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CD-R reliability

hey TA's

recently i purchased some cdj's and was about to go and buy some cd-r's
though atm i not going to buy any until i find the brand for me. i know it may seem stupid but really i dont want to buy poor quality discs.

like there will be cds with 1000 errors and still work then another brand with 10,000 error and dont work.

what do you suggest?

what do the pro's use mostly?

is there any website with any recent survey of quality of cd-r's?

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A lot depends on how you treat the CDs and even more on the quality of your initial recording, but there are discs around which are more likely to fail than to work - one survey showed that six out of 10 discs can fail if you select the wrong brands.

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As one CD duplication service states: "It is not advisable to leave a CD-R upside down in bright light or the sun for a long time" but most failed backups are not satisfactorily written in the first place. There are so many things which can go wrong with a recording that manufacturers of poor quality discs may get away with it for a long time.

source

thankyou for your help and might be able to shed light on this, but again its nothing to get serious about.

mattz

any CDRs will work its the quality of your cdj's you need...for example because of the oil suspension and skip-proof cd-slot on the 200's (and most pioneer cdjs) you will never have to worry about this...on tray-loading cd decks this may become an issue for you...especially if your playing in a club with lots of vibration on your decks. for this reason i recommend pio cdj's...

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Originally posted by SPAWNmaster any CDRs will work its the quality of your cdj's you need...for example because of the oil suspension and skip-proof cd-slot on the 200's (and most pioneer cdjs) you will never have to worry about this...on tray-loading cd decks this may become an issue for you...especially if your playing in a club with lots of vibration on your decks. for this reason i recommend pio cdj's...

that's not correct. some cdrs are way worse than others. i've noticed this, especially on my cdjs. some cdrs don't hold the cue point in place that well and skip back and forth a bit when freezing it to a frame. i can't recommend a brand though. well maybe one: TDK, never had problems with those altho i haven't been using them for years now.

Cheap cdrs make a difference for sure. There is no doubt about it. I never used to mind crappy brand but now that i actualy care if a cd just stops working i try to only use brand names (TDK is a good one) Iv noticed that with cheap cdrs they can just stop working for no reason what so ever and they can skip easier in regular cd players.

thats intersting guys because i havent heard of people complaining about cdrs independant of the cdj's their using...good to know...i suppose it could have to do with quality of the manufacturing process and how well you treat them...any examples of your cdr's buggin out at all??? havent had any problems with mine thus far and i use name brands plus others...

yeah i can agree so far i burnt a couple of TDK and their fine on my cdj! i guess you get what you pay for lol.

is it alright if i write in a black marker so i can see what tracks are on it?
also my idea is to make 2 copies of the same cd in audio format and have about 8 tracks on each so im not wasting cd's and also if your going to have 8 on a cd you need a copy anyways so you can mix into the songs you have on that disc.
please comment more...

use TDK's, the silver ones, with the funky design that has the 9 dots on em and whatever, ive heard a lot CDJ users say nothing but good things 'bout those ones...as well, burn on a low speed, as low as possible, i burned a couple of cd's @ 24x-32x, unorganized random tracks when i got my CDJ's, and after the CDJ's got up to operating temperature, half through the first track of a cd, it would make this funny noise, like a muffled clicking, since i burned CD's on 4x-8x, havent heard it again.

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Originally posted by mzvirbulis yeah i can agree so far i burnt a couple of TDK and their fine on my cdj! i guess you get what you pay for lol. is it alright if i write in a black marker so i can see what tracks are on it? also my idea is to make 2 copies of the same cd in audio format and have about 8 tracks on each so im not wasting cd's and also if your going to have 8 on a cd you need a copy anyways so you can mix into the songs you have on that disc. please comment more...

good idea, i dont know how i should organize my tracks yet myself, im thinking of going by BPM, and if you like, instead of writing on your CD's, cause it can get pretty tedious, put each CD in its own individual folder, then use a program called JDir Print to make a text file of the contents of each folder (i'll post a link later for you), print those txt files, and put them in front of your CD's in your CD Binder/organizer.

