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Underappreciated/Overhyped synths thread (with reasons why)

My choice for underappreciated synths:

Yamaha AN1x - it's probably the best kept secret in synth market at the moment.

PROS:
- it's relatively cheap
- it has FM and Substractive synthesis components
- amazing key feel - making it a wonderful MIDI master kbd
- built-in sequencer, phenomenal sound shaping capabilities
- one of the most inspiring sounds: music just seems to make itself when it is played
- can emulate 303 acid lines and do its own basslines/acid lines like a beast!
- decent built-in effects
- full MIDI implementation with knobs transmitting SYSEX
- very sophisticated modulation matrix with many cool sound shaping capabilities (combine it with FM sound shaping and you can get some really weird and very pleasant results)
- touchstrip for really awesome real time control
- can be bought relatively cheap (under $400!)

CONS:
- No S&H or Random LFO wave shape (but can be overcome by using FM)
- No sub-oscilator but can be compensated by stacking voices and detuning
- Arp pattern selection goes from 2 octaves to 4 octaves, skipping 3!!! wtf???
- Only 128 patches, single bank, no multi!
- only 2 outs (L/R), no inputs
- sounds quiter than other synths, even cranked to full volume

Overall: wonderful value and excellent synth!

more to come later
------
OVERRATED SYNTHS:

Alesis A6 Andromeda:

CONS:
- The most digital sounding analog synth!
- Almost impossible to get "warm" sound - major piss off, considering it's analog!
- Takes over 3 minutes to tune and about 15 minutes to warm up ( even Jupiter 8 is faster!)
- Very complex and impossible to master unless you're a synth pro
- Hard to get sounds that are not harsh
- Awful quality control and inconsistent quality - you never know how reliable or unreliable yours will be
- Not the best keybed, considering the suggested MSRP of $3000
- Uses archaic PCMCIA card for additional storage and limited to 4MB cards!
- very touchy and overly sensitive knobs, resulting in difficulty getting a percise value dialed in without using buttons
- Menus are in tiny print, hard to read in dark/on stage
- Not 100% true analog (signal path is in parts digital)

*****

more to come later

I completely agree on the AN1X I'm selling most of my gear this summer (including nova and �Q) but this synth is never gonna leave my studio. It's the only synth I've used in ALL my songs.

edit: forgot to mention: I just love what yamaha did to the menu design, at first it's hard to master but after a few days you're menu hopping and after a week you know every parameter out of your head. Just think of it instead of having 1 shift button, you have 7 but each have a dedicated section to control so this makes sense. Great way to make a synth affordable.

Overrated :
-All roland grooveboxes, they plain suck. Sound-and sequencerwise. (the mc series, I didn't check the 909 tho)
-Novation nova: I get a phatter sound out of my an1x with 2 oscs and unison than the nova with 3 double saws. Ths unison is among the worste I have heard -ever-. It's capable of plucks, awesome acid riffs and sync sounds but not very good as lead synth.
-Roland jp8000: I'd prefer the an1x above the jp anytime. The synthesis power of the jp8000 is poor. 2 reasons people buy it are supersaw (duh) and knob-per-parameter. I admit it looks sexy tho!

Underrated :
-Waldorf Q products : the possibilities in sound design are kinda endless. Subtractive + FM + wavetable in one synth is unique I think? �Q is a hell to program tho. Prefer the rack or keyboard or the Q+ if you can afford it.

Totally agree about the an1x as well- very under-rated. I have the cs1x and cs2x too and keeping the same user interface was a smart move by yamaha.
The fact that i picked up my An1 for �100 ($200ish) makes it even more special.

quote:

Originally posted by DeZmA -Waldorf Q products : the possibilities in sound design are kinda endless. Subtractive + FM + wavetable in one synth is unique I think?

*cough* Virus TI *cough*

Actually, Access Music got the wavetable technology from currently-defunct Waldorf and went several steps above that. You can actually do some really cool stuff with the wavetable on Ti, including creating your own wavetables and importing them in Ti - talk about getting a unique sound.

