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-- What parts of production do pros really do themselves?
What parts of production do pros really do themselves?
Please enlighten me...
Um... most trance/EDM artists have their own studios at their home. And most do everything except post-production themselves.
Then there are the people who use engineers but I'm not even going there...
Rock bands rent studio time.
If you've got the cash it makes sense to use an engineer. You have some nice gear at home that you do rough edits on, then you go into the studio and work along-side the engineer. That way you still take control of the most creative elements and then the engineer helps you gel it all together.
i wouldn't think it's uncommon that EDM producers send off their tracks for "professional" mixing/mastering and just do all the actual composing and arranging themselves.
It'll help you finish tracks much quicker, and saying that I have to post this Ferry Corsten interview that I think is so true:
"Trance.nu: In your latest releases we can hear a lot of electro influences. On the various internet forums, I�ve read that a lot of people would like you to produce a track again with the trance sound that was popular in 1999. What do you think about that?
Ferry: I think it would be great to make a �1999 feel� track again and I�m sure that I�m going to do another huge trance bomb in the future for sure. I have to admit that when I�m comparing the 1999 trance music, with the trance music that�s being released nowadays, that the 1999 tracks are a lot more spontaneous. The old tracks have been produced in probably 1 or 2 days, so they just took the moment and than the melody and the beats were put together. In my opinion, producers had more of a �Wow� feeling when they composed a cool melody. I have that feeling a lot more with the old productions. Nowadays people are way too busy with making a track just perfect. I mean that now they are focussing more on the production, how it�s sounding and if a certain hi-hat sound is good etc. Don�t get me wrong, that�s cool if you like it, but in my opinion it would be nice if people would return to the old way of producing and I would like to do it myself as well of course. More spontaneous."
^i do that =) lol
Ferry: I think it would be great to make a �1999 feel� track again and I�m sure that I�m going to do another huge trance bomb in the future for sure. I have to admit that when I�m comparing the 1999 trance music, with the trance music that�s being released nowadays, that the 1999 tracks are a lot more spontaneous. The old tracks have been produced in probably 1 or 2 days, so they just took the moment and than the melody and the beats were put together. In my opinion, producers had more of a �Wow� feeling when they composed a cool melody. I have that feeling a lot more with the old productions. Nowadays people are way too busy with making a track just perfect. I mean that now they are focussing more on the production, how it�s sounding and if a certain hi-hat sound is good etc. Don�t get me wrong, that�s cool if you like it, but in my opinion it would be nice if people would return to the old way of producing and I would like to do it myself as well of course. More spontaneous." [/QUOTE]
Wow 100% spot on! I look foward to see what he brings us!
Personally I love the super clean polished sound of most of todays tracks.
I think you should make the melodies first, then go on with the production bit. Just because you make a nice melody, and that's what you're focusing on, doesn't mean you can't make that hihat sound better. Na'a'm'say'n?
To get back to topic I think most producers do produce all the pre-production. Then a ral engineer get's in there and makes the sound more crystal-clear: fine-tuning the mix and mastering. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I mean, the record company is releasing it, of course they want it to sound the best it can.
it is only a few whom can finance that. Not many producers even need an engineer, that's why they're a producer in the first place.
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| Originally posted by dj_palm i just recieved some vinyls of my first release and i got to say: its sounds ALOT better then it did on my computer. so they did something... for free... without asking... and im realy happy with the result. |
I came over from the rock and metal scene, and of course with that style of music you normally rent studio time to record. You have everything you need there including a sound engineer and a producer. EDM is so different. Everything can be done on a home computer.
Composing and arranging comes easy for me. I do the best I can on the technical side of my productions, EQ, compression, ect, but it sure would be lot easier if I had a pro audio engineer to help me get that pro sound. The mixing process drives me a little mental, because I'm such a perfectionist. It is tricky at times to get that certain lead synth to stand out without being overbearing, or to get that certain kick to stand out without raising the volume. If I had a pro helping me with the mixing it would make things go a lot quicker. Mixing is the slowest part of the whole process for me, and I don't ever look forward to it. A few of my online friends that produce have offered to help me out, the problem is that they use Cubase and I use Fruity Loops. Oh well!
I've considered going the route of hiring pro studio help, but that can get expensive of course. I don't live near enough to a city either, so lugging my PC to a studio would be kind of a pain. Everything can be done via online services of course, from mixing to mastering, but I would really want to be physically present for a mixing session. Not to mention that I would have to bounce every track to a wave file.
The only thing I'm seriously considering is getting my tracks mastered via an online service, it's pretty simple to send a wavefile. Something to try at least. From what I understand, proper mastering can make a lot of difference.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by dj_palm i just recieved some vinyls of my first release and i got to say: its sounds ALOT better then it did on my computer. so they did something... for free... without asking... and im realy happy with the result. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by dj_palm i just recieved some vinyls of my first release and i got to say: its sounds ALOT better then it did on my computer. so they did something... for free... without asking... and im realy happy with the result. |
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| Originally posted by dj_palm well i think its all compression/maximazing and somehow the track sounds wider and with more room/space and less agresive on ears. tho im pretty sure they didnt eq it. |
I'd rather do everything myself though. It will take me 10 years longer to get a record signed probably and I will have to finally enroll on a sound engineering course and work full time to pay for it.
But damn, at least I can say at the end of it that I made it on my own and that I learned so much whilst doing it. I firmly believe that it will show in the end result. You just need to give me another 8 years and 40 grand until you get your socks blown off.
