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Tips & Low Prices, or No Tips & Higher Prices
One thing I have never been able to understand is the concept of tips. How did this start? How did it become mandatory in some situations?
Take waiters/bartenders for example. Why am I paying them for the job they are supposed to be doing - isn't that the employer's responsibility? I can understand slipping the girl a $20 because she unbuttened a few buttons on her blouse while serving you, or because she let you grab her ass when you got drunk, or because she'll meet you out back when you leave, but how did that evolve into "well, I'm serving you, so you should pay me for it."? No, bitch, you aren't serving me, your company is - they are providing the service of me sitting on my ass while my food is prepared and brought over to me. I'm not going to the restaurant to see *you*; I'm going there to get some good food brought over to me, and I should pay for that, and that only. From there on, it's up the company to decide how much to pay you to keep your ass happy. I go there to eat, not to sit there and figure out competitive wages for you.
Furthermore, I like to see what I will be paying on paper, right in front of me. It makes choosing shit that fits my budget that much easier. If all restaurants/bars just tacked and 15% onto all their prices and didn't make me pay tip, I'd be that much happier. If I buy a $30 steak and a $5 dollar coke, I know that exactly $35 will be leaving my pocket, instead of $25 plus some amount up to me to determine to keep your ass from spitting in my food the next time I go there. I really don't want that responsibility. I just want my food.
I know it's a great scheme on the side of the restaurant because you think you'll be paying less than what you actually be paying. But fuck, when I go to Walmart and buy a $5 picture frame, they don't tack on 10 dollars worth of Walmart-charges that I don't see till I come to the cash register, do they? No, they just make me pay $15.
And on the topic of cashiers, why do coatcheck people have tip jars? Where the hell did that come from? Why not cashiers in clothing stores? Let's compare - coatcheck staff: takes your money, and put your clothes on a hanger; cashier: takes your money, and takes clothes off a hanger, folds them, and puts them in a bag. One expects a tip and one doesn't; what the fuck's the difference?
WHY AM I NOT PAYING THE SALESPERSON'S COMMISSION DIRECTLY WHEN THEY SELL ME SOMETHING IN A BOUTIQUE?
So, please, vote, and try to clear up my confusion. Much appreciated.
P.S. To all the bartenders/wait staff that read this that feel like bitching at me how they hate people like me who don't tip, I'd just like to let you know I DO tip. I have a calculator on my cellphone; it works out. I just don't get why I'm doing it. And if you hate the people that tip, wouldn't you be happier with no tipping and a higher wage too?
i voted low prices, with tips extra.
simply because i feel those who provide great service deserve a big reward, and those who do not, deserve sweet fuck all.
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| Originally posted by Floorwhore i voted low prices, with tips extra. simply because i feel those who provide great service deserve a big reward, and those who do not, deserve sweet fuck all. |
oh shit.
anyone studying economics?
there's a VERY good explanation on how tips are beneficial to the Economy.
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| Originally posted by Sasha oh shit. anyone studying economics? there's a VERY good explanation on how tips are beneficial to the Economy. |
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| Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Tax evasion? Took eco100 and eco200, not one mention of tips. |
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| Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Valid point, but why don't we tip our cashier, our salesperson, our dentist, our lanscaper, our mechanic, our councellor, our civic worker, or our help support? All these people can give you either great or crappy service. |
I am not sure why some people get "tips" and some don't. I agree with you when you say it doesn't make a lot of sense.
However, people who work in the catering business, like waiters, bartenders etc. get paid a lower minimum wage than the actual minimum wage itself.
So, without tips, they make about a dollar less an hour than someone making minimum at McDonalds.
The rule actually states something along the lines of "the minimum wage for anyone who serves alcohol is $6.40".
This in my mind seems TOTALLY backwards. A person serving alcohol has a lot more liabilities on their shoulders than someone serving burgers. You also have to be certified, which is a 50-60 dollar course for the Smart Serve, not to mention the cost of the time involved, and then for bartenders, an entire semester worth of time, plus school fees.
If anything, those who are serving alcohol should be paid more for the many inconveniences the job presents. Dealing with inebriated assholes, liability, harassment (always happens), training and time spent to be qualified.
In our society, it is generally accepted that the more school you take, the more training you recieve, the higher you should be paid later. It kind of evens itself out. When it comes to alcohol servers, and normal minimum wage workers, it doesn't correlate.
In other words, if you don't tip, the job isn't worth it.