Also, a little bird whispered to me that Waldorf may be comming back soon.... so, keep your fingers crossed.

I also agree that JP and SN synths are too hyped up and not really as flexible. It's almost that the synth itself is a one-trick-pony. You get certain things done with it but aside from that it will never be mistaken for anything else.

Take Virus synths - what I see as far as waveshaping capabilities in Virus is currently unparalleled. Especially in TI series. The sounds can be sculpted to imitate or not sound like anything else. Whereas JP8xxx can be clearly identified in the mix, on certain Virus patches - you can't even tell it's a virus. It does not have the sound limitation as obvious as other synths. It is a great, great instrument. It's not overhyped or underrated, hence it does not fit in any category - it is just a great synth and must have (OS bugs and flaws and all).

Continuing on with the overrated synths:

Overrated:

Sequential Circuits Prophet VS

CONS
- Overall lousy construction and workmanship
- Only 1 data slider for all your data entry, making real time manipulation virtually impossible
- Fragile data slider, prone to breaking and no replacement parts in sight
- Joystick is also prone to breakage and if it's broke, synth is virtually useless - unless you use it with a PC

side note: I found a software online when I had the synth that allowed manipulation of all the parameters via computer in real time. Definitely made programming it a breeze. If you own a VS, search for "VS patch editor" - it's java based but it rox.

...moving on

- Noisy circuits - have to use noise gate to get rid of crappy noise that's ever present
- LCD is prone to sudden death without a warning - good luck finding replacement. Even Winecountry is out on the parts
- Nothing special about the sound. It has one thing going for it - joystick for real time sound morphing but with little ingenuity many other synth can do that with some external controller.
- Lousy case construction, known to bend and twist - definitely not rigid enough for its mass
- Does not hold its value at the moment (unless you buy it cheap - under $700)
- Curtis chips are known to go and replacements are hard to find and expensive
- Does not stand out in the mix
- Limited modulation and sound shaping capability
- Somewhat ugly (all subject to taste)


*********

Next:

BIGGEST HYPE OF ALL TIME:

CONS:
Roland TB-303

- One trick pony for OVER $900!!!! Are you people nuts?????
- Horrible editing/programming of the sequencer
- No MIDI unless you consider DIN-to-MIDI converter without MIDI spec compliance
- Fragile construction... no, CHEAP construction, prone to breakage
- Annoying after a while... especially if you listen to the same loop for too long
- Overdone and you're better off using other synths if you do want acid line. Be creative, damn it!
- If it breaks - good luck getting it fixed, though the word is it uses common parts, relatively easy to find (aside from CPU).
- Cheaper emulators and worthy alternatives exist

...if you spent more than $200 for yours - you're an idiot, sorry. Even if I did buy it - I'd buy cheap, with an intention to turn around and sell it to some sucker QUICKLY.

****
Same as above, Future Retro Revolution
CONS:
- Not really a TB-303, though pretty close
- Nausiating lay-out and design
- Poor and confusing editing design
- Overpriced

side note: If you must have a 303-sound and do want to buy something sensible as alternative, consider getting Future Retro 777. At least it's not a one-trick pony and can be used as a pretty decent monosynth. At least it has a personality and looks cool, as well as sounds decent. Be sure to get OS3 if you do get it.

...more later.

I want to defend the TB-303 here...

It isnt easy to overstate the kind of effect this simple synth had on the Dance music scene. It is probably one of the great forefathers of Modern electronic music along with the minimoog.

It isnt versatile. The square wave on the TB isnt actually a square wave. Nobody knows what the hell it is (rectified saw/square mix? Dunno). The output of the synth distorts when you put the volume over 9/10. The analogue filter is poorly designed.

