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Here's one for you Jay

from citynews.ca

quote:

Gov't. Introduces Bill To Raise Age Of Consent Thursday June 22, 2006 It's stood unchanged for years, but the federal Conservatives moved to change that on Thursday, introducing a bill that will alter the age of consent in Canada. Currently, a teen can legally consent to sex when they're 14 years of age. But under the bill introduced by Justice Minister Vic Toews, that benchmark would rise by two years to 16. The idea isn't to keep kids from becoming sexually active at too young an age - a task that's almost impossible to legislate - but to protect youngsters from adults who might try to take advantage of their innocence. Toews explains the change has become necessary because of a change in society - the coming of the Internet has created a virtual Wild West for pedophiles and the laws need to be strengthened to close any loopholes. But what about young adults having relationships - and relations - with other kids? The bill prevents the criminalization of teen sex by adding in a 'near-exemption' of five years. That means a 14-year-old could still partner with a 19-year-old, while a 15-year-old could be with someone who's 20 and wouldn't be breaking the law. Child advocates applaud the bill and hope the minority Tories can ram it through. "Bottom line is it's going to add 14 and 15-year-olds to the mix of a no-go zone," outlines John Muise of the Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness. "So if you're a 40-year-old predator and you want to have sex with a 14 or a 15-year-old boy or girl, you can't anymore. And it's as simple as that. So it used to be 13. Now it's 14 and 15." But the law won't completely affect some existing prohibitions. It still pins the age of protection at 18 for any sexually exploitive activity like prostitution or pornography. How do teens feel about the idea? "I really do think that the age of consent should be raised to 16, for the fact . I have a lot more knowledge about sex than I did when I was 14," a caller named Arthur told CityOnline. "You know, I didn't know about the sexually transmitted diseases that were out there, about any sort of protection that I would have to use." Critics are angry at the alteration, insisting the Conservatives are simply trying to legislate morality and have no business in the bedrooms of its citizens. Muise disagrees. "I think [the five year exemption] blows out of the water the concern that some of the people on the other side of this issue had," he concludes. Will the bill get the aegis of consent on the Hill? Muise claims he's talked to N.D.P. MPs who have enough numbers to push any vote through. He insists they've told him they wanted the exemption and now that they've got it, they're prepared to support the bill. What the Age Of Protection Act will do Raise age of consent for sex from 14 to 16. Offers 'five year exemption' for 14 and 15 year olds who engage in sex with partners less than five years older, so as not to criminalize their behaviour. Continues to bar sexually exploitive activity until age 18. Time limited exemption would protect 14 or 15 year olds who are legally married or living in common law relationships.

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie

Dude. Tell me your secret. where do you get these hilarious images?

I agree with this. I especially agree with the time exemption of 5 years. 14 year olds should not be subjected to 40 year olds etc etc. 16 is a decent age for that. They should also lower the gay consent age from 18 to 16 though.

the 5 year exemption is key to this getting through...without out, it would have been defeated in a heartbeat (and I'd 100% support that defeat). "criminalizing" sex between consenting minors is ridiculous and would have been a massive step backwards.

I still fail to see the point of the change though...it's another bill that sounds good on paper and appeases older, conservative voters. Essentially this just makes it easier to prosecute older people having sex with 14 and 15 yr. olds without the need to of showing that their was no consent on the part of the minor.

like the street racing bill, it's not "bad" legislation...but it's on the fluffy, pointless side, IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I agree with this. I especially agree with the time exemption of 5 years. 14 year olds should not be subjected to 40 year olds etc etc. 16 is a decent age for that. They should also lower the gay consent age from 18 to 16 though.

WHAT THE FUCK... Captain anti-social engineering is supporting a social engineering initiative.... WHAT ABOUT INDVIDUAL LIBERTIES????

