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access virus help..unfat sounds..?
alright all you acces gurus.. I need your help with some stuff. Okay, on my virus Classic, Im having a problem with my leads sounding too hallow. Now I dont know if that makes sence to you guys but thats best as i can describe it. I program a lead, take for example a saw lead detune it, add about 4 unison voices (which I also detune) and standard effects, even a little LFO pitch modulation to help soften the sound. But still, Everything is sounding welll... UN-FAT! Now I bought the Classic instead of the C because I was thinking "newer model, Better occilaters" But I dont know if thats the case anymore. I AM going to get the TI, just later this year.. I feel I have everything I need, just not enough knowledge to program right. ANY HELP!? BTW I WILL POST UP SOME AUDIO SAMPLES OF THE UN-PHATNESS I WAS TALKING ABOUT. and, I have all the tutorials you can think of for the access virus... Thanks guys your the best.
You could save that patch, open it on TI, and it would still sound exactly the same.. don't waste your money!
Well... either you can't program sounds that sound "phat" to you, or you just don't like the Virus sound (in which case you definitely shouldn't buy the TI).
thats what im looking for guidance on.. I cant program anything that sounds fat.. Thats kind of why I was hoping to get maybe some Input from Virus Users. or Maybe have someone go "Hey you should try this..."
| quote: |
| Originally posted by mysticalninja You could save that patch, open it on TI, and it would still sound exactly the same.. don't waste your money! |
Although i cant realy help why not post samples?
Phat is a realtive term really. I have a virus b (same as the classic) and I was a bit surprised when I first started programming it too. A lot of the sounds sounded quite thin and liquidy. I'd say experiment with the filters and saturation settings with analogue boost.
The virus is like a rapier... easy to break but can be a deadly weapon if you use it delicately.
If you feel your not getting anywhere, download some of the prsets from the access site and modify them.
just try this:
commercial soundsets for Access Virus and other Synths from Vengeance:
http://www.vengeance-sound.de/eng/i...ndexSounds.html
free soundsets for Access Virus and other Synths from Vengeance:
http://www.vengeance-sound.de/eng/i...FreeSounds.html
Just download the free sounds or buy the commercial sets if you like them: It will give you lots of ideas, how to fatten up your sounds.
Listen to the demos and checkt what's possible with your virus.
That synth is a tough one to learn how to program.
But like Trancevision said, download and and tweak.
Once you hear those patches on your virus, you'll then know what its able to do.
If you are searching for that typical jp8000 super saw lead, just forget it. The virus just doesnt sound like that. There have been hundreds off threads started about that. I also think the virus lacks sub bass, even the TI.
I have owned the virus b, c, and now the TI.
The TI sounds the same. BUT the hyper saw lead will get you much better results than the other virus's.
I love the sound of the virus, its a unique sounding synth.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Dirty Ice I also think the virus lacks sub bass, even the TI. |
| quote: |
| Take the ClubSub patch by MS in I think Rom Bank M, change the primary osc to a hypersaw and then add unison. You'll get so much sub-bass it will make the walls feel like they're gonna fall down |
im finding the virus can sound like anything you want because its so versatile, programming it is another thing because of this 
mind, some freebie soundsets here http://www.access-music.de/download...ct=virusclassic
look down the bottom and theres a virus programming tutorial. its really good 
Why do people just try to cram in as many saws as they can, go straight for the unison and cross their fingers hoping it will sound good?
The Virus doesnt work like that. For one, the attack and decay envelopes are linear by default, so you will have to recursively modulate them to change their curves to something non linear. Ill explain how to do that in a second.
What about the LFOs? The mod matrix? The raw virus waveforms sound shit until you actually do something with them. Also, you are just doing everything in a weird order and you are jumping straight for the unison effect before the sound even needs unison.
Try this in this order.
Load up the default sound at the end of bank C. It should be a clean sine wave.
Turn the OSC BAL pot all the way left so you can only hear oscillator 1.
Go to the Oscillator 1 panel and turn the OSC SHAPE dial to 12 o clock. Viola you have a monophonic saw wave. Sounds buzzy and sharp. It has too many harmonics at the moment but its ok.
Use the TRANSPOSE buttons to pitch it up and down in octave. Find the range where it sounds best for your purposes. i.e. if you want to make a Bassline like in Sunrise at Palamos you will have to pitch it down an octave for it to be in the right range.
For this example leave it in the middle. Turn OSC SHAPE 2 all the way left so that it is a sine wave.