However - all of those reasons are oddly enough, precisely why I love the 303. The square wave on it has no equal. It cannot be perfectly emulated at this time - not even by analogue hardware kits that clone the original circuit layout. I have never been able to emulate the square wave on my Virus B (I can get the saw fairly close). I have also never been able to emulate the 18dB filter of a 303. I can emulate 18dB filters easy using multimode filters and the Virus filter. But it doesnt sound like or behave like the 303 filter.

I happen to think the layout is perfectly intuitive. Unlike alot of other synths, it requires absolutely zero muscianship to operate. Anyone can get musical sounds out of a 303. Also, the point of the 303 is to vary patterns, not have the same loop going over and over. Thats not a fault of the instrument. Thats a fault of the person programming it.

The reason why the 303 costs so much is that up until very recently, there simply wasnt any synth that could do what it can do. Now we have audiorealism bassline and future retro revolution and they are close to the real deal but they aint perfect. I love the sound of the 303. Many of my favourite records use it - like Union Jack's Two Full Moons and a Trout and Hallucinogen's LSD (both square wave incidentally).

Special mention to the minimoog. The king of bass. The king of monophonic leads. Responsible for *that* lead on Binary Finary's 1998 - you know the one. It sounds so alive and the saturated distortion on the oscillators gives it this 'electric' quality that sends shivers down my spine. Listen to the original mix of 1998 to see what I mean.

OP: what you say about the A6 Andromeda is uncanny. Because I felt it too. Its an awesome synth but there was something missing. I wouldnt say it sounded 'digital' but it lacks the personality of some of the old classic analogue polys. It just doesnt feel as 'alive' as a minimoog. Or a Jupiter 8. And you pay megabucks for it

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative I want to defend the TB-303 here... It isnt easy to overstate the kind of effect this simple synth had on the Dance music scene. It is probably one of the great forefathers of Modern electronic music along with the minimoog. It isnt versatile. The square wave on the TB isnt actually a square wave. Nobody knows what the hell it is (rectified saw/square mix? Dunno). The output of the synth distorts when you put the volume over 9/10. The analogue filter is poorly designed. However - all of those reasons are oddly enough, precisely why I love the 303. The square wave on it has no equal. It cannot be perfectly emulated at this time - not even by analogue hardware kits that clone the original circuit layout. I have never been able to emulate the square wave on my Virus B (I can get the saw fairly close). I have also never been able to emulate the 18dB filter of a 303. I can emulate 18dB filters easy using multimode filters and the Virus filter. But it doesnt sound like or behave like the 303 filter. I happen to think the layout is perfectly intuitive. Unlike alot of other synths, it requires absolutely zero muscianship to operate. Anyone can get musical sounds out of a 303. Also, the point of the 303 is to vary patterns, not have the same loop going over and over. Thats not a fault of the instrument. Thats a fault of the person programming it. The reason why the 303 costs so much is that up until very recently, there simply wasnt any synth that could do what it can do. Now we have audiorealism bassline and future retro revolution and they are close to the real deal but they aint perfect. I love the sound of the 303. Many of my favourite records use it - like Union Jack's Two Full Moons and a Trout and Hallucinogen's LSD (both square wave incidentally). Special mention to the minimoog. The king of bass. The king of monophonic leads. Responsible for *that* lead on Binary Finary's 1998 - you know the one. It sounds so alive and the saturated distortion on the oscillators gives it this 'electric' quality that sends shivers down my spine. Listen to the original mix of 1998 to see what I mean. OP: what you say about the A6 Andromeda is uncanny. Because I felt it too. Its an awesome synth but there was something missing. I wouldnt say it sounded 'digital' but it lacks the personality of some of the old classic analogue polys. It just doesnt feel as 'alive' as a minimoog. Or a Jupiter 8. And you pay megabucks for it

I absolutely have to agree with you about the vintage of 303 and the fact that it has created a genre of it's own - acid - cannot be understated. Artists like Union Jack or even Josh Wink would probably be doing something else if it weren't for 303. However, all the sentimental issues aside, 303 still remains a one trick pony and unless you need to have "that" acid line - nothing else will do. As far s using it for something else aside from the acid lines, it is pretty much SOL.

