government

Belinda did it to save the party and reward her ass and nothing more.

quote:

Originally posted by nacarter Personally, I'm not that worried about the Emerson defection in the Conservative cabinet - that's just the game - Any party would try to do it... No 'holier than thou' sentaments would change that fact. What's more concerning is the Michael Fortier appointment. Harper has spent the last three years harping about PMO corruption, pork-barreling, influence-peddling, whatever your favourite phrase happens to be. To come in and parachute your Quebec campaign manager into a now much-scrutinzed position is irresponsible and is nothing more than chapter two of PMO cronyism. What's the problem Stephen? Not enough competent women? (I'm sure Diane Ablonczy is having fits out in Alberta) Not enough experienced MPs - there's certainly a fair few veteran MPs out west who would have something to say about that. So much for Conservative promises to clean up government - It's back to business as usual.

He wanted a representative from canada's second largest city. And for the record there is the same percentage of women in this cabinet as there was in the average liberal one. Perhaps if the citizens had elected more women, there would be more to choose from?

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Belinda did it to save the party and reward her ass and nothing more.

It's all about power. period. I guess the only people who are happy with Emerson, are the people who voted for him as a candidate, rather than those who vote for a party. I guess like me. So I'm OK with that, just not OK, with what's been said about Belinda, yet the same sh-t happens. Now if I can find that Harper quote played all day on the radio all day long today.

so no one has much to say about the last act of liberal corruption that cost us half a million dollars and possibly skewed the election?

This is a pretty serious issue IMO

I dunno how much more anti corruption votes the Conservatives could irk out even if this news hit before the elections. I mean, it's not like the Liberals lacked being accused of corruption.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree I dunno how much more anti corruption votes the Conservatives could irk out even if this news hit before the elections. I mean, it's not like the Liberals lacked being accused of corruption.

i think it would have changed things. When people realized the liberals outright lied about this to cover it up they would have dumped them even more than they did.

As i said, somebody needs to go to jail over this cover up.

the election is done...the CPC won.

are you going to cry about them not getting a majority (more Harper's ineffective leadership than this ONE thing being covered up) or are you going to get on his case to follow through on his promised changes (which he's already NOT doing thanks to the "day 1 drama").

If this single item did cost them a majority, it would have been out of a very acute, short-term backlash that occurred right before election day...not because this one event is so horrific that voters would punish the Liberals to the extent of voting in a majority CPC gov't. It's time-senstive, that's it.

It would have been an opportunistic majority...so stop insinuating that the democratic system was abused, because that's just crap (and it's making excuses for Harper and the CPC's inability to secure a majority win amidst all of the other scandal and corruption).

It's time to start judging Harper and CPC...continuing to bash the Liberals isn't pointless, but it's also not improving the country. The people will only stand so long for an incoming gov't that spends it's time pointing out the faults of the previous one.

Ask McGuinty how far he got by constantly complaining about how the outgoing provincial Conservatives supposedly misrepresented the books while himself doing virtually nothing...

if criminal acts were committed then they need to be dealt with. It's that simple.

^^^ would witholding such information be an criminal act...or an unethical one?

(I'm asking...becuase I don't know)

i.e. if it's unethical and Martin/whoever are pulled before a committee, etc. etc. etc., that's great...but it doesn't accomplish much.

if it's illegal to have done so, fine, punish whomever is responsbile.

I still don't think this would have (or should have) meant the difference between a majority/minority win for the CPC...and I don't think it should be a great focal point of the CPC when they've already got their own controversies to address.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT It's time to start judging Harper and CPC...continuing to bash the Liberals isn't pointless, but it's also not improving the country. The people will only stand so long for an incoming gov't that spends it's time pointing out the faults of the previous one.

...and we can't do that until the new government has finished cleaning house, which apparently, they're doing...

Their questions are quite valid...

^^^ they sure are.

I just take issue with someone implying that this single item may have (and if it would have, if it even *should* have) resulted in a majority win for the CPC.

It's would have been an unfortunate, opportunistic majority that occured due to the fact that this info would have been released days before the election.

no one's vote should be cast in the heat of the moment...given that this issue pales in comparision to the other scandals, both in scope and in magnitude, if anyone actually changed their vote because of this, only days before the election, IMHO it would be a "vote of passion" rather than one based upon logic and consideration.

who really wants that (besides the incoming gov't whoever they would be, lol)

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT the election is done...the CPC won. are you going to cry about them not getting a majority (more Harper's ineffective leadership than this ONE thing being covered up)...