The "you tip because they get lower wages" argument is a catch-22 argument because wait staff and bartenders get lower wages precisely because people tip.
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| Originally posted by Cosmic Fur The "you tip because they get lower wages" argument is a catch-22 argument because wait staff and bartenders get lower wages precisely because people tip. |
I am a server, just as a starting point... and I think I understand your confusion.
I think the ability to have some control over the wage of the person who is serving you is a good way to ensure you will receive quality service. Think about it this way, who is more likely to serve you well, someone who is being paid a flat rate of $12 an hour, with NO incentive to try harder? OR someone who knows that YOU, the customer, will be making the decision as to how well to reward the service you receive?
Trust me... I like it the way it IS. Because , I'm a pretty good server, and I tend to make pretty good money at it. But even still, it is pretty RARE that you will be tipped even 15%! I find that the average is 10%. Which to my mind isn't really acceptable. In today's day and age EVERYBODY knows that you tip in North America when you go to a restaurant to eat. It's a fact. And until they change the wage, (which incidentally is $6.75 an hour) tipping should stay.
It shouldn't really be confusing though. If you get good service, tip well! Bad service, take it off the tip!
Also, consider the amount of things that can go WRONG for a server that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what that person has control over or not... bad food, slow food, watered down drinks, hair in food... difficulty getting a table, errors by bussing people... these are ALL things that have the perception of being bad service, but as a server, I have NO control over them.
I went to Europe last year, where tipping is not traditional, and their service people make a MUCH higher wage to compensate. And actually, I didn't find a lower level of service, so you might be onto something. Maybe tips SHOULD be automatic. It would help people who seem to think that 10% is a good tip!! Buggers.
Re: Tips & Low Prices, or No Tips & Higher Prices
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Cosmic Fur One thing I have never been able to understand is the concept of tips. How did this start? How did it become mandatory in some situations? Take waiters/bartenders for example. Why am I paying them for the job they are supposed to be doing - isn't that the employer's responsibility? I can understand slipping the girl a $20 because she unbuttened a few buttons on her blouse while serving you, or because she let you grab her ass when you got drunk, or because she'll meet you out back when you leave, but how did that evolve into "well, I'm serving you, so you should pay me for it."? No, bitch, you aren't serving me, your company is - they are providing the service of me sitting on my ass while my food is prepared and brought over to me. I'm not going to the restaurant to see *you*; I'm going there to get some good food brought over to me, and I should pay for that, and that only. From there on, it's up the company to decide how much to pay you to keep your ass happy. I go there to eat, not to sit there and figure out competitive wages for you. Furthermore, I like to see what I will be paying on paper, right in front of me. It makes choosing shit that fits my budget that much easier. If all restaurants/bars just tacked and 15% onto all their prices and didn't make me pay tip, I'd be that much happier. If I buy a $30 steak and a $5 dollar coke, I know that exactly $35 will be leaving my pocket, instead of $25 plus some amount up to me to determine to keep your ass from spitting in my food the next time I go there. I really don't want that responsibility. I just want my food. I know it's a great scheme on the side of the restaurant because you think you'll be paying less than what you actually be paying. But fuck, when I go to Walmart and buy a $5 picture frame, they don't tack on 10 dollars worth of Walmart-charges that I don't see till I come to the cash register, do they? No, they just make me pay $15. And on the topic of cashiers, why do coatcheck people have tip jars? Where the hell did that come from? Why not cashiers in clothing stores? Let's compare - coatcheck staff: takes your money, and put your clothes on a hanger; cashier: takes your money, and takes clothes off a hanger, folds them, and puts them in a bag. One expects a tip and one doesn't; what the fuck's the difference? WHY AM I NOT PAYING THE SALESPERSON'S COMMISSION DIRECTLY WHEN THEY SELL ME SOMETHING IN A BOUTIQUE? So, please, vote, and try to clear up my confusion. Much appreciated. P.S. To all the bartenders/wait staff that read this that feel like bitching at me how they hate people like me who don't tip, I'd just like to let you know I DO tip. I have a calculator on my cellphone; it works out. I just don't get why I'm doing it. And if you hate the people that tip, wouldn't you be happier with no tipping and a higher wage too? |
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| Originally posted by Floorwhore which is the way it should be. wait staff who do their jobs exceptionally, will earn great tips. those who dont, will not get tips, and likely look for another job. which will keep the industry filled with those meant to be serving. |
After working at Boa in coat check and at bar I strongly believe in tipping, no matter what the base price is. These waiters, bartenders, and really anyone in the service industry work their asses off at what they do.