I tried to stay objective within the confines of facts on the synths I've outlined... of course, if we throw in the sentimentality or heritage of cerain synths many will have to be mentioned.

I do agree that what is has done for the electronic music or the scene is unparalleled, however, as you pointed out there are many more sensible alternatives available nowdays and people willing to shell out such a big sum of money deserve to know what they are getting themselves into. I was really expecting a lot more bang for the buck when I got my 303 and after I realized its limitations, no amount of glitter could convince me that it was a sensible "investment".

...to each his own....

quote:

Originally posted by aNYthing *cough* Virus TI *cough*

Lol,
I was thinking of that one just some moments ago, I thought someone would mention it hehe Also the komplexer softsynth can do it too, but that is basicly a �Q clone. I guess reaktor could do these things too but I'm a musician, not a synth engineer.

Anyway, I'm grabbing one in a month, it'll be my first virus.

It is the Tb-303's inherent flaws that make it perfect and unlike anything else in the world (closest to it sound wise is the MC-202 with the motherfu*ker sequencer )


Overhyped? Not a chance.....
OverPRICED...... oh yes indeedy......

i have one!
Under-rated:
Cheetah MS-6

pros:
True analogue
6 part multi timbral
very editable
Same chips as a certain oberheim
Very unique sound
very cheap
very unique!!!

Cons:
one single mono output (for 6 parts? )
very limited midi spec- editing restricted to front panel only for the most part
very fragile
very rare


its rarity (no-one has ever heard of it!!), limitations and flaws mean most people turn their noses up at it- but look past the snobbery and it can create some pure evil sounds.....
er and mine has an annoying habit of sending 240 volts into my hand from time to time....bloody painful.

quote:

its rarity (no-one has ever heard of it!!), limitations and flaws mean most people turn their noses up at it- but look past the snobbery and it can create some pure evil sounds..... er and mine has an annoying habit of sending 240 volts into my hand from time to time....bloody painful.

I expected this to happen from some analogue synths. They are so alive they are becoming sentient and are trying to resist your attempts to control it. Soon it will swing out your window with a 1/4" TS cable and make a run for it, into the wide blue yonder!

mwahaha

I bought it from Leeroy Thornhill from the Prodigy.....he didnt tell me it did it! i suspect he didnt know TBH- or maybe those long arms ( he is well over 6' 3" ) meant he didnt feel a thing

I have a cheetah MS6 (actually 2) that I bought from UK. As far as MIDI implementation goes, there's a guy who does firmware updates that give it some cool functionality

here's some info:
http://www.maad.net/ms6/

I have two to give me an ultimately lush and yet stereo monster synth. Talk about flexibility - you can do splits on left and right or combine the two for 12 voices of stereo polyphony.

Mine have been as solid as a rock.

As far as shock from power supply, try taking yours apart and make sure that bare cable does not touch the chassy - relatively easy fix. Worst case, de-sodder the power mains, cut the cable, strip and re-sodder new (unbroken) power leads back. I'd also add some kind of a rubber insulation jacket to prevent this crap from happening again. Sadly, because the power cable connects directly to the unit, you're bound to get this kind of "shocking experience" if the cable insulation is broken and comes in contact with a synth.

If you don't want to fry it - try fixing it. For more adventerous and handy, you can even fit an IEC jack like so:



Oh, and shelling out few bucks and some time for firmware upgrade is definitely worth it.

Cheers!

Yeah i know that site.

Have taken it apart many times- just cant see what did it. Total mystery TBH. Touch wood it hasnt happened for a while.

It is certainly tempremental

It probably isnt grounded properly and some metal part of the live circuit is touching the case, making it go 'live'?