Seriously, you've really just solidified to everyone reading this fourm that you are nothing more then a conservative party hack. How can you possibly bitch about every type of social engineering policy that comes along without regard for it's merits but then support this one? Why just this one? Oh, yeah, because the CPC thought of it. You've just blown all credibility you had with me.

i dont think protecting 14 year olds from adults is a bad thing.

you are right though, the key to this is the 5 year exemption. Without it, id be against it completely

I think the 5 year difference should be reduced. 20 with a 15 year old? Come on. One is halfway through college and the other barely started highschool. I think 3 years is fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard WHAT THE FUCK... Captain anti-social engineering is supporting a social engineering initiative.... WHAT ABOUT INDVIDUAL LIBERTIES???? Seriously, you've really just solidified to everyone reading this fourm that you are nothing more then a conservative party hack. How can you possibly bitch about every type of social engineering policy that comes along without regard for it's merits but then support this one? Why just this one? Oh, yeah, because the CPC thought of it. You've just blown all credibility you had with me.

hahah i knew this was coming..


I have always advocated the right of ADULTS to make their own decsions. I also have always believed that children should be protected from adults in certain situations..

Nothing has changed my friend..

children should NOT have the right to drink, smoke and do other things that should be (but are not thanks to recent legislation) ADULT choices to make. However i do think that the drinking and smoking age should be reduced to 18 (the age when you are legally an adult in the eyes of the law)

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 hahah i knew this was coming.. I have always advocated the right of ADULTS to make their own decsions. I also have always believed that children should be protected from adults in certain situations.. Nothing has changed my friend.. children should NOT have the right to drink, smoke and do other things that should be (but are not thanks to recent legislation) ADULT choices to make. However i do think that the drinking and smoking age should be reduced to 18 (the age when you are legally an adult in the eyes of the law)

Hmmm, is there any evidence to support that a 14 year old is not capable of making decisions regarding sex but a 16 year old is?

Regardless of how you justify your position you are still being inconsistant. If social engineering is bad then why is it okay so long as it's only children that we seek to control. I know, you'll say because children are incapable of making a wise decision in matters such as sex/drinking/smoking.... right? Can the same not be said about adults who are addicted to nicotine when it comes to smoking? Or alcoholics when it comes to hours of operation for taverns? Clearly none of the groups identified above can make a wise decision regarding these things. So, why is it okay for the nanny state to exist for children but not for adults who may be equally incapable of making informed and wise decisions?

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur I think the 5 year difference should be reduced. 20 with a 15 year old? Come on. One is halfway through college and the other barely started highschool. I think 3 years is fine.

+1

the problem here is the CPC legislating morality...the existing age of consent of 14 has been so for a century...and 15 yr. olds are a LOT more 'in the know' than they were 50 years ago (or even 20 years ago)

now, do *I* think that a 15 yr old should be sleeping with a 30 yr. old? hell no.

but do I think the gov't has any business legislating around that MORAL feeling of mine? hell no.

as with the street racing bill, we HAVE other laws in place already that address more relavant (and common) situations...the age of consent becomes 18 from 14 when the adult in question is in any kind of position of authority or trust over the minor...so teens are already protected from teachers, neighbours, employers, coaches, etc. and anyone else who could more easily coerce them into a sexual situation because of their existing relationship with them or because of their occupying a position of trust.

I'm not sure how many unsuspecting 14 and 15 yr olds are being preyed upon by complete strangers here...and isn't this an issue for PARENTS to solve? How the fuck is your 14 and 15 yr. old getting out there to sleep with some older person anyway?

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Originally posted by MarkT How the fuck is your 14 and 15 yr. old getting out there to sleep with some older person anyway?

I thought the kids gave their parents a Wendy's Bacon and Mushroom Melt.

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Originally posted by MarkT I'm not sure how many unsuspecting 14 and 15 yr olds are being preyed upon by complete strangers here...and isn't this an issue for PARENTS to solve? How the fuck is your 14 and 15 yr. old getting out there to sleep with some older person anyway?

It's a lot easier than you think! There are opportunities for young girls to meet older men all the time! For example, a lot of kids go to Wonderland, but then again so do a lot of older people. All it takes is a young girl going out there with her friends - because god knows parents aren't going to keep them locked in all the time, and either ways, it's only Wonderland, right? - and there you have it. Young girl meets older guy, they hook up, the girl gets her girlfriends to cover for her, saying she's going to sleepovers at their house and really spends the night with the older boyfriend with her parents being non the wiser.

