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Mixing Levels (with Logic 5)

Lately been running a limiter on my master bus to keep things smooth and just noticed that when I took it off (bypassed) my levels are at something like +6 when this new tune of mines is at full tilt.

Didnt see this because the limiter was racking everything down to -0db and it doesnt sound like its distorting. So is this a problem ? am I overloading logics internal engine? Should I be pulling my levels down so it doesnt max out my master bus ? maybe even is it highlighting an EQ problem with layers ? humdahumda ....

correction ... limiter is running with a minus value for its ratio so its actually 'expanding' and got the output of the limiter set to -10db so it does not overload the master output going to my soundcard ... boy this is weird, didnt know logics audioengine could handle +6db internally ... or is my flu/cold taking over my mind

I wouldn't recommend putting a limiter on the master bus while producing. Just make sure you don't get above the 0.0 zone on any channel and then put a limiter on the audio track you bounced.

Yep, don't make your mix suit the master limiter; make the master limiter (and that goes for any mastering) suit the mix.

I can't give you any program-specific advice, but you should be staying below 0 dBFS during all stages of production, so if any tracks are clipping on their own, reduce them down and keep the whole mix about 3 dB below full scale. Usually that will mean your kick should be peaking at about -8 dBFS.

thanks for the tips. I now got everything going through bus strips. Kit, Bass, Pads, Leads and have those pulled down by -6db so the master bus isnt overloading

Took a note of the -8 dBFS for kick for future refence, presumiung its the best way to start a new track off ... tnx again

Hm, i always come to an end with a gainer with a setting around -30 db in the mastering chain...

Doesn�t matter.

lol, betchya it scares the shit out of you when u bypass it by accident

therefore i have a limiter at the end ... well before mastering i try to keep levels a bit behind 0 db so the limiter has no "work"

quote:

Originally posted by S-Tune Hm, i always come to an end with a gainer with a setting around -30 db in the mastering chain... Doesn�t matter.

You know a gainer is a device that increases the amplitude of a signal? So you're saying you're reducing the level by 30 dB (increasing by -30)? Or you're using a limiter with a -30 dB threshold? That sounds rediculously low, unless of course your mix is at an extremely low setting too, which I'd advice against. If your mix peaks at -3 dB, a -8 dB threshold is much more appropriate.

quote:

Originally posted by S-Tune therefore i have a limiter at the end ... well before mastering i try to keep levels a bit behind 0 db so the limiter has no "work"

I think you may need to look up the definition on a limiter again. It works on values above the threshold, so it doesn't matter whether your mix peaks at -3 dB or -12 dB (not really advised) or whatever, as the limiter is still doing the same amount of work provided the amount of gain reduction is the same (as it should be anyway, or one will be louder than the other).

Look, i don�t pay attention to levels while creating a song so my subgroups often have more than 0 db... doesn�t matter, because it�s logic-intern!
At the master output it sums up so i have to put a "gainer" in the output chain with a setting of ~ -30 db. So afterwards my signal peaks at about -2 db.

I also have a limiter in the master output, just to be sure that no peaks over 0 db come through - well, you are right, the limiter isn�t working, but it�s just for mixing; mastering comes after bouncing the file with 24 bit!

quote:

Originally posted by S-Tune Look, i don�t pay attention to levels while creating a song so my subgroups often have more than 0 db... doesn�t matter, because it�s logic-intern! At the master output it sums up so i have to put a "gainer" in the output chain with a setting of ~ -30 db. So afterwards my signal peaks at about -2 db. I also have a limiter in the master output, just to be sure that no peaks over 0 db come through - well, you are right, the limiter isn�t working, but it�s just for mixing; mastering comes after bouncing the file with 24 bit!

OK, I admit I have no experience with Logic, but having to pull the master down by 30 dB just doesn't sound right. But, if it works for you...

Limiter isn't working? Hmm, that's not what I was getting at. I'm just saying that you set the limiter threshold based on the input sound, and you obviously want to make it work as much as is necessary for the given audio, as indicated by the gain reduction meter. Again though, you really don't want to use a limiter while mixing, as it colours the sound of the output. From what I understand though, your mix is peaking at -2 dB, in which case, yes, the limiter isn't working if the threshold is set to 0.0 dB, but it's possibly still applying dither...

Ah, and I see what you mean with the limiter not "working" now.

quote:

Originally posted by S-Tune Look, i don�t pay attention to levels while creating a song so my subgroups often have more than 0 db... doesn�t matter, because it�s logic-intern! At the master output it sums up so i have to put a "gainer" in the output chain with a setting of ~ -30 db. So afterwards my signal peaks at about -2 db. I also have a limiter in the master output, just to be sure that no peaks over 0 db come through - well, you are right, the limiter isn�t working, but it�s just for mixing; mastering comes after bouncing the file with 24 bit!

why don't you try to get the right settings on the global mix
Like they said here : it seems silly decrease the gain with a plugin if you can set the right levels in the beginning. I suppose there are some channels in logic clipping, which gives you overdrive. It might not be very audible in the beginning but it's there whenever you go above 0.0.

@Atlantis-AR: Yes, that�s what i tried to explain, i want my limiter not to have an influence on the sound!

@DeZmA: As i know, Logic works intern with 32 bit-floating point and so i think that it doesn�t influence the sound when i�m working Logic-intern with more than 0 db...
My bounced file has at the end around -3 db.

Cheers S-Tune

yeah, logic seems to sum its busses up in a weird way, layer two of the same kicks together and it comes up megaplosive, not complaining abnout a 32bit engine tho

tnx for the feedback peeps

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