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FINALLY a softwood lumber deal!

So Harper has done in 4 months what the Liberals couldnt do in 4 years. Just shows what a bit of diplomacy can accomplish. The conservatives arent perfect by any means but it's such a relief to have a different approach to things now.

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OTTAWA (CP) - The Bush administration believes the softwood lumber deal will blossom into a new era in Canada-U.S. relations. U.S. ambassador David Wilkins says the accord proves the axiom that good personal chemistry between the U.S. president and the prime minister translates into results for both countries. Wilkins' address to a conference looking at the Canada-U.S. relationship represents a far cry from his last nationally televised speech on the Ottawa-Washington partnership. The U.S. ambassador warned Paul Martin during the winter election campaign that the former prime minister's jabs at the United States were putting the relationship on a dangerous slippery slope. Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced the seven-year softwood deal Thursday, saying it will return $4 billion of duties to Canadian producers.

Not surprised at all. It's all about building those business relationships!

yeah my gf in Los Angeles just emailed me the story an hour ago... good work. well that one less negative point against Harper in my books. He still has some other areas to work on but so far I like what I see despite the fact that I was affraid of having him in power a few months back. So far I'm eating my own words, pleasently at that.

in other news the state of Louisiana just brought forth a court initiative to ban ALL abortions regardless of circumstances! (this includes rape, incest and health related complications due to pregnancy!) Looks like they might actually get away with this too!

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Originally posted by nusty in other news the state of Louisiana just brought forth a court initiative to ban ALL abortions regardless of circumstances! (this includes rape, incest and health related complications due to pregnancy!) Looks like they might actually get away with this too!

Are you sure about the "related complications" department.

I am sure that I read the ONLY reason an abortion woudl be allowed was if it actually endangered the life of the mother.

Im pretty sure of this, but would need to search around to confirm.

Jem

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar Are you sure about the "related complications" department. I am sure that I read the ONLY reason an abortion woudl be allowed was if it actually endangered the life of the mother. Im pretty sure of this, but would need to search around to confirm. Jem

I'll double check yesterdays paper here, I'm doubting it myself now, that just seems to go too far even for Lousiana. This state is so messed up sometimes. I mean it's the one place where there is still confusion over not knowing if you can legally drink and drive. (I'm not sure about this year, but I know in the recent past you could have a alcoholic beverage in your hand as long as it had a lid on it... you could put a straw through the lid, but it had to have a lid on it) Drive through Daquiri stands are almost as big as other fast food places.

anyway, until we find more info on the abortion stuff I'll stop hijacking this thread and allow it go back to the soft wood lumber issue.

Is this really a good thing though Jay? Is giving the US a billion dollars that belong to us the solution? Maybe the Liberals didn't really want to bend over as easily as Harper did, and that's why they wouldn't make that deal four years ago.

Re: FINALLY a softwood lumber deal!

^^^ exactly! the rationale seems to be that "any deal is better than no deal" and that's simply not true.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 So Harper has done in 4 months what the Liberals couldnt do in 4 years. Just shows what a bit of diplomacy can accomplish. The conservatives arent perfect by any means but it's such a relief to have a different approach to things now.

x 100

if by "diplomacy" you mean "give up"...sure. Anyone can just concede to the other side...because that's exactly what Harper's gov't appears to have done.

We didn't even get back all of the money that was ILLEGALY taken by the U.S....people think we should be celebrating getting a PORTION of OUR OWN MONEY back???

Concensus seems to be that the deal also heavily favours BC producers (and Quebec, to a lesser extent), while Ontario has had it's production capped at levels below the status quo, which will no doubt eventually mean lost jobs here.

Thanks for standing up for all of Canada Mr. Harper...keep up the great work

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Originally posted by TO guy Is this really a good thing though Jay? Is giving the US a billion dollars that belong to us the solution? Maybe the Liberals didn't really want to bend over as easily as Harper did, and that's why they wouldn't make that deal four years ago.

Not only that! Canadian softwood exports to the United States will be capped at 34% of the total US market. Hardly sounds like free trade to me.

The imperfections in the treaty notwithstanding, I'm glad this got done.

Re: Re: FINALLY a softwood lumber deal!

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Originally posted by MarkT Concensus seems to be that the deal also heavily favours BC producers (and Quebec, to a lesser extent), while Ontario has had it's production capped at levels below the status quo, which will no doubt eventually mean lost jobs here.

Source?

Settled by a liberal defector. I'm not pro-liberal or anything. I just wanted everyone to know.

Re: FINALLY a softwood lumber deal!

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 So Harper has done in 4 months what the Liberals couldnt do in 4 years. Just shows what a bit of diplomacy can accomplish. The conservatives arent perfect by any means but it's such a relief to have a different approach to things now.

How did I know you would be behind this decision. Waiting longer would not have mattered, as long as Canadians got what they deserved.

I haven't read the full details as of yet, so I will with hold judgement to see if this is good for Canada or not. Something just tells me, we could have gotten a better deal.

Re: Re: Re: FINALLY a softwood lumber deal!

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Originally posted by AwakenedAddict Source?

my comment was based upon the original framework...apparently there are now amendments that have appeased McGuinty and Ontario producers (the cap was removed, it seems)


You'll notice though that few people are calling it a "good" deal...everyone who's now rallying around it is using terms like "reasonable" and "the best we can expect" (that latter remark coming from Gordon Ritchie, who worked on the original agreement in 1987, acc. to a Toronto Star article.