Believe me, parents are not necessarily to blame. Unless you lock up your kid 24/7, this type of thing will happen.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Hmmm, is there any evidence to support that a 14 year old is not capable of making decisions regarding sex but a 16 year old is? Regardless of how you justify your position you are still being inconsistant. If social engineering is bad then why is it okay so long as it's only children that we seek to control. I know, you'll say because children are incapable of making a wise decision in matters such as sex/drinking/smoking.... right? Can the same not be said about adults who are addicted to nicotine when it comes to smoking? Or alcoholics when it comes to hours of operation for taverns? Clearly none of the groups identified above can make a wise decision regarding these things. So, why is it okay for the nanny state to exist for children but not for adults who may be equally incapable of making informed and wise decisions?

Children are considered children for a reason. If you cannot see the difference between a child making an adult decision and an adult making an adult decision i kind of feel sorry for you.

By 18 you should know better and if you dont, then its your problem. As a child you are still developing mentally and physically.

The problem i have is when the government legislates these decisions for adults.

Now the other half of the equation should be dealt with. If girls arent to be touched by adults in a sexual way until 16, they should not be walking around looking like hookers until that age. But that is a parental duty. The sex thing isnt for the reasons loca stated.

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Dude. Tell me your secret. where do you get these hilarious images?

It's not always the picture itself, it's the delivery. Some I reuse, some I make myself. I do quick jobs with PaintShop Pro v 3.12-32.

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie It's not always the picture itself, it's the delivery. Some I reuse, some I make myself. I do quick jobs with PaintShop Pro v 3.12-32.

Regardless, you're a master.

I once dated a 31yr old mom of a 17 year old hottie when I was just 19.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT now, do *I* think that a 15 yr old should be sleeping with a 30 yr. old? hell no. but do I think the gov't has any business legislating around that MORAL feeling of mine? hell no. . . . . I'm not sure how many unsuspecting 14 and 15 yr olds are being preyed upon by complete strangers here...and isn't this an issue for PARENTS to solve? How the fuck is your 14 and 15 yr. old getting out there to sleep with some older person anyway?

^^ EXAXCTLY!!!!

yeah but are you guys 15? No!

So you are right...the government has no business in your business.

its fucked up how the same people who advocate the government taking away many adult rights, also think that the government should let kids have the right to make adult choices.

Its really messed up in my opinion

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie I once dated a 31yr old mom of a 17 year old hottie when I was just 19.

How hot was the daughter! Sweet, you should have hooked up with both! That'd be awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by TO guy Regardless, you're a master.

*aw shucks*

This could happen to YOUR sons one day: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0519063nc1.html

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Children are considered children for a reason. If you cannot see the difference between a child making an adult decision and an adult making an adult decision i kind of feel sorry for you. By 18 you should know better and if you dont, then its your problem. As a child you are still developing mentally and physically. The problem i have is when the government legislates these decisions for adults.

So, children need to be cared for because they are mentally deficient compared to adults... okay I gottcha..... but what about adults that are mentally deficient compared to other adults. You still have not addressed my question with regard to addicts.... they are incapable of making a responsible decision due to their addiction... should we not care for them? If so, why not... because they're older then 18? Does that not seem a somewhat flimsy and arbitrary reason?

What I'm getting at is you cannot have it both ways. If you are going to legislate morality or socially engineer any one group then all groups must be fair game. I cannot believe you, Mr. Libertarian, of all people cannot see that.

(BTW, I don't support 14 year olds gettin' freaky)

quote:

Originally posted by Jem_hadar How hot was the daughter! Sweet, you should have hooked up with both! That'd be awesome.

She was, and I had her permission to date her daughter after we broke up, but no luck together. At least I walked away from that one a bonafide MOFO.

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie She was, and I had her permission to date her daughter after we broke up, but no luck together. At least I walked away from that one a bonafide MOFO.

lol, I always wondered how that got turned into an insult.

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