If Vibrasphere can do it, I can do it. And I wont be happy until my songs are better than Vibrasphere's.
I appreciate this is a fucking mammoth task but the best part of life's marathon is chasing down the dudes at the front and overtaking them before the finish line (The finish line = DEATH by the way, at least by my definition).
Going by that logic, I have an estimated 46 years to beat those prodigies at their own game. Better get cracking then 
Now I am finally getting monitors (dynaudio BM5as) I am in the process of sorting out my room acoustics and starting to read about coupling/decoupling. Back to reading I guess.
Hey Derivative what are you doing here, you're banned!
Well I'll probably have to do the same because I pretend I don't mind if my stuff is top quality, but underneath I'll always be a perfectionist. And I'm skint.
Another thing is where you stay. I stay in a flat with thin walls, people above and below me in a posh, mostly elderly populated area. I can only use my hi-fi speakers occasionally, any other time I have to use headphones. There's no point in me buying monitors because I don't finish university for another 2 years and even then I might have to get a flat.
Boo-hoo poor me
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| Originally posted by PutBoy Only thing I do when mastering is really add some compressors. Almost never dare to touch the EQ. |
Then you aren't even near what mastering is. It's not just about getting the track louder. EQ is one the most important parts of mastering and requires not only very good monitors, good ears, very flat room accoustics but very good EQ's also.
Re: What parts of production do pros really do themselves?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Synchronicity C'mon, lets be really honest here. Let's say for example Ferry Corsten, Armin Van Burren, Mauro Picotto and the Thrillseekers. Usually, they rent a studio for X days, working with an excellent engineer. I know this (in regard to other bands/djs) from speaking to engineers. They either show the engineer a rough sketch they've built up at home or just write the whole track at the studio. The engineer will EQ, compress, add suitable delay, tune drums, adjust levels, provide work-arounds for problems etc. I enjoy compressing, eqing etc. to a certain degree but I probably get nowhere near as polished a sound as what an engineer would. And you know what, I don't give a shit  I'm just thinking out loud, take it how you want  |
@tecnolover: EQing isn't a part of mastering...the mastering stage isn't supposed to do all that "magical stuff."
As stated by Arksun:
| quote: |
| Also what are you using for monitoring. The better your monitors (and acoustic space / listening position ) , the easier it is to hear exactly where the problems lie, making it much easier to fix the eq/levels/width etc etc. It's really driving me crazy now, everyone expects everything to be fixed by 'mastering' and that mastering is some amazing magic wand. |
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Haha, well, my point was more in terms of the way 'mastering' has been marketed and thats the manufacturer's fault. All these plugins are out now brandished with the word 'mastering' on it, giving the amatuer producers this idea that that's where all the fixing lies with making a track sound good. I just think some the new generation of producers need to be re-educated to understanding that its really about getting the fundamentals as rock solid as possible to really make a track sound good. Really that's something that applies to many things, whether its learning a martial art, or building a house!. If the foundations are solid the rest follows smoothly. Dodgy foundations and you spend far too much time and effort trying to stabilise and support the structure at a later stage (just like mastering) Mastering should be about giving that final polish to an already balanced track, yes some corrections can be made, and made well in skilled hands using high end tools, minimum phase multiband compression etc. But again, its the old 'you can't polish a turd' scenario. There's really no specific advice that can be given for these sort of things, its a question of learning to listen to music in a way that you can deconstruct it and realize what needs boosting/cutting where. Use reference material, our perception of sound changes all the time as the brain constantly re-adjusts the frequency balance (in the same way as when you've been wearing coloured tint glasses for a while, when you take them off you get a negative colour shift until the balance re-settles again). Play tracks you know are well engineered through your speakers/headphones and relate to that whilst producing. nec218, you mentioned the pads clashing with the hihats, have you tried just using eq to roll off the higher frequencies on the pad sound?. Or perhaps that particular sound has too much fizzyness to it, or heavy aliasing, and you need to find a sound that just has a smoother top end. More often than not, I'll change the choice of sound itself, than use one that's causing technical issues trying to fix it to make it fit in more. |
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| Originally posted by Lindo @tecnolover: EQing isn't a part of mastering...the mastering stage isn't supposed to do all that "magical stuff." |
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| Originally posted by -mk- EQing is definetly a part of mastering. It's the most important part of it. |
Re: Re: What parts of production do pros really do themselves?
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| Originally posted by steve@thethrill Ha - that's funny! No engineer in my studio! S |
If you recorded everything well, you should not have to use much, if any EQ. I would consider it a compliment if I handed my productions over to an engineer and he said he didnt really have to EQ anything. However, my mixdowns aint anywhere near that good yet.
If you are efficient with headroom and manage dynamics and dynamic range well, you wont really have to add much compression in the mastering stage either.
Mastering is just a catch all term to make a recording tonally homogenous if it is not already. You can use your proverbial hammers, nails, screws saws whatever. It doesnt matter. Neither is more important than the other. It depends entirely on whats wrong with the mixdown in the first place.
However, if you find you have to do alot of work to get a record up to scratch in the mastering stage, the mixdown wasnt as good as it could be. Or theres a conflict of interest between the producer and the engineer. Eh.
The only thing I can think of that is firmly in mastering territory is dithering and thats always the last process in the signal chain. At least, it should be.
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