IMHO, this entire process is yet another example of the U.S. doing as it pleases. We HAVE a trade agreement...we won countless BINDING decisions from trade panels...yet we're not even getting our money back and having to renegotiate a trade deal that already exists.

Who's to say that the U.S. is even going to play fair under this new agreement?!? They didn't under the last one...

Re: Re: FINALLY a softwood lumber deal!

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Originally posted by Orko Waiting longer would not have mattered,

It definitely matters to those who depend on that industry (most of whom endorsed the deal).

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as long as Canadians got what they deserved.

Canadian governments essentially subsidize Canadian companies, who then have an unfair advantage over American firms (who have to pay market price stumpage rates). I don't agree with the Byrd amendment, but to characterize Canadians as victims in this case is laughable.

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Originally posted by itikia Not surprised at all. It's all about building those business relationships!

Kissing peoples ass is not good business relations....it may get you far in the business world but I don't want a PM who kisses ass

I'm packing some serious hard-wood lumber!

I have to say fine job!

I give credit when it is due.

I'm glad SOMEONE in Government knows when it's time to bite the bullet and accept a compromise. Of course, we all knew this would be comming really fast once Emerson defected... but still, at least we're getting something.

I'm sure the softwood industry is pleased for the most part.

MarkT, it may only be "The best we can get", but "The best we can get" is better than the "NOTHING" the Liberals were getting from them.

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Originally posted by Spam MarkT, it may only be "The best we can get", but "The best we can get" is better than the "NOTHING" the Liberals were getting from them.

I think the whole point is that its not the "best we can get". We should have got what we deserved. Isn't that what "deserved" means?

We didnt get EVERYTHING we wanted but thats how life goes. We can either drag this thing on another 6 years and take even heavier losses, or make a bit of a comprimise today.

The comprimises arent even that big. We get $4 billion of the $5 billion in tarrifs returned. On top of that canada has access to 1/3 the US lumber market tarrif free which is a pretty big market. The softwood industry (those who were taking massive losses and who's futures depend on this decision) are very happy with the deal. So why are people who have nothing to do with softwood complaining?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 We didnt get EVERYTHING we wanted but thats how life goes. We can either drag this thing on another 6 years and take even heavier losses, or make a bit of a comprimise today. The comprimises arent even that big. We get $4 billion of the $5 billion in tarrifs returned. On top of that canada has access to 1/3 the US lumber market tarrif free which is a pretty big market. The softwood industry (those who were taking massive losses and who's futures depend on this decision) are very happy with the deal. So why are people who have nothing to do with softwood complaining?

First off, how do you know I have nothing to do with the softwood lumber industry? Second, it would be OK for you to complain though, right? And third, the tarrifs shouldn't have been taken in the first place!! We should be getting more than the 5 billion!!!

Re: FINALLY a softwood lumber deal!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 So Harper has done in 4 months what the Liberals couldnt do in 4 years. Just shows what a bit of diplomacy can accomplish.

i am glad that you beleive that it was diplomacy that secured that deal. The US and Stephen Harper are the furthest from the definition of diplomacy as it gets.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 We didnt get EVERYTHING we wanted but thats how life goes. We can either drag this thing on another 6 years and take even heavier losses, or make a bit of a comprimise today. The comprimises arent even that big. We get $4 billion of the $5 billion in tarrifs returned. On top of that canada has access to 1/3 the US lumber market tarrif free which is a pretty big market. The softwood industry (those who were taking massive losses and who's futures depend on this decision) are very happy with the deal. So why are people who have nothing to do with softwood complaining?

of all people, I'm amazed that you think it's acceptable that the U.S. essentially stole a *billion* dollars from us. That's a lot of money.

we HAD a trade agreement...we HAVE a dispute resolution process...yet we had to renegotiate the deal because the U.S. didn't like it...and not even get back all of what was ILLEGALLY STOLEN from us.

This is "diplomacy" or compromise to you? it's called cutting our loses and caving to the U.S. It arguably may have been the necessary thing to do at this point, but that doesn't make it "good".

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Originally posted by Jayx1 On top of that canada has access to 1/3 the US lumber market tarrif free which is a pretty big market.

ummm...with NAFTA doesnt canada have tariff and quota free access to the entire US market in any case?

The U.S. made the case, and the WTO agreed, that the Canadian stumpage fee system constitutes an illegal subsidy to Canadian companies.

However, the Byrd Amendment, which allowed the U.S. to collect compensation for U.S. companies injured by illegal Canadian policies, is also itself illegal.

Therefore it's debatable whether the $1 billion kept by U.S. companies is just compensation. The lumber industry, the provinces, and the U.S. seem to think it is a fair amount. I'll trust their judgement.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf The U.S. made the case, and the WTO agreed, that the Canadian stumpage fee system constitutes an illegal subsidy to Canadian companies. However, the Byrd Amendment, which allowed the U.S. to collect compensation for U.S. companies injured by illegal Canadian policies, is also itself illegal. Therefore it's debatable whether the $1 billion kept by U.S. companies is just compensation. The lumber industry, the provinces, and the U.S. seem to think it is a fair amount. I'll trust their judgement.

true...but (and correct me if I'm wrong), the WTO does not issue binding rulings...the other trade body (NAFTA panel?) does...and it's those binding rulings that Canada won.

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