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Need help with making pads

hello all,
I've been trying to make a decent pad for some time now but just can't get the grip of it. I've searched the forums and such but still can't find a way to make them things. Is there any basics to it? I know a lot of people use the saw waveform for it and mess around with the ADSR envelopes. But i try and fail miserably . Im trying to get something around the pad Rank 1 used in "airwave" (http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF50606-01-01-01.mp3) or something from the 3xosc in fruity such as this, http://www.icone-music.be/iconeonli.../3xosc-pad.mp3.

If it helps any, Im using Fruity with the Superwave p8, Synth 1, Free Alpha, Triangle 2, and Fruity's stock synths.

Thanks in advance

You mean something like this?

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


Virus B + Fruity delay + SIR reverb = the daddy.

actually yeah, that sounded like the airwave pad which i am in love with. Unfortunately, i don't have a virus but im guessing the pad was made with two or more osc's with the saw wave, along with having them detuned. Does the LFO have a big part in it as well?

Those are the basics of it but its a far more complex than that.

The patch I built uses 3 oscillators per voice, all set to saw. Unison x5 with unison detune all the way up and panspread slightly. The second oscillator is detuned apart from the first quite alot.

Unison x5 = 5 voices at once = 5 x 3 oscillators per voice = 15 oscillators per voice.

I am playing that airwave melody using chords spanning 3 octaves so thats 3 notes at 15 oscillators per voice.

Whatever synth you use, you need some kind of unison because before delay effects and chorusing, this patch is playing back 45 progressively detuned and stereo widened saw waves. I used to not think the amount of saws mattered so much but after experimenting, getting that supersaw oscillator sound - you really do need to stack up a crazy number of saws to get close to the right timbre.

The pulsewidth of both oscillators is modulated using 2 separate LFOs positively and negatively in equal proportion. LFO clock set to 1/24. The second LFO clock set to 1/12.

The tuning of oscillators 1 and 2 are modulated using the first LFO.

All LFOs are set to triangle waves.

Additionally, a third LFO is modulating the pitch of both oscillator 1 and 2 positively and very rapidly. It isnt clocked. On my Virus B its 91 out of 127 and the amplitude is low/medium. You need this rapid oscillation to help fuzz the sound up.

This patch uses a 24 dB/Octave, 4 pole low pass filter with no resonance in series with a 12 dB/Octave, 2 pole low pass filter. Then the whole thing is mixed in slightly with a filter envelope. Sustain time is set to fall gradually and the attack is on both envelopes is high enough to remove the initial 'click.' Release time is long and coincides roughly with the length of the reverb tail that has been put on it (again on the virus).

Effects wise there is distortion on it. Specifically a rectifier with very low gain. Theres a chorus on there set to saw wave. The aforementioned reverb and 2x instances of Fruity Delay.

There was also alot of post EQ to make up for the deficiencies in the Virus oscillators - most notable of which is that they are not very bright at all. I still havent got the EQ right on and its a pretty slow process without monitors but hey...

A few instances of pro-53 will do the trick. Use saw waves, turn Unison on with analog set to 75%.

Take two sawtooths, detune them, +15 cents and -15 cents. Give it a long attack and release. Add reverb.

Oh eq the reverb so that the verb has more highs in it, so it echos out the hi freqs, that always sounds swell.

I always find 2 saws per voice isnt enough. It just sounds awfully thin. And a key part of the fuzziness of this type of sound comes from the rapid pitch modulation of all the saw oscillators.

I used to think 'nobody ever needs like 50 simultaneous detuned saws playing at the same time! poppycock!' but after several months of ongoing tinkering, I have come to the conclusion that unless you have some kind of special oscillator which simulates multiple detuned saws (i.e. supersaw on the JP-8000 and the hyper saw on the Virus TI), you need a fucking tonne of saws to achieve a similar kind of sound.

The only time I got the timbre down right was by rapidly modulating pulse width for both primary oscillators. In opposite directions. Ill post a sound test at some point in the next few days to demonstrate the kind of effect PWM has on this type of sound.

thanks for all of your input guys. Im starting to understand synthesis a lot better now. I'll try out some new things once I get home. We had a free day in class so i used it to check out the forums. Hopefully i'll get a sample up later on in my attempt with the knowledge i gained.

