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Posted by nutsan on Mar-22-2006 23:38:

FX loop issues

ok as some of u may know im looking for a new mixer that can accomodate my kaoss pad with an fx loop and have been shocked in the number of mixers that dont have this function, and how mixers with effects (apart from the big boys)dont support this feature either.

this got me thinking?

could there be a simple way of taking a mixer that doesnt have an fx loop and use the external fx unit with it. i know i can put the master straight in to the unit but there are issues with levels. but also id like to be able to select the channel i want to put effects on.

obviously the simpler the better! im gonna go contemplate this and draw up sum ideas but if any of u can think of idea please let me know!

cheers!

Posted by nutsan on Mar-23-2006 00:10:

ok ive come up with a few ideas which i will share with you. but i need other peoples points of views so i havnt missed anything.

excuse the bad paint drawings

ok idea 1 -

this one is quite complex and uses doublers on the inputs and the out puts of the mixer. it would use sumthing similar to this as the phono selecter

the only issue i can see here is a possible phasing issue once the signal comes back into the mixer.

any 1 got any thoughts on this?

idea 2 -

simpler than idea 1 but uses the same feature on sum mixers with effects as the channels that are selected in the cue are sent to the fx unit. id need to split the cue tho so i culd also use my head fones.

the problems i can c with this are again phasing issues but also the fact that once the cue is in use for the effects u cant select any other channel to listen to.

any 1 got any thoughts on this 1?

i know ive kinda answered my own question but id like people opinions on them and also if they have any additions or ideas of their own that could help!

Thanx alot!

Posted by don_q on Mar-23-2006 06:16:

chk old eclers...got what (i think) you need.

Posted by nutsan on Mar-23-2006 11:12:

well im thinking about gettin an ecler i was just considering other options. i find it annoying that alot mixers don't support this feature, which is quite simple.

so was just drawing up ideas for using mixers that don't use this feature.

Posted by don_q on Mar-23-2006 16:23:

Eclers make it easier

but anyway I use a setup similar to idea2: mixer send effect to KP, but instead of back to mixer via mix input, I use a spare channel. On the KP I have it set for FX loop.

Posted by nutsan on Mar-23-2006 18:36:

cool. wot ecler u got then? i was thinkin of gettin one to start with. and il probably end up doin so. i want sumthin that will last me.

Posted by don_q on Mar-24-2006 04:11:

for the idea I mentioned any mixer with efx send will work; which many have.

I got the smacpro40 for a close to 2 years. really happy with it.

Posted by nutsan on Mar-24-2006 11:55:

im quite aware that any mixer with an fx send will do this. my point was that very few mixers have this feature, especially with internal effects too. so i was looking at alternatives to the conventional fx send if i didnt get a mixer with this feature.

im thinkin of gettin an ecler nuo2.

Posted by skip on Jun-21-2007 15:24:

my problem isn't the same as the thread starter's, but it's an fx loop problem, so i decided to post it here.

here's the deal:

i got a soundbite xl sampler and a omnitronic db-100 vu meter today. i decided that i want to plug them on my fx loop, not on the headphone jack like advised on the soundbite manual.
so now i have cables going from my effects send to the db meter and from there to the soundbite and from the soundbite to the middle channel of my mixer (mainly because i didn't have enough cables to plug it in to the effects recieve).
my mixer is a vestax pcv-175 rotary btw. now everything works like a charm if i have sound coming out of the master output. if i want to send some channel on the efx loop i need to have its fader up (on in my case the rotary knob on 10). is this normal? and if it is normal then what the hell is the point of the effects loop anyway if it's going to play what's coming out of the master anyway?
i'm seriously feeling dumb here. when i flip the switches of the efx selectors on the channels to "in" it sends sound to the fx loop, if i flip them the "out" it doesn't. and it only sends sound from channels that are audible on the master out (ie rotary knob on southeast, fader up).

edit: the reason i got the vu meter was because my mixer only has meters for the master and i hate that on some occasions when i want to bring something in sharply.

Posted by nutsan on Jun-21-2007 16:56:

yeah its only meant to send the faders that are up, i'm pretty sure of that. so you select the channel you want to effect using the selectors.

if you want to have it so you don't have to put the fadersup then you'll have to use the heaphones and pfl.

alternatively if all you wanna do is pfl the effect the you could spilt the return into a spare channel and use its pfl to listen to the effect before hand. the just turn up the return knob and there you can use it as before.

don't think i made sense there

Posted by skip on Jun-21-2007 17:16:

ah crap! i really don't get the point of an efx loops then. what if i would want to send something to an effect unit and only play back the effected sound and not the original sound at all. that would be impossible then.
it doesn't really make any sense to me. also does the efx loop on every mixer work the same? if i were to upgrade to a empath rotary or a xone:92 rotary, would i get them to work the way i want?

Posted by BOOsTER on Jun-21-2007 17:23:

quote:
Originally posted by skip
ah crap! i really don't get the point of an efx loops then. what if i would want to send something to an effect unit and only play back the effected sound and not the original sound at all. that would be impossible then.

nah...lets say you have channel 1 playing...and you want to play only the return track (100% wet signal)...you just cut channel 1 fader down...and slam the return's track fader up...

Posted by nutsan on Jun-21-2007 17:25:

booster beat me to it. but yeah thats how i get around it. using the pfl and headphones would stop the master coming through.

Posted by skip on Jun-21-2007 17:28:

quote:
Originally posted by BOOsTER
nah...lets say you have channel 1 playing...and you want to play only the return track (100% wet signal)...you just cut channel 1 fader down...and slam the return's track fader up...

but then no signal is being sent to the efx unit and thus nothing is being put out from it which results in no sound at all. or have i understood the fx loop thing totally wrong?

Posted by BOOsTER on Jun-21-2007 17:31:

signal should be sent regardless of the fader setting...

like...if you use the headphone jack for sends...then you still have signal even if the fader is down...

Posted by skip on Jun-21-2007 17:42:

quote:
Originally posted by BOOsTER
signal should be sent regardless of the fader setting...

like...if you use the headphone jack for sends...then you still have signal even if the fader is down...

yes, but my problem here is that the signal is not being sent when the fader is down. and i'm asking if that is normal. also using the headphone output doesn't seem to work very well as the output from the soundbite is way too silent then (i'm saying this after just quickly trying to use it with the headphone out).

Posted by BOOsTER on Jun-21-2007 19:06:

I bet it should work...maybe if you are using the headphone jack you need to press cue on the channel? because if you cue you should hear the track even when the fader is down...and be able to control volume with headphones volume knob...

not sure, though...

you might want to ask some other guys here

Posted by skip on Jun-22-2007 03:35:

using the headphone out the soundbite works, it's just that i have to crank it up so much that i can't listen thru the headphones anymore if i want the sampled signal to be loud enough.
using the efx loop i haven't got it to work at all.
also i haven't got the vu meter to work how i want. i'd want it to measure the amplitude of the signals coming to each channel after the gain and before the fader (or rotary knob) and that seems to work only on the headphone cue and the signal from that isn't loud enough for the vu meter.

Posted by mhinnen on Jun-22-2007 04:07:

http://www.electronicsbonanza.com/c...idProduct=11902

lol

Posted by skip on Jun-23-2007 15:13:

quote:
Originally posted by mhinnen
http://www.electronicsbonanza.com/c...idProduct=11902

lol

?

and if anyone knows how fx loops work and if i can get rid of my problem with a new mixer (xone:92 rotary most likely would be the only one i'd be willing to invest in) then i'd like to hear it.