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Toronto Police J-Walking crackdown

So they are actually issuing tickets to J-walkers.

I am of mixed opinion about this.

I dont think they should give tickets to those who cross the street and give way to cars that rightfully belong there. But i DO think they need to ticket J-walkers who cause a car to slow down or even stop. Pedestrians have gotten ballsy lately because they think that because its always a driver's fault if they get hit, the driver will always stop. Some people just brazenly walk out onto a busy street AND DONT EVEN LOOK!

I even honk at these people and then THEY GIVE ME THE FINGER!

My solution:

If you get hit by a car while Jwalking it should be automatically the pedestrian's fault except in cases of wreckless driving or impaired driving.

If you get hit at a crosswalk or intersection while you have the right of way it should be automatically the driver's fault.

You would think the prospect of getting smooshed by 2 tonnes of rolling steel would be incentive enough to be cautious. But it's not!

Re: Toronto Police J-Walking crackdown

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 My solution: If you get hit by a car while Jwalking it should be automatically the pedestrian's fault except in cases of wreckless driving or impaired driving. If you get hit at a crosswalk or intersection while you have the right of way it should be automatically the driver's fault. You would think the prospect of getting smooshed by 2 tonnes of rolling steel would be incentive enough to be cautious. But it's not!

Absolutely.

If you cross when you should -- YOUR FAULT! Now dont go trying to sue the fucking driver saying he had the onus to watch out for you! You had RED LIGHT/DONT WALK SIGN! Onus is on you!

If you J-walk when ur not supposed to and get hit and try to sue the driver I think thats fucking BULLSHIT.

i agree with u jay, it shouldn't be illegal if you've made a good judgement call and its completley safe.

quote:

You would think the prospect of getting smooshed by 2 tonnes of rolling steel would be incentive enough to be cautious.

apparently the more weight the less concern. im shocked at how many people look me right in my eyes when driving a bus and then walk right in front when im moving pretty quick. maybe its a perception thing..... "the bus is slow, i can get past" but the problem is i cant stop in time if u stop right in front because you got delayed by another car.

I got a ticket for idling my car 2 weeks ago.
Funny thing is, I thought I'd get a parking ticket for being too close to the curb or blocking a hydrant when I ran into the bank. The cop never mentioned what he was gonna write a ticket for. He had me pull up, and as always, they take 10 mins to write the damn ticket. When he came back, he tells me he's ticketing me for idling, 'as you're doing right now'. You know, if it were so damn important that I not idle, you'd think he'd tell me to turn the car off in the 1st place while he writes the ticket!!!!

Off to court we go....

Pedestrians should always have the right of way.

Car vs. Person = death.

(This is not excusing the idiots who expect cars to stop, but drivers need less road rage).

I still remember the tour guides first instructions when I took a class trip to Quebec City: "This isn't Toronto. If you see a car, don't step onto the road."
It seems that Toronto is singular in the boldness of its pedestrians.

quote:

Originally posted by muzzybear Pedestrians should always have the right of way. Car vs. Person = death. (This is not excusing the idiots who expect cars to stop, but drivers need less road rage).

Wrong

If a pedestrian steps out into a roadway when he shouldnt, his right of way should be waived. Roads are for cars, Sidewalks are for people. There are places designed to accomodate where those two places meet. If you decide not to use those places (crosswalks) then you do so at your own risk.

Id love to see a toronto pedestrian in europe, asia or south america. He wouldnt last 5 minutes if he had the same attitude towards cars as most people here do.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Wrong If a pedestrian steps out into a roadway when he shouldnt, his right of way should be waived. Roads are for cars, Sidewalks are for people. There are places designed to accomodate where those two places meet. If you decide not to use those places (crosswalks) then you do so at your own risk. Id love to see a toronto pedestrian in europe, asia or south america. He wouldnt last 5 minutes if he had the same attitude towards cars as most people here do.

And in parking lots?

quote:

Originally posted by muzzybear And in parking lots?

dont even get me started about parking lots!!

Another scenario where people just waltz along as if cars dont matter. Meanwhile, even most parking lots have crosswalks and driveways.

Needless to say while driving in toronto i use my horn quite often.

BTW im always a curteous pedestrian. When i cross i wait for cars to pass if i am j-walking. And sometimes cars will even stop to let you cross. If i am at a crosswalk i still dont assume cars will see me so i keep a look out to make sure no one is coming.

When i am driving and conditions allow (ie heavy traffic), ill usually let a pedestrian cross if he is waiting. If he just starts walking and forces me to stop he gets the horn treatment.

^^^^^^^^^^ totally agree... in a'dam... you'd be hit by a bike long before you'd even come close to bothering people driving cars...

also thats why in MTL you can't turn right on red... cause on the island of MTL in the case of a car hitting a pedestrian, barring extreme circumstances, the fault is placed on the pedestrian....

the worst are the jwalkers that cross like 10 feet from the cross walk/intersection... thats just lazy....

lex

damn... they're issuing tickets now?

I J-Walked right in front of a parked cop car (i didnt notice it was there) the other day lol
but there were no moving cars on the road, so i guess thats why he didn't do anything.

quote:

Originally posted by lexclu also thats why in MTL you can't turn right on red... cause on the island of MTL in the case of a car hitting a pedestrian, barring extreme circumstances, the fault is placed on the pedestrian.... lex

thats exactly how it is in most juridictions in the world. and pedestrians are therefor respectful of cars. I just find it unbelievable how people here have no regard for their own safety and just waltz out into traffic expecting everyone to stop for their royal highnesses. And then have the gall to flip the bird when someone gets upset.