Either that or its trying to kill you

Just my opinions:

Underrated:

1. Korg 01
Why: It has decent built in effects, bad ass emotional pads. Decent sequencer, pretty cheap these days. Easy to use UI.

2. Kawai K5000S
Why: Additive synth for real unique sounds, tons of knobs for real time control of pretty much all important parameters.

3. Alesis Fusion
Why: Cheap, sampling, multitrack recording, FM, analog modeling, physical modeling, subtractive wavetable, great effects, musically VERY usefull. Easy to use UI.

Another underappreciated synth is:

Roland XP-30.
Why: All the sounds of the 1080, 2080, Xp-50/60/80, plus techno, sessions, and orchestra sounds. Along with controllers, lighted buttons and a good ui for less then anything else in that category.

LMFAO at any retard dissing the 303. Yeah, it may be fucking stupid to program, but how many other fucking synths spawned entire genres of music that are still going on strong to this day? Cretainly the moog; and, perhaps you could argue the JP8080, but even hardcore oldschool trance fanatics like myself are sick of the supersaw bullshit. The 303 on the otherhand... man, I'll be at the club and all of a sudden a sick 303 square bassline comes into play and BOOM, dancefloor fucking MAYHEM.

Do not diss that synth. Period.

I've got acid in my veins

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Walsh LMFAO at any retard dissing the 303. Yeah, it may be fucking stupid to program, but how many other fucking synths spawned entire genres of music that are still going on strong to this day? Cretainly the moog; and, perhaps you could argue the JP8080, but even hardcore oldschool trance fanatics like myself are sick of the supersaw bullshit. The 303 on the otherhand... man, I'll be at the club and all of a sudden a sick 303 square bassline comes into play and BOOM, dancefloor fucking MAYHEM. Do not diss that synth. Period. I've got acid in my veins

See, that's what defines overrated

and mature word choice

quote:

Originally posted by Freak Totally agree about the an1x as well- very under-rated. I have the cs1x and cs2x too and keeping the same user interface was a smart move by yamaha. The fact that i picked up my An1 for �100 ($200ish) makes it even more special.

Yea but the cs1x and cs2x just looks the same but the 8 knobs can not be shifted (or only once) if I remember right. The An1x first annoys you to program but soon you realise that every vital parameter can be tweaked within half a second.

quote:

You can actually do some really cool stuff with the wavetable on Ti, including creating your own wavetables and importing them in Ti - talk about getting a unique sound.

You can't do either of these on a Ti.. You can't even play 2 or 3 arps or 4 midi tracks at once without having to press the panic butten everyone 2 minutes now.

quote:

Originally posted by Freak Yeah i know that site. Have taken it apart many times- just cant see what did it. Total mystery TBH. Touch wood it hasnt happened for a while. It is certainly tempremental

What could be happening is the insulation inside the cable could be broken somewhere exposing the live cores and the earth core, and when they come in contact you'll get a voltage in your synth's chassis. This should be discharged through the earth but if the earth is broken then the chassis will remain live until grounded by other means (ie touched). This could also explain why it's intermittent because the cable could be moving a lot.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja You can't do either of these on a Ti.. You can't even play 2 or 3 arps or 4 midi tracks at once without having to press the panic butten everyone 2 minutes now.

Awww, quit yer whining. OS 1.1 should be out any day now. That's what you get for being a trend whore

I'm no rocket scientist but when Access first announced it - I said: "wait at least a year after it's released or expect to have problems"... but nooooo... no one listened.

Oh well...

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Walsh LMFAO at any retard dissing the 303. I've got acid in my veins

Umm... yah... I c. I think you should stay off of LSD for a little while, child.

Oh, and 303 IS OVERRATED! That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Now, eat me.

Weird the Cheetah was mentioned. My buddy Vadim and I were just browsing VintageSynth the other day and were like "hmmm what's this Cheetah brand thing?"

So pretty decent sounds out of it eh?

emc^2, you got any super cool samples from it?

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