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-- anyone else hate it when dj's insist on ruining track by scratching and efx overkill?

anyone else hate it when dj's insist on ruining track by scratching and efx overkill?

is it just me? or does anyone else find scratching and annoying overuse of efx buttons a bit anoying in a club?

i have always thought that scratching was something that should be kept within the hip/hop dj world.. where bpms often used to flutter due to live percussion and the human aspect of its production..

why is it that so many people love that whole scratching deal? if a dj is playing a nice track, the last thing i want to hear is a bloddy scratching noise over the top ruining how the track was meant to sound..

its almost like the dj has to do this to make him look like he/she is doing somthing.. but i think it is the dj's role to chose the right tunes and mix them smoothly. and nowadays it is becoming more and more important to be playing your own music. if i see a dj like fred baker i look forward to high energy sets with clean mixing and often exclusive tracks he has made for his sets..

this type of dj far outweighs the skills of 'organ donors' and other 'circus' dj's..

i await the flaming and look forward to hearing others views

Well scratching in hip hop sounds really sweet, but I've never heard a dance music DJ scratch... I have to say, scratching and melodic trance is something I can not see working together.

one word ---> halliwell

quote:

Originally posted by DFOP04 one word ---> halliwell

i have only seen him once and tbh i thought his tune selection was pretty dull.. i didnt know what all the hype was about. it was like he was making up for boring tunes by doing the occasional cdj scratch..

I'm guessing Zabiela would be your worst nightmare then?

I disagree.
Since when is creativity bad?
There is pleny of room for messing about with effects and scratching in EDM. Maybe not in trance sets, but for house, prog and breaks it works fine.

It will of course sound like shit if the dj isn't good at this type of thing.

This past Friday a buddy of mine was djing at my friends house. He is a hip-hop dj but I gave him a couple cd's I had with some trance/progressive/techno on it. He was mixing and scratching it in his set and it was VERY fucking good. Just thought I'd throw that in there because I suppose it depends on the circumstances.

yes, all a dj should be is an aggrandized juke box. That's it. Playing tracks back to back as well as possible not altering anything about a track ever. Nothing more. Ever.

thing is its stereotypical that djs scratch over the likes of hip hop and rap, because thats what everyone expects, with edm its different, of course theres nothing wrong with it, its just we are all used to it being over the top of hip hop etc so thats why theres always the argument that it should be left alone to that culture.

but i do have to say i heard a dan bailey (slinky/radio 1) mix cd a while back with him scratching the life out of hydra affinity and cygnus x - superstring and it ruined the whole thing.

dfop

quote:

Originally posted by sirhiss I disagree. Since when is creativity bad? There is pleny of room for messing about with effects and scratching in EDM. Maybe not in trance sets, but for house, prog and breaks it works fine. It will of course sound like shit if the dj isn't good at this type of thing.

I don't think Rich was implying that creativity was bad but what we have to remember is that there can be a fine line between something being a gimmick and something being creative.
Just because something is creative it doesn't always mean it's good.
Just because something's technically hard to perform, it doesn't mean it sounds great.

The thing to remember about scratching is that you have to be very good at it for it actually to sound great. When most people do it it actually sounds wank.


Rich,
With regards to Halliwell, you are not the first person to say that his tune selection has gotten a bit boring.
I have warmed up for him or closed a night with him on the bill quite a few times and although he is a top bloke and gives it 100% in his performances there isn't the same volume of quality tunes available that there was 4 years ago that suits the style he has.

Cheers
Nem

Overkill/unnecessary efx and scratching are definitely annoying, but if you want a reference point for guys who can do it, and do it well, beyond Eddie, may I suggest Donald Glaude and James Zabiela. Both these guys incorporate a good amount of scratching (And EFX in Zabiela's case) over some sick house.

If it's done proper, it adds an unlimited amount of depth to the music being played. If it's being done just for the sake of "doing something," it's generally, in my experience, terrible.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 I don't think Rich was implying that creativity was bad but what we have to remember is that there can be a fine line between something being a gimmick and something being creative.

richg101 wrote

quote:

its almost like the dj has to do this to make him look like he/she is doing somthing.. but i think it is the dj's role to chose the right tunes and mix them smoothly. and nowadays it is becoming more and more important to be playing your own music. if i see a dj like fred baker i look forward to high energy sets with clean mixing and often exclusive tracks he has made for his sets..

Sounds to me like thats exactly what he's saying. He doesnt like any manipulation of the song, and thinks djs should concentrate on mixing cleanly. To me that not being creative.

quote:

Just because something is creative it doesn't always mean it's good. Just because something's technically hard to perform, it doesn't mean it sounds great. The thing to remember about scratching is that you have to be very good at it for it actually to sound great. When most people do it it actually sounds wank.

Like I said, It'll sound like shit unless the guy knows what he's doing...