LOL ineffective? The only thing standing between Harper and a Majority were 3 Canadian cities that are scared to death of change (I wonder if Vancouver and Montreal also had Liberal mayors trying their damndest to scare their citizens into voting Liberal).

Harper is a more effective leader than Martin could ever dream of being (and that's saying a lot, we all know Martin has quite vivid and powerful dreams). In 4 years he's done what most people said couldn't be done ANY time in the near future. But I guess you could make the argument that Martin's leadership was just MORE ineffective, so touche in advance :P

He brought the PC and Alliance parties together to form a united right, and toppled the most succesfull political party in the Western world. You know why that is? Because, unlike Martin, Harper learns from his mistakes and actually WANTS to make things work, not just spout out empty rhetoric about fixing things (We've upped our funding from 4 billion over 4 years, to 10 billion over 10 years!!! GOOOO LIBERAL!).

The Emerson thing is hypocritical, the Fortier appointment to the senate as well, but that one is supposedly temporary according to Harper (in other words, if he's elected, he'll be removed from the Senate), plus Fortier doesn't get a vote in the commons, he's just in the cabinet helping get things done. I think both ministers will do a fine job, but it's something I'm now keeping an eye on. When the CPC vowed to clean up Government, I was worried about fiscal scandals, not an MP or two switching sides here and there, that shit happens ALL the time.

The smart move by Harper was getting it done and over with RIGHT AWAY. The public and media have very short memories, this will all blow over and within the next month or two, probably won't even register in mosts people's minds as being a problem at all. If nothing else, Harper's a brilliant strategist.

Personally I've never seen anything wrong with MPs switching sides, but it depends on the circumstances. Belinda switched to save the Liberals and for personal gain (give me a cabinet position and I'll save your party!), Emerson was invited over because Harper wanted an experienced Cabinet minister to represent Vancouver (ditto Montreal with the Fortier appointment, Toronto didn't need the same type of treatment, because there are a few GTA representatives that can handle things).

I'm just watching the news too, and I'm getting a HUGE kick out of all the Liberal voters who were more than happy to make excuses for Belinda DEMAND that Emerson step down, and calling this a "mockery of democracy". ROFL, love it when people get a taste of their own medicine!

quote:

Originally posted by Spam I'm just watching the news too, and I'm getting a HUGE kick out of all the Liberal voters who were more than happy to make excuses for Belinda DEMAND that Emerson step down, and calling this a "mockery of democracy". ROFL, love it when people get a taste of their own medicine!

but it seems liberals make more whiney noise. The belinda thing was over within a few days. These losers are planning sit ins!

LOL

I think its time i go do a sit in at belinda's

nice try guys...two wrongs don't make a right...and you're ignoring the over hypocrisy on the part of the CPC here.

if one party rips another for doing something, and it "blows over"...it doesn't follow that they can then turn around and do the same thing and expect no one to say shit.

in fact, it's WORSE that they did it after the fact because they CAMPAIGNED against that type of behaviour, while the Liberals made no apologies about it right from the start.

they both did something shady...but the CPC, by doing it now, is also a hypocrite.

Some Liberals are calling for his resignation, just as people called for Belinda's...more likely, and more reasonable, are the calls for him to give up his seat and have a by-election immediately called where he can run as a CPC.

what's interesting is that the CPC ran THIRD behind the NDP as well...and haven't won that riding for many many years...so while Belinda proved her critics wrong by handily winning her riding as a Liberal, is the CPC worried that Emerson would lose a by-election and make them look stupid?

you're damn right!

both cases are wrong but the difference in reactions is amusing.

The Liberals are making far greater noise about it. SOmebody even called him an idiot.

I do recall that when belinda was called an idiot, accusations of sexism flew.

Aaaah the joys of double standard canada!

again, there SHOULD be a bigger deal about it now.

the Liberals wooed her...made no apologies.

the CPC wooed him, *after* opposing the same behaviour.

I see your "double standard" and raise you with HYPOCRISY

id say theres hypocrisy flowing on both sides of the issue right now.

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