There were many times that I wouldn't get tipped while working, and to be honest that was fine, spend your money as you see fit. But it really helped in the long run when I would go home with that extra cash in my pocket. It also made me feel like I was doing my job well when people would throw something in my tip jar. As well I know that most people will work harder, faster and more efficient if they think that they are being appreciated. In this industry it is showed by tips that you are given, along with a smile and a thank you.
my general understanding of it is that most waiters don't get paid too well, so they greatly depend on tips to make the bulk of their money. So that way it encourages them to give better service.
Re: Re: Tips & Low Prices, or No Tips & Higher Prices
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| Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty i dub thee Mr. Pink |
^^ its crap though, cause you in the coat check do exactly what cosmic_fur says you do. take a coat, and hang it up. whoop de fuckign do
i worked in a kitchen in a busy restaurant, and the kitchen got 10% of the total monthly tips (and thats even if the waiters reported it).
we worked WAY harder than the prissy short skirt-ed boobs hanging out smiling waitresses and got paid the same. A junior line cook makes the same as waiting staff (At least in BC)
next time you are in a restaruant and get good service, think about the people making the food - thats a MUCH tougher job than the waitress.
the waitress/waiter just smiles and brings it to you.
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| Originally posted by Enraptured Think about it this way, who is more likely to serve you well, someone who is being paid a flat rate of $12 an hour, with NO incentive to try harder? OR someone who knows that YOU, the customer, will be making the decision as to how well to reward the service you receive? |
Some restaurants use an "auto-gratuity" for parties of 10 or over, or whatever. Ours does not. The thinking is, of course, the age-old argument, that servers will not give as good service to people who they KNOW they are getting the 15% from.
The problem with this arises when you have a party of twenty teenagers... and you work your ass off bringing them drinks and food for three hours, and make $3.72
It's happened. Or even better, one or two skip out on their bill and you wind up PAYING for them to eat there that night. That's a treat.
I'm sure I'm not really arguing one side or the other here, just adding information to the debate.
All I have to say is that I'm glad I don't have to RELY on this income to make a living. I have a full-time day job. But I'll tell you, if you've ever seen a girl CRYING because she had a shitty night, and got ripped off, and probably won't be able to make a car payment because of it... you might feel differently. And tip differently.
Just a thought.
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| Originally posted by Enraptured But even still, it is pretty RARE that you will be tipped even 15%! I find that the average is 10%. Which to my mind isn't really acceptable. In today's day and age EVERYBODY knows that you tip in North America when you go to a restaurant to eat. |
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| Originally posted by Enraptured In today's day and age EVERYBODY knows that you tip in North America when you go to a restaurant to eat. It's a fact. |
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| Originally posted by simms327 ^^ its crap though, cause you in the coat check do exactly what cosmic_fur says you do. take a coat, and hang it up. whoop de fuckign do i worked in a kitchen in a busy restaurant, and the kitchen got 10% of the total monthly tips (and thats even if the waiters reported it). we worked WAY harder than the prissy short skirt-ed boobs hanging out smiling waitresses and got paid the same. A junior line cook makes the same as waiting staff (At least in BC) next time you are in a restaruant and get good service, think about the people making the food - thats a MUCH tougher job than the waitress. the waitress/waiter just smiles and brings it to you. |
no, i haven't served, but i see your point.
like all arguments, it depends on where you work, and what the arrangment is. The place I worked was crappy. I left after a month, and got a non-service job.
the previous post was a vent...
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| Originally posted by Floorwhore If my server... a.) is friendly and polite b.) comes by and asks how the meal is c.) checks every once in a while for refills d.) asks how every thing was when bringing the bill i usually tip 20% if they fail to do any of the above mentioned, knock off roughly 5% for each missed. |
The manager needs to make sure that his workers don�t slack, since the manager cannot monitor every worker in the restaurant there should be some sort of incentives. so TIPS are incentives.
The harder they work the more money they get.
If they had a high fixed salary with no tips, they would have no interest to work harder and provide a better service. So tips work just great for all: managers (they are sure their workers do a good job), waiters, bartenders (they have a possibility to earn some extra cash) and customers, who get a better service for the same price as if the amount of tips was included in the menu, plus they can evaluate price the service themselves.
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