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Originally posted by MikeyN unorganized random tracks when i got my CDJ's

yeah well i couldnt wait either and mine support mp3 (1000mk3) so now im trying to figure out how to manage everything in a sufficient manner so i have less problems occuring.

also when you say x4 - x8 do you mean buy them cd-r's or can i buy any speed cd-r and burn it at x4-x8? i agree mate!

yeah thanks i'll look into that! even if you can post would be of help!

thanks for the posts!

I've never had any problems with any brand, cheap or expensive.

Well, I have tried many brands but TDK and Imation seems to work fine!
The last year I have only used Imation to burn music on.

The CD-burner is also a factor I would recomend Plextor and the new NEC cd/dvd burners, never had any problems with them...

I also don't burn my CD's faster then 24x, don't know why...

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Originally posted by mzvirbulis yeah well i couldnt wait either and mine support mp3 (1000mk3) so now im trying to figure out how to manage everything in a sufficient manner so i have less problems occuring. also when you say x4 - x8 do you mean buy them cd-r's or can i buy any speed cd-r and burn it at x4-x8? i agree mate! yeah thanks i'll look into that! even if you can post would be of help! thanks for the posts!

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]

I'm a mastering engineer and I only use Verbatims because the CD reproduction plant that I work with says that they give the least errors of all the brands, and I'm putting out about 20 to 30 masters a month.

Also, make sure you write your cd's at between 2 and 8 speed max, as 1 speed and higher than 8 speed creates too many errors on an audio disc.

I've been using Imation CD-R's for a while now and haven't had any errors when burning or skipping / degrading of quality over time. I can highly recommend these CD-R's!

I used to burn TDK gold's and would have a few errors every now and then. I also found that after the same discs were played excessively, audio tracks would begin to skip and click as the surface degraded.

I also came accross this webpage a while ago, which has a list of different CD-R's tested. http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardwar...d_quality.shtml

i actually use to use Imations all the time for everything, and like that site says, you cant claim the quality of CD-r's by how many errors youve had, but i just thought id mention, and this is odd, imations would always freeze my burning programs, as well as those generic, unlabeled discs, (the ones that look like two recording surfaces).

I have been using Maxell's for the longest time (Never had any problems).

I just make sure to burn at 24X max!!!

i swear by japanese fujifilm cd-r's. considered by many in the jamband music trading community to be the best discs around. i always get good life out of them. make sure you check the label and see MADE IN JAPAN, cause the Taiwanese discs are in the same packaging.

can someone explain why a cd would work but then suddenly stop workin? i have never had any cd problems. i have used all sorts, cheap and expensive 'audio' cd-r's. can a cd-r juststopworking from age? or out of the blue? or stopworking even if it hasnt been scratched?

i always check my burns before putting them in my cd wallet so if they are fine on the first listen and dont get scratched wont they stay fine forever????

i dont know but i think most things have a life span! although in your case you said i think it would be just fine!

also i believe it comes down to 3 things:

-good audio data
-good burner
-good cd discs

then u will really never be wrong.

damn.. i never knew burn speed made a difference..


i always burn all my cds at 48x but i've never had one stop working on me..

thats interesting about the burning speed...so far ive burned tracks at the fastest speed possible (usually 48x) and i have yet to get cds with any errors in them.

do u guys suggest in the future to just drop it down to about 24x max???

well i think it has to do mainly with your cdj's actually because ive heard of players from numark and other manufacturers that recommend no higher than 4x to avoid errors...whereas nowhere in the pio cdj manuals does it specify this...AND its never been complained about for pio's...so...yea...

I've used all different types from cheap ones to expensive ones. They've all worked.

most non-generic brands will do just fine for recording audio.. with a few caveats...

CD-Rs are primarily made with 3 different kinds of organic dye inks:

From Wikipedia:

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There are three basic formulations of dye used in CD-Rs: 1. Cyanine dyes were the earliest ones developed, and their formulation is patented by Taiyo Yuden. Cyanine dyes are mostly green or light blue in color, and are chemically unstable. This made cyanine discs unsuitable for archival use; they can fade and become unreadable in a few years. Many manufacturers like Taiyo Yuden use proprietary chemical additives to make more stable cyanine discs ("metal stabilized Cyanine", "Super Cyanine"). 2