Mix in OSC2 by moving the OSC BAL pot to the right. Notice how it becomes 'bassier' and 'warmer' the closer to 12 o clock you turn it. Turn it further and you start losing the buzzy saw and start moving more into a sine wave.
Turn OSC2 to 12 o clock and turn OSC BAL to 12 o clock. You now have 2 saw waves. mixed in 50:50 so you can hear both equally. They are identical at this point and it sounds quite annoying.
Turn the detune on OSC2 up to around 60 to bring out a 5th. Sounds a bit better and you arent stacking 2 identical saws together now. Now you have put one slightly out of tune.
Move OSC BAL left and right until you get the tone you are after - its very subtle but I am moving it to +8 to get slightly more of the detuned saw.
Ok. Switch OSC BAL all the way back to the left so you only have OSC1. Back to the buzz.
Go to LFO 1. By default the SHAPE is set to triangle (which is what I want anyway so leave it like that). I want you to press the AMOUNT button so that the OSC 1 led is flashing. The sub menu will now show you LFO 1 and you can use the VALUE pot to making it oscillate over time. Move it left and right. Sounds like a mosquito buzzing around right? You are now modulating the tuning of OSC1.
Change the LFO speed. Its too slow at this point. I moved the speed up to about 82 and set the the AMOUNT to about +6. you now have this wavering, pulsing buzzing sound.
Set OSC BAL back in the middle again. Notice how the sound is pulsing slowly and you get these subtle harmonics as the the 2 saw waves drift in and out of phase. Great stuff.
Keeping OSC BAL at 12 o clock press the AMOUNT button on LFO 1 again so that both OSC 1 and OC 2 are flashing.
Press PARAMETER > so that you are modulating OSC 2. I set the amount to about -10 because I want the second oscillator to modulate in the opposite direction as the first. It still sounds shit at this point. But its ok. I didnt like the detune at this point so I upped it to 90 on OSC 2.
The idea is to get the rough shape and the pulse right.
Press EDIT and scroll to ASSIGN 1. Set SOURCE to RANDOM. Press PARAMETER > and set the destination to Osc2Pitch. Set it to +63 and press a few notes.
See what it is doing? its changing the tuning of oscillator 2 every time you press a note. It sounds too chaotic so change the destination to Osc2Detune and lower the amount to about +15. It is now detuning against oscillator 1 randomly every time you hit a note. I tend to think this makes my sounds more alive and gives them a little subtle movement.
Right. Mix in OSC 3 as Slave. Starting to thicken up a bit. Go to the envelopes. Im thinking this is sounding like a pad/lead so increase the AMPLIFIER RELEASE envelope. I put it to about 67.
Now I am going to differ slightly from the norm and I am going to turn OSC 1 slightly to the right so I have a hint of Square wave. Try 72. Sounds about right. On OSC 2 I did the same but slightly more. Try 83. Notice how it sounds slightly hollow now because of the square. If it stays this way later we can always change OSC 3 to Saw and fiddle with the mix so dont worry about it now.
Now PWM those squares. I set PW 1 to about 24. and PW 2 to about 40. Can you hear what that has done? It has kind of made it gritty sounding and quite grainy. Good stuff.
The sound is beginning to take shape so now lets go deeper.
On LFO 1 press AMOUNT 4 times so you have OSC 1, OSC 2 and ASSIGN flashing. Set the destination of the ASSIGN to Osc1PlsWdh. Can you see what I am doing here? I am now modulating the pulse width of the mixed in square/saws whose tuning is modulated by the pitch LFOs. The result is quite alot of movement and a more interesting series of harmonics.
Set Osc1PlsWdh to +63. I want to max this one out.
Now open LFO 2's ASSIGN by pressing AMOUNT on the LFO 2 panel until you get to ASSIGN. set the destination to Osc2PlsWdh and set it to -64 Increase the speed of LFO 2. See what its doing to the sound? You can get a fuzzier, machine gunning kind of sound by setting the speed very fast or you can set it slower and let it drift and waver. I liked it fast so I set it 100 - just before it starts to 'flubber'
Its starting to sound ok now so fire up Unison and set to UNISON 3. Starting to sound fuller. Not enough detune for this type of sound though so go ahead and push Uni detune up to about 105. Hmmmm. Sounding cliched now.
Set the AMPLIFIER ATTACK to about 59. I dont like the envelope attack so I want to change the curve. it sounds like it is obviously fading in. yuck.
