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Kick/Bassline Help

Previous Sample (DO NOT RIGHT CLICK)

Updated Sample (DO NOT RIGHT CLICK)

I hope 3 is my lucky number...
Third Sample (no right clickie)

Does the kick match the bassline? I've been like becoming insane by looking for kicks to match this. If only someone would post an airwavish kick....

*edit* i've done some eq on the bassline...trying something new...tell me if there's enough low end and the kick is strong enough... thanks a lot guys!

You read airwave's kick tutorial on trance.nu?

IMO the kick sounds weak and over powered by the bass... unless I turn my speakers up really lound.. then I can't tell. I need studio monitors =/

you should check out the levels, make the kick and bass blend better. i'm pretty sure you can do that with this kick too, just use some eq & compression, and you'll be there.

Yeah, the kick sounds a bit weak. I'd suggest adding sidechain compression to the bassline (triggered by the kick) to get the kick to stand out more.

The kick could be a bit snappier, I suppose, to match with the bass line. The bass line could also be a little less powerful in the midrange, with a bit more power lower down.

These are nitpicks, though. It sounds fine to me.

To be honest with you it doesnt sound that bad at all. I think it sounds great overall. Maybe just add some compression to the kick to make it more punchy. You can also add a second kick or even third kick and layer them. I know what you mean by going insane looking for the perfect kick, but instead use what you have and layer them,EQ,Compress. I can always make you a kick and send it to you if you want, but thats no fun. on trance.nu there is a thread explaining layer kicks and eqing them i will post the link soon.


*edit* http://trance.nu/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29373&sid=a4bfeb6865d832ebb52d2247369f7b84

like this one m8, hope you finish it

Hmmm I've just learned compression , so it makes things stronger. But here's my new question. I'm not sure if I should have the kick fill in the lows and the basslines the mid/lows. I have a lower bassline runnign but it just gets muddy. Do all low basses have to be round and lack presence? Can't you get a distinct sound out of a low bassline?

quote:

Originally posted by azndragon0613 Do all low basses have to be round and lack presence? Can't you get a distinct sound out of a low bassline?

Part of the problem is the amount of time it takes for a low tone to be recognizeable as a note at all. I imagine the note would have to cycle for more than a period for the ear to pick it up, and with low range notes, that can be as long as one twentieth of a second. A sixteenth note at 140 BPM is 1/37th of a second, more or less. That means that all tones under 37 Hz can't possibly be well-defined without losing tonality. The faster you go, the harder it is to define your low end well.

you could have a deep off beat sub bass in there, i listened on other speakers and the kick is definatly strong enough.

ok guys...i'm seriously about to like give this whole thing up...my ears are banging from hearing the same tweaks again and again....

i know the sample probably has a lot of mids right now but unfortunatley i want presence/clarity and that comes only in the 250-800 hz range...might toss the bassline but i think the second sample hits things better? Do i still need a lower bassline? Thanks guys!

i wouldn't toss that bass line...i like the sound of it.
i'm not at my own station so i can't give ya a final word. sounds okay for now on these desktop speakers. (@ home i run everything thru an amp, two 15s).
you could try & eliminate the "problem frequencies" that occur between kicks & bass. (i just learned this recently myself, but not thru trial & error so i guess i cheated). you're basically eq'in each channel so certain frequencies from the other can cut thru the mix more clearly. as i'm not at my own computer you'll have to check back tomorrow - i'll post again. hopefully this'll give you the clarity your lookin for.
also, you could take sean's advise & try sidechaining the bass.

lower bass line? yeah...your "main synth" used for the bass - which gives your bass it's characteristic, could have a low shelf. then use another bass w/ little characteric w/ high shelf in the same range for your sub.
maybe use soundforge or a similar program w/ a FM synthesis feature to create your sub...then you'd have to know what frequency your root note is at, i.e. 55hz = A, etc. (http://www.wdv.com/Eye/SndN2Grfx/KeyMap.html)
i'm pretty sure the reason you're lacking "umph" in your sub bass is your going below your speakers frequency range (?). so unless your mastering w/ monitors you might not want to try & push too low as you'll be unsure of the final result (like low low bass drops, etc.)
if you spent enough $ on a sound system you can make 15hz bump like a mf.

i don't know what genre you have in mind...but from the way your synths are i'm thinking your kick's level ok in relation to the other channels. (melodic trance? i'm guessing here).

quote:

Originally posted by azndragon0613 ok guys...i'm seriously about to like give this whole thing up...my ears are banging from hearing the same tweaks again and again.... i know the sample probably has a lot of mids right now but unfortunatley i want presence/clarity and that comes only in the 250-800 hz range...might toss the bassline but i think the second sample hits things better? Do i still need a lower bassline? Thanks guys!

