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Short-Term Memory and Trance

It's sort of struck me in the last year or so just how much good material is becoming forgotten, even by longtime scenesters. I spin a lot of older progressive trance, and it's surprising to me not only how easily most of it passes in the current club market, but that no one really knows most of the productions. Is this merely that today's in-the-know "veterans" need not have started before '99, and never bother to look to older production? Or is it that people are so caught up in new trends that they leave their old fields of knowledge behind?

Isn't it rather tragic that not many people seem to have the deep, deep knowledge of a single dance music genre than one might expect? Why is this the case?

Also, is the same situation true of even older dance music genres? Are most househeads ignorant of fifteen years of their genre, and techno snobs ten? I have to wonder if this is something particular to trance, or common to dance music generally, or perhaps something to all music in general. But the last option seems unlikely to me: most every genre has its devoted experts. Who and where are the trance guardians? Certainly not me. DJ Irish?

Yeah, it kind of pisses me off how some DJs nowdays, the big names for example, Tijs, PvD, Ferry, or other DJs for that matter, never play classics anymore, and the only ones they usuall play are their own productions. I dont get it, most stuff nowdays arent great and if people liked it back then, what makes them think they will not now. Although I didnt have the chance to listen to most of the tracks from 99, and I always listen to Oakies World Tour from 99, or Tijs Magik series, and I some of these djs would take the time and play those great tunes of that area.

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Originally posted by Kapedan Yeah, it kind of pisses me off how some DJs nowdays, the big names for example, Tijs, PvD, Ferry, or other DJs for that matter, never play classics anymore, and the only ones they usuall play are their own productions. I dont get it, most stuff nowdays arent great and if people liked it back then, what makes them think they will not now. Although I didnt have the chance to listen to most of the tracks from 99, and I always listen to Oakies World Tour from 99, or Tijs Magik series, and I some of these djs would take the time and play those great tunes of that area.

But I'm not really talking about the usual classics. There's so much great second-tier material from years past that no one seems to even recognize anymore, much less play. Shouldn't trance and progressive have memory among a certain elite? At least longtime DJs? I don't really see many around today.

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Originally posted by Cobalt But I'm not really talking about the usual classics. There's so much great second-tier material from years past that no one seems to even recognize anymore.

Ah ok, nevermind then .

Since the late 90's trance has been shallow music, attracting shallow-minded people, people who didn't pay attention to trance in its previous form, and people who most especially wouldn't take the time to look deeper than what they were shown by DJ superstar van whateverfold or the radio or wherever they heard their first trance music. Real trance classics, say from 1990 to 1996, are relatively hard to find, and someone who wasn't there at the time would have to do a considerable amount of personal research to find them. Not that most would appreciate it if they did take the time anyway.

It's true for House and Techno, but to a lesser extent. Heck, Frankie Knuckles and Juan Atkins are still DJing and/or making music today. They aren't without their influence even today, and all you have to do is type their names into google to find out what's up. You have a lot of House and Techno DJ's who still play classics from 1985-present. But if you consider Eurodance as House for example, i'd say most of those fans don't know much about the history of House classics. I'd also say that a lot of Schranz fans and fans of European Techno wouldn't know very much about classic techno either. But Funky/Disco house and Detroit Techno are homages to the past because of their inherent sounds. They're true to their roots, so to speak. There really is no need for Techno and House to remember their roots implicitly, since new varieties are good and possibly even better than the old.

Of all dance genres, Electro is the one with least ignorance of its own past. It seems almost as if every other new Electro record samples from 80's Electro tracks. You also have a lot of Electro DJ's who play the classics as well. For over thirty years, the basic sound hasn't changed. It's all funky robot music, suitable for popping and locking and breakdancing, more likely than not built upon a funky programmed breakbeat. Not to mention it seems as though 80's artists are coming back out of the woodworks now and releasing stuff on labels that are already established in making the new. You can rest assured they haven't forgotten what they made.

The first house rekkid and the first techno rekkid were released in the same year...where do you get the five year difference?

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Originally posted by renttresnor The first house rekkid and the first techno rekkid were released in the same year...where do you get the five year difference?

I'm just guesstimating; I know there are divergent opinions on the subject. I generally place the origins of house in the last years of disco, around the late 70s of I Feel Love, not in the later Chicago movement. Techno had murmurs in the early 80s, but I don't really consider it to have started until around Techno City in 1984. I know that some on this board, more knowledgeable than I, have debated the first techno records before. I'm open to being wrong, but I've usually considered house to be a bit older than techno in actuality, though not in name.

Back on topic, I sure wish that progressive house and trance carried as coherent a tradition as house or techno. It's such a pain to label myself, because "trance", "progressive house", "progressive trance", and "progressive" have all meant different things at different times, often in opposition to other parts of their history.