Re: anyone else hate it when dj's insist on ruining track by scratching and efx overkill?

quote:

Originally posted by richg101 is it just me? or does anyone else find scratching and annoying overuse of efx buttons a bit anoying in a club? i have always thought that scratching was something that should be kept within the hip/hop dj world.. where bpms often used to flutter due to live percussion and the human aspect of its production.. why is it that so many people love that whole scratching deal? if a dj is playing a nice track, the last thing i want to hear is a bloddy scratching noise over the top ruining how the track was meant to sound.. its almost like the dj has to do this to make him look like he/she is doing somthing.. but i think it is the dj's role to chose the right tunes and mix them smoothly. and nowadays it is becoming more and more important to be playing your own music. if i see a dj like fred baker i look forward to high energy sets with clean mixing and often exclusive tracks he has made for his sets.. this type of dj far outweighs the skills of 'organ donors' and other 'circus' dj's.. i await the flaming and look forward to hearing others views

After listening to some of your tracks on your website, I have a feeling the reason you don't like scratching is because the type of electronic music you listen to/produce/prefer isn't meant to be scratched over.

Now, I'm not saying there's any particular type of electronic music that is inherently made for scratching but some does sound better than others. House, electro, breaks, and some techy genres, for example, are much more appropriate than trance or tech trance. Songs of the former genres have beat structures, tempos, and sequencing that all work together to create stretches in the tracks that just beg for a little scratch action. Also, these tracks generally have much more subdued melodies than trancey stuff so you don't get clashing between the melody and the scratch which always sounds like crap. This is probably what you would consider "ruining how the track was meant to sound."

You should really check out some of Zabiela's earlier stuff - 2002 or 2003 - when he used to do pretty simple, well timed scratches. He doesn't scratch as much these days but is still a good example of what scratching can add to an edm set.

Re: anyone else hate it when dj's insist on ruining track by scratching and efx overkill?

quote:

Originally posted by richg101 is it just me? or does anyone else find scratching and annoying overuse of efx buttons a bit anoying in a club?

highly!

quote:

why is it that so many people love that whole scratching deal? if a dj is playing a nice track, the last thing i want to hear is a bloddy scratching noise over the top ruining how the track was meant to sound..

scratching has two realities...

a) your too pathetic of a DJ to pull of a classy trick that actually integrates with the mix, so you practice jerking off... or maybe you just wish you could be as cool as that rap/hiphop fag who knows how to scratch, whine, and talk about the ghetto reality he's too chickenshit to pull himself out of?

b) being too pathetic a listener, you can't hear the other subtle tricks the DJ is throwing in or the repeated trainwrecks, so you concentrate on the scratching. it's the only thing that translates from DJ hand movement to your ears, so it's the coolest thing in the world!

either way, both are shortbus-worthy.

quote:

its almost like the dj has to do this to make him look like he/she is doing somthing..

as usual, when all else fails.. pretend!

Nothing wrong with scratching.

Much wrong with scratching badly.

I agree with this to an extent... I think its more so to point out the fact that some DJ's just do it too much and it sounds terrible and try to look "hardcore as" jumping around and having a scratch or banging away at there efx box. But I will admit that when done with the right timing and style scratching does sound quite awesome... you need the right tracks of course. I mean I scratch occasionally but there is not really much of a chance when you mix techno... Plenty of room for effects though. Just not too much

Anyway there is one DJ that i have heard scratch to techno that acctually sounds good named "the pusher!"

Re: Re: anyone else hate it when dj's insist on ruining track by scratching and efx overkill?

quote:

Originally posted by MERiDiAN5i2 highly! scratching has two realities... a) your too pathetic of a DJ to pull of a classy trick that actually integrates with the mix, so you practice jerking off... or maybe you just wish you could be as cool as that rap/hiphop fag who knows how to scratch, whine, and talk about the ghetto reality he's too chickenshit to pull himself out of? b) being too pathetic a listener, you can't hear the other subtle tricks the DJ is throwing in or the repeated trainwrecks, so you concentrate on the scratching. it's the only thing that translates from DJ hand movement to your ears, so it's the coolest thing in the world! either way, both are shortbus-worthy. as usual, when all else fails.. pretend!

Pretty bitter. You must have hurt yourself in a scratch accident...

a) I'd be interested in hearing what classy dj tricks you are talking about that integrate so well into a mix. A good scratch flows with a mix and can't be pulled off by any "pathetic dj". Hmm.. maybe I'm just a hiphop ghetto chickenshit sympathizer...

b)I do think it's cool when a dj scratches - but what really makes it special is when he or she is scratching at one of those moment's that really benefits from the extra energy a good scratch brings to a mix; ie. during the build of a track or a breakdown transitional sequence. Last I checked, every hand movement a dj makes on a mixer or platter translates into something audible but maybe that's too subtle for you...

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RJT Overkill/unnecessary efx and scratching are definitely annoying, but if you want a reference point for guys who can do it, and do it well, beyond Eddie, may I suggest Donald Glaude and James Zabiela. Both these guys incorporate a good amount of scratching (And EFX in Zabiela's case) over some sick house. If it's done proper, it adds an unlimited amount of depth to the music being played. If it's being done just for the sake of "doing something," it's generally, in my experience, terrible.

Exactly.

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