Seriously, don't get in a fuss over this. The bassline is fine.

These comments are just nitpicks, and when it comes to mixing, my view is that you can't be too picky. Duke Ellington said, "If it sounds good and feels good, it is good." That bassline fits the bill.

ok so...i feel this worked for me.
on your kick...cut 93 hz by about 2db. 850 hz by about 5 db. 2khz by about 1db. & 6800hz by about 4db.
on you bass cut 62 hz by 5 db. 133 hz by 14db. 191 hz by 10db. & 90 hz by 15db.
also...if you use these try & keep the bands narrow so fewer neighboring freq are effected.

i also listened to your samples...they did sound good. i don't feel your bass is lacking much.
as a matter of preference...i'd stick w/ the key of your first sample. but that's just me.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ 5NAK3 ok so...i feel this worked for me. on your kick...cut 93 hz by about 2db. 850 hz by about 5 db. 2khz by about 1db. & 6800hz by about 4db. on you bass cut 62 hz by 5 db. 133 hz by 14db. 191 hz by 10db. & 90 hz by 15db. also...if you use these try & keep the bands narrow so fewer neighboring freq are effected.

Don't do this. Just because those frequencies worked for that specific song doesn't mean they'll work for this one. EQing is a process of trial and error, even for the pros. They're just more efficient with their trials.

Old sample sounds alot like Perpetuos Dreamer - The Sound Of Goodbye.

Sounds good to me though...

christ...

ok let me clarify...i stated this worked for me - based on the samples i used.
of course all samples are not created equal & therefore when implementing technical eq'in you must keep in mind that there will be a variance in exactly where those problem freq lie and to what degree must you cut those freq will also vary.

Damn guys, thanks for all the help. I've worked on the bassline a lot and I've managed to get things running a bit more smoothly. It really just came down to listening to some songs, eqing and getting a feel for a good thumper. I've uploaded a refurbished sample. It has a mid and with a much better low. Looking for kind of a progressive/uplifting style. Works for me! Hope it's better. Thanks again everyone!

Personally, my favorite of the bunch is the second try. The third try, the bass didn't have enough prescence. Sure, there was some muddy frequencies in there, but you shouldn't pay attention to them too much. Just take a break, come back after 15 minutes, drop some freqs and turn up the volume... then, finish the rest of the track.

I for one, have spent WAYYYYYYY too much time doing exactly what you are doing: making trance loops and giving up before the project is completed. Then again... practice does make perfect, and these are kindof like "drills" if you ask me. Really, where is the balance in production?

this is sounding pretty good. what you using to create your bassline?

I'm using 3xosc and wasp only. Thanks for the comments guys. I'm just going to make the song. See you in a week ;-)

I wanna know how you are using these synths, i hate you

Dude, this all sounds really nice.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this what with all the comments and all but if I had to pick anything out and it is purely a question of taste, is that the kick sound is wrong for the song and probably at the very least has a tail that's too long.

As I said, in my opinion it doesn't fit the rest of the track. It seems to slop along with the rest of the track and has no punch.

When it comes to frequencies from bass and kick in trance, quite often you find yourself in a trade off position on which one to tame more. I think if you picked a similar kick but with a bit more definition and perhaps a shorter tail you could be a bit more generous with the frequencies on the bassline.

That said it is your song and you have done a great job on it so far.

Just my opinion.

Cheers
Nem

wow, your samples are awesome!

I like that...

hope you can show us how you did it ^_^

cheers!

I think your main problem is you state that presence and clarity is from 250-800hz. That is definitely wrong. If you want presence and clarity in both your bassline and kick you need to add some high end (2khz-6khz). I've only listened to the samples and haven't got the chance to check them out in a spectral analyzer. I think your best bet is to add some of that high end (4-6khz) to your bassline to give that uplifting/progressive style. Your kick sounds pretty good to me. I think it sounds fine, but maybe a little bit more punch to it would do though. Try a small, broad boost around 2khz to give it more presence in the mix. See if those help you out at all. I don't even know if you're still working on this, but might as well post it for others that might want to attempt the same thing.

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