You DON'T need a ton of oscs to make a decent supersaw pad.
Here's an example of one I made using only 4 oscs. The synth is processed with distortion, chorus, EQ and reverb. I'm pretty sure something better could be made by just using 2 oscs on a synth with unison.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...B962A740C8E3437

IMO, if you start using too many oscs it will start to sound noisy, which isn't that good for pads.

quote:

Originally posted by Eldritch You DON'T need a ton of oscs to make a decent supersaw pad. Here's an example of one I made using only 4 oscs. The synth is processed with distortion, chorus, EQ and reverb. I'm pretty sure something better could be made by just using 2 oscs on a synth with unison. http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...B962A740C8E3437 IMO, if you start using too many oscs it will start to sound noisy, which isn't that good for pads.

If this is made with software synths, then you are the master. Lately I have been hearing tons of ugly softsynth-supersaw-simulations, this is nice for a change. What software/hardware synth did you use?

quote:

Originally posted by Thois If this is made with software synths, then you are the master. Lately I have been hearing tons of ugly softsynth-supersaw-simulations, this is nice for a change. What software/hardware synth did you use?

+1!

that is a really nice sounding pad!

it might be possible to make something similar with V-station. ill have a stab at it now...

man you da man eldritch! yeah im pretty sure that reason 3.0!

Right heres my attempt.

http://dj_sea.sitesled.com/V-Statio...ersaw%20pad.mp3

Using just the V-station. i followed the V-station supersaw tutorial i found in here a while back, and modified it to make a pad sound (by adding chorus, reverb, and delay, plus changing the attack/release)

edit: for those of you that dont know V-station only has 3 oscs.

hey is that the pad from Colorzone - Le Fil Rouge?

nice by the way very nice.

quote:

Originally posted by mzvirbulis hey is that the pad from Colorzone - Le Fil Rouge? nice by the way very nice.

i have no idea,

i just made the sound + played some random chords

Derivative - Nice tutorial.
What program you work with?

quote:

You DON'T need a ton of oscs to make a decent supersaw pad. Here's an example of one I made using only 4 oscs. The synth is processed with distortion, chorus, EQ and reverb. I'm pretty sure something better could be made by just using 2 oscs on a synth with unison. http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...B962A740C8E3437 IMO, if you start using too many oscs it will start to sound noisy, which isn't that good for pads.

Yes you do. Your pad uses more than 4 oscillators. Dont forget that the output of the synth is generated in terms of oscillators per voice. Also note that Unison stacks voices onto a single note so you are in fact using much much more than 4 oscillators. And no you wont be able to achieve with 2 oscillators something that is comparible with 4 oscillators. You have half the potential harmonic content. If you make a better supersaw with a 2 osc synth than a 4 osc synth then it is because of:

1) deficiences in the oscillator.

and/or

2) you simply arent using all 4 oscillators to their fullest extent within the context of the sound.

Also, your pad, though nice sounding doesnt quite compare to the timbre of a supersaw. Its still too thin to replicate what a supersaw does.

quote:

Derivative - Nice tutorial. What program you work with?

I use FL Studio but I do all my sound design using my Access Virus B, G-Media impOSCar and Soundforge's built in FM synthesis.

well unfortunately i couldnt work on pads due to some problems back at the house (mother with my school work habits ). This is all really useful information and I'm eager to try all this out. Derivative, so if more OSC's (4 plus?) leads to a better pad, is the maelstrom and subtractor within Reason 3.0 out of the question, or is it possible to layer 2 of whichever synth since (i think) both only have 2 osc's? I am probably gonna get Reason 3.0 with Cubase SE so that i can slave Reason and use cubase for VSTi and Hardware synths. Dang, I really gotta practice all this.

No. More oscillators does not necessarily = better pads.

More oscillators = more potential more adding more harmonic content.

Supersaws are incredibly rich in harmonics. All I am saying is that it took me 45 detuned saws to get close to the sound using a Virus B. This cannot even be played within the 24 voice limit on the synth without dropping out voices (which sounds crap). I had to render the excess voices and play it back with the instrument to avoid the voice steal.

That airwave pad is a JP-80X0. No doubt. I have spent quite a few months now on and off replicating the supersaw oscillator on that synth using a Virus B. I think its doable but you need alot of post processing (namely EQ to make up for some of the deficiencies in the Virus saw oscillators).

Here is the latest iteration of the Virus B emulation supersaw pad:

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


(sorry about the FL Studio output. Its pretty cold and I didnt have time to squash all the transients and gain up in soundforge. A little something to do over the weekend I think...)

You can actually make up for the lack of oscillators and voices on a softsynth, by cloning the instrument and detuning each oscillator slighly apart and widen each instance progressively. The point is you cannot make a supersaw like in that airwave abstract using 1 instance of reFX Vanguard. You will get closer with 2 or 3 instances though. Actually, I might even try that and see how it fares. The filter on Vanguard is bollocks though and I cant modulate pulsewidth. Bah. But it should sound better than your average single patch knock off.

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