Press EDIT. Scroll to ASSIGN 2 and set the source as AmpEnv. Set the destination to AmpAttack. See whats going on here? I am making the amplifier envelope amount, modulate its own attack. Without getting mathematical, it basically changes the linear curve to something more exponential or inverse exponential. You can even use an LFO as the modulation source and you will be able to hear the amp attack speeding up and slowing down in time with the LFO speed! Seriously the Access Virus is an insane synth like that. You can create any sound on it, if you think about.
Set the Amp attack to +63. Notice how it fades in really slowly and gradually swells. This is better. I started to lose the RELEASE at this point so I increased the amp RELEASE to 88.
You should always be balancing things and making sure that when you tweak one variable, it sometimes makes another less or more prominent.
The sound is also quieter now so increase the MASTER volume a bit to compensate.
I mixed in a little bit of the SUB OSC now but its square wave by default and sounded too 'separate' and 'solid' so I changed it to triangle and set the SUB OSC to about 8. Enough to slightly fill out the sound but not enough that the sub osc starts to overpower the lead and make it too bassy.
This is starting to sound pretty good now. You can make it slightly harder sounding by turning the OSC 2 FM AMOUNT to 1. Bear in mind this will make it sound more out of tune so you need to lower the detune to compensate.
I want to rectify this sound now so its closer to a string sound. So select EFFECTS. goto DISTORTION and select RECTIFIER. I set the amount to about 5. Not too much because our sound is already pretty harmonically rich. Dont want to add too much harmonics. I also increased the ANALOG BOOST to about 50. Not too much or it starts to sound kind of murky.
Stick a slight chorus on it by turning Dir/Eff to 4. Set the FILTER ENV AMOUNT to about 25 and sweep the filter. Nice but its not bright enough when the filter is fully open. So press EDIT to open the SATURATION menu and change the curve to HighPass. Set the OSC VOL to about +20. This will filter out some of the bass and make the highs appear to be louder. They arent in fact - its just a trick of the mind but it will make the sound seem brighter by removing some of the bass.
At this point I felt it sounded better at UNISON 4 so I upped that. I wanted to make the RELEASE tail seem more prominent so I added a REVERB in the effects menu. Set it to HALL. DecayTime to about 46 and set the REVERB EffectSend to about 54. Echoes out nicely now.
The sound is fairly complete now and the rest are just tiny subtleties. What I did was set ASSIGN 3 source to LFO 3 and set its DEST to Panorma. Set its value to -6. This makes the sound subtle drift left and right in time with LFO 3.
I then set up LFO 3 by pressing EDIT on LFO 2. I set the OscAmount to about +14. Dest to Osc1+2 and the Rate to about 20. I wanted the rate slow so that the panning was slow and more like a drift.
I decreased the AMP attack to 34 because I wanted the sound to be more responsive and decreased the AMP release to 76. I then set ASSIGN 2's source to modulate ChorusDly and set it to +63.
Also, I felt it sounded nicer as a 'darker' kind of trance sound so I dropped it an octave using TRANSPOSE and set it to Mono4 instead of Polyphonic playback. I left FILTER BALANCE at 12 o clock and upped CUTOFF 2 to maximum so that you could hear the sound faintly when CUTOFF 1 was fully closed. Then I stuck a fruity delay 2 on it because I cant have reverb and delay at the same time on the Virus B 
As yoda would say about the Virus TI - '80 voices a phat sound does not make HRRRM?'
This patch uses the sum total of 4 voices.
This should be the result (no external effects or post processing other than Fruity Delay 2):
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
With a few modifications of the patch I just described you can turn it into practically any trance sound. I turned it into this Candyman Lead in about 20 minutes and with a little post processing:
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
That one uses 4 voices too...
THANK YOU GOD! THAT IS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR MAN! phew.. SOME GOOD OL Fashion Help... thans alot man I really appreciate you taking the time to help out and throw some words worth while out there! Muchos Nachos hommie!!!
Im fairly convinced you can build pretty much any stock virtual analogue/analogue sound using a Virus B. If you cant get anywhere close you are doing something wrong or you arent trying hard enough.
Really, 1400 quids worth of Virus isnt going to do shit if you cant get anything decent sounding out of a 300 quid, second hand B model...
Try building stock sounds out of the tutorial I just posted. You may notice if you follow the tutorial all the way through the patch sounds a little bit like a rank 1 pad, then later on sounds a little bit the cygnus x superstring sound and eventually ends up sounding like a scott brown freeform lead.