Another interesting anecdote. The people who seem to be most guilty of blatant disregard when it comes to jwalking are white women between 15-40. White men seem to be the second highest demographic. Rarely do you see non white people pulling this stunt. I have always presumed that this is because they are probably immigrants and grew up in a place where they knew better than to pull that. And older white people actually grew up in a time when common sense prevailed.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 thats exactly how it is in most juridictions in the world. and pedestrians are therefor respectful of cars. I just find it unbelievable how people here have no regard for their own safety and just waltz out into traffic expecting everyone to stop for their royal highnesses. And then have the gall to flip the bird when someone gets upset.

And that's why J-walking is illegal! Pedestrians should cross at intersections. (Not trying to be argumentative, Jayx1, just regurgitating what my parents told me growing up... when it comes to a battle of crossing or not... cars always win.)

quote:

Originally posted by muzzybear And that's why J-walking is illegal! Pedestrians should cross at intersections. (Not trying to be argumentative, Jayx1, just regurgitating what my parents told me growing up... when it comes to a battle of crossing or not... cars always win.)

I agree with the jwalking law. But only in cases where you cause a disruption to traffic.

But as i said, if you jwalk the law should say that you do so at your own risk.

They started that like last week here in Montreal. Montreal notorious for j-walking.

Re: Toronto Police J-Walking crackdown

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 My solution: If you get hit by a car while Jwalking it should be automatically the pedestrian's fault except in cases of wreckless driving or impaired driving.

Sorry Jay but this will not happen. There is a reverse onus of proof for pedestrian collisions, the driver is automatically considered negligent unless they can prove the pedestrian was negligent. Ordinarilly, in cases of collisions that happen out side of marked cross walks the courts will hold the pedestrian 25% contributorally negligent. This is to say that the pedestrian is 25% at fault.

The reason for this reverse onus is to protect pedestrians from the financial ruin that could result from injuries suffered due to being struck by a vehicle. This is the way it works in every province in Canada and every state in the USA. No legislature believes that someone should have to be left completely unprotected should they be struck by a vehicle as vehicles have the capacity to render catastrophic injuries to pedestrians. Personally, I agree with this. As the driver of a vehicle you owe a duty of care to those whom you could injure or kill to protect them from the danger posed by your operation of an automobile. As part of that duty you need to remain attentive to your surroundings including pedestrians that may step off the curb in front of your vehicle. If you do not drive with due care sufficient to avoid collisions with pedestrians then you have breached your duty of care. Despite the fact that this reverse onus often works against my interests as an insurance adjuster I believe it is necessary to protect the public and subsequently must be maintained.

I think this is pretty stupid. Hopefully they're only ticketing the J-walkers who are endangering other people...i.e. when they cause a traffic to stop. Just b/c you're a pedestrian does NOT mean you have the right of way. If you're J-walking and there's no cars coming and it doesn't effect traffic than fine...these people shouldn't get a ticket.

I think it actually does NOT protect the public. Why? because now the public has become more brazen and will take more risks because "it's their fault anyways". Lets put the onus on the jwalking pedestrian and then lets see how many put themselves at risk as they do now.

Sounds like you are in insurance. So you would know about probability. The more often a pedestrian crosses illegally, the more probable he will be hit by a car. Now imagine if a pedestrian was made to think twice about illgally crossing and had a reason not to interupt traffic? The incidences of fatal pedestrian accidents would decrease just based on probability alone.

Laws can change if we want them to. Everything in society is capable of changing if there is a will. We just have to start electing politicians who think about the big picture instead of trying to be all things to all people.

quote:

Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* I think this is pretty stupid. Hopefully they're only ticketing the J-walkers who are endangering other people...i.e. when they cause a traffic to stop. Just b/c you're a pedestrian does NOT mean you have the right of way. If you're J-walking and there's no cars coming and it doesn't effect traffic than fine...these people shouldn't get a ticket.

I knew there was a reason i liked you LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 "it's their fault anyways". Lets put the onus on the jwalking pedestrian and then lets see how many put themselves at risk as they do now.

Do you really think people think about their right to sue when they cross the road?

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I knew there was a reason i liked you LOL

Well I'm glad you figured it out

quote:

Originally posted by muzzybear Pedestrians should always have the right of way. Car vs. Person = death. (This is not excusing the idiots who expect cars to stop, but drivers need less road rage).

On a green, pedestrians always DO have the right of way. But if you're crossing a street on red, well shit.

One of my pet peeves is people who take FOREVER to cross the road. I'm waiting in the middle of an intersection to make a left hand turn, and fatasses walking at a normal pace always purposely seem to slow down when they cross the street. Frustrating.

quote:

Originally posted by TO guy Do you really think people think about their right to sue when they cross the road?

I think its deeply engrained that they have some warped idea about how they "always have right of way" even when they dont. And then they act on it. I think that if this law were to change and there was a lot of media coverage, this idea would be erased.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I think its deeply engrained that they have some warped idea about how they "always have right of way" even when they dont. And then they act on it. I think that if this law were to change and there was a lot of media coverage, this idea would be erased.

I think you're dreaming. People are trying to get to the other side of the street. They're not thinking about who was the right of way. It may be different if the outcome of a collision wasn't so catastrophic for the pedestrian. It doesn't really matter if a dead pedestrian was at fault or not.

quote:

Originally posted by TO guy I think you're dreaming. People are trying to get to the other side of the street. They're not thinking about who was the right of way. It may be different if the outcome of a collision wasn't so catastrophic for the pedestrian. It doesn't really matter if a dead pedestrian was at fault or not.

Ok if thats the case, why are pedestrians here so brazen where the onus is on the driver yet anywhere else ive been where the onus is on the pedestrian, pedestrians actually respect automobiles?

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