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Originally posted by renttresnor Since the late 90's trance has been shallow music, attracting shallow-minded people, people who didn't pay attention to trance in its previous form, and people who most especially wouldn't take the time to look deeper than what they were shown by DJ superstar van whateverfold or the radio or wherever they heard their first trance music. Real trance classics, say from 1990 to 1996, are relatively hard to find, and someone who wasn't there at the time would have to do a considerable amount of personal research to find them. Not that most would appreciate it if they did take the time anyway. It's true for House and Techno, but to a lesser extent. Heck, Frankie Knuckles and Juan Atkins are still DJing and/or making music today. They aren't without their influence even today, and all you have to do is type their names into google to find out what's up. You have a lot of House and Techno DJ's who still play classics from 1985-present. But if you consider Eurodance as House for example, i'd say most of those fans don't know much about the history of House classics. I'd also say that a lot of Schranz fans and fans of European Techno wouldn't know very much about classic techno either. But Funky/Disco house and Detroit Techno are homages to the past because of their inherent sounds. They're true to their roots, so to speak. There really is no need for Techno and House to remember their roots implicitly, since new varieties are good and possibly even better than the old. Of all dance genres, Electro is the one with least ignorance of its own past. It seems almost as if every other new Electro record samples from 80's Electro tracks. You also have a lot of Electro DJ's who play the classics as well. For over thirty years, the basic sound hasn't changed. It's all funky robot music, suitable for popping and locking and breakdancing, more likely than not built upon a funky programmed breakbeat. Not to mention it seems as though 80's artists are coming back out of the woodworks now and releasing stuff on labels that are already established in making the new. You can rest assured they haven't forgotten what they made. The first house rekkid and the first techno rekkid were released in the same year...where do you get the five year difference?

Concluded that you're an idiot after the first sentence and didn't read the rest

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Originally posted by Numidia Concluded that you're an idiot after the first sentence and didn't read the rest

Concluded that you, indeed, are one of the shallow-minded people of whom this guy speaks.

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Originally posted by renttresnor Since the late 90's trance has been shallow music, attracting shallow-minded people, people who didn't pay attention to trance in its previous form, and people who most especially wouldn't take the time to look deeper than what they were shown by DJ superstar van whateverfold or the radio or wherever they heard their first trance music.

I will say, however that this is a gross oversimplification, if astute. There is certainly plenty of deep, hypnotic music out there, and plenty of newcomers willing to learn about trance's roots. As far as the mainstream goes, though, yes, you're very right; there are many who listen to trance these days that neither know of, nor care for trance's roots, and the DJ's do little to educate them.

I think, to an extent, it's related to the enormous difference in sound between old trance and modern "pop" trance. There's the occasional song that would work in a transition either way, but for the most part, a transition like that would be jarring.

i don't know about other people, but i take a lot of pride in the music i research and find. i'm always looking for music across all genres sometimes back into the 70's. i definitely know what you mean cobalt. i really appreciate dj's like zabiela who do seem to like to use some of the older great not so well known tunes. just the other day i got a set by him and he was playing a great tune from 1996...or 1995 in another recent set. most people probably wouldn't even notice and when he played that track from 1995 here in Denver he rocked it. i know most people in the club wouldn't even be able to tell the difference...so what keeps dj's from doing more of that?

i always thought it was a better thing to spin something that's new and good that no one really knows of or even older things no one really knows of. i understand the whole thing about playing classics, but what's with bring fresh stuff that's good and you haven't heard.

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Originally posted by butterball i always thought it was a better thing to spin something that's new and good that no one really knows of or even older things no one really knows of. i understand the whole thing about playing classics, but what's with bring fresh stuff that's good and you haven't heard.

i mean what's wrong with*

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Originally posted by Kapedan Yeah, it kind of pisses me off how some DJs nowdays, the big names for example, Tijs, PvD, Ferry, or other DJs for that matter, never play classics anymore, and the only ones they usuall play are their own productions

tiesto played jam & spoon - odyssey to anyoona at his heineken concert thing last year, was quite pleasant to hear. but isn't as common a thing as i'd like


to be honest, the main thing putting me off older trance (say pre-98) is the production quality. the main thing i hate about mixing classics is trying to beatmatch the soft, muted kickdrums (which almost always ends up in a mess) or trying to judge the levels of tracks with dodgy treble/bass. most classics sound horribly out of place when mixed with new stuff too, because of this. maybe i'm too producer/dj-orientated since i've not seen many other people with this view, but alas

Still sad to say that the bottom line of all "superdj's" is not to play anything else than the "hottest new tracks".. Everytime someone drops a classic nowadays, is considered as a "bad function"
it Suckzz..
Ps. Good thread

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Originally posted by isoterra the main thing i hate about mixing classics is trying to beatmatch the soft, muted kickdrums (which almost always ends up in a mess) or trying to judge the levels of tracks with dodgy treble/bass. most classics sound horribly out of place when mixed with new stuff too, because of this. maybe i'm too producer/dj-orientated since i've not seen many other people with this view, but alas

This is exactly what I'm talking about. A lot of the sounds that dominated early trance (the low/muted kick, the general lack of compression) are simply uncompatible with modern trance. I actually think there may be some psy tracks for which it works, but I'm no dj, so I can't judge.

Re: Short-Term Memory and Trance

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt It's sort of struck me in the last year or so just how much good material is becoming forgotten, even by longtime scenesters. I spin a lot of older progressive trance, and it's surprising to me not only how easily most of it passes in the current club market, but that no one really knows most of the productions. Is this merely that today's in-the-know "veterans" need not have started before '99, and never bother to look to older production? Or is it that people are so caught up in new trends that they leave their old fields of knowledge behind? Isn't it rather tragic that not many people seem to have the deep, deep knowledge of a single dance music genre than one might expect? Why is this the case?

i was gonna start a thread bout practically the same thing, the fact that djs very rarely throw older tunes into their sets - it seems to be whoever can play the newer tracks is better. when im doing sets, i try and play good music end of story. if an older track is good, i will play it, regardless of when it was made/released. good music is good music at the end of the day, whether it be fresh of the shelves or sitting in your collection for a couple of years. i dont even think the older tunes should have to be considered as 'classics' in order to be accepted in a new set but that seems to be the way it has gone. i suppose its like everything else but id love to see some of the more weel-known djs throwing in a few older tunes in to their sets.

good thread by the way

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