That candyman lead is essentially built out of the same principle except LFO 1 is modulating LFO 3 and both are set really fast. FM AMOUNT is set to 1 and it sounds hard and out of tune. There is very little distortion on it.
When you are designing sounds it can morph into all kinds of stuff. I was builting a 303 clone once and fiddled with the oscillator pitch modulation setting and accidentally built this weird elastic sounding squelch ala psytrance. Which I thought sounded really trippy. Saved to bank A patch 91. If you modulate TRANSPOSE via an LFO you get a barraging laser sound effect. Thats 3 totally different sounds that are about 1 minute of fiddling apart.
Derivative is back again! How ya been man? Not heard from you in a looooong while. You moved out of Scumhampton now then?! 
Yea I quit my degree and got a job in Dublin where I am now until September time. Then I want to move back to Southampton because well...I like it there
How's mef holding up? Going at it on the production front? This shit is pretty much all I do in my spare time now. HA!
EDIT: We both still seem to be insomniacs. I have to be at work tommorow at 8:30am and Im making weird sounds on my Virus B :O
hehe my tunes are going REALLY well at the mo. We never did get around to that collab did we? 
pm me your email man
Stick around online for another 15 minutes, ill pm ya some schtuff.
cool cool
Got back from work today with fresh ears and decided there were things about that patch I disliked. So I fixed them.
List of changes:
LFO 1 speed down to 87
LFO 2 speed down to 50
LFO 3 speed a touch down to 83
LFO 3 Amount up to 44
Unison Detune up to 122
Punch Intensity up to 124
Filter 1 + 2 Resonance up to 22
Filter Saturation Curve changed to Rectifier
OSC VOL up to 20
OSC 3 changed from Slave to SAW
OSC 2 Shape down to 69 (so its more SAW)
OSC 1 Shape down to 66 (ditto)
OSC 3 Detune up to -14
(Dunno what I was thinking - there was way too much square wave for this type of sound)
Because of the change in the texture of the sound, I redid the envelopes:
AMP Attack down to 21
AMP Release down to 38
Then I finally gave in to the EQ and used a gentle slope that peaks at +4 dB at 16khz and slopes down to -2 dB at 50hz. The EQ is a temporary quick fix until I work out a way to brighten up the oscillators a touch. I still think the EQ makes it sound slightly shit and more hollow than it should sound.
Also, the rapid pitch modulation sounds really rough on the bass notes so its probably worth splitting the sound into a multi mode patch, with the top interval played using this patch - the bass accompaniement played using a modified version of this patch with the LFO speed, OSC detune and the gain dropped down a touch.
The attack still doesnt sound right but I need to approach it with fresh ears so it'll do tommorow. This is the result:
(so far so superstring...)
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
(I know what you are going to say - 'dude, I can hear the Virus Voice steal - you have maxed out the polyphony!'
Yea its true 3 x 4 voices = 12 minus some more voices from the 3rd oscillator + long release tail means some points where you go over 24 voices. Sucks to be a Virus B user. 
)
Big tip: Take frequent breaks when sound designing. You notice stuff that sucks at about your sounds more when you havent heard them for a couple of hours.
Keep fixing the shitty aspects of them and saving them in the last 10 patch slots at the end of BANK A. I labelled these a119SUPASTWING1, a119SUPASTWING2 etc etc.
Save a new one every time you make severe modifications. Come back to it at some later time and flip back and forth between patches once you have 3 or more of them. do A vs B comparisons and overwrite the crappest sounding one. Keeping doingthat for a few weeks and by the end of it you have a series of awesome sounds.
Thanks for the awsome stuff again man.. I printed it again.. and im going to stay up late again! working onit
Superb posts Derivative, thank you.
thanks for that derivative very informative post that i agree with.
hey Derivative I had a question about the when you were talking about the The the attack and decay envelopes being linear by default, do you mean they are either / for the attack or \ for the decay? and you want to make it somthing like ~ ? I know in the PM I used an example by Alpha zone.. lol Im sorry for it I just thought that would be the best song to give as refrence... that and the record was on the floor. But mainly in for Modern trance records.. What type of Wave forms do you see alot of? from the Write ups you were so wonderfull to share with us, I made some patches for starting points. An example of the type of sounds I would like to make are like Mr.sams "lyote" (i think thats the spelling) type leads. The reason I was assuming that the virus TI would have been fatter would have to be the hypersaw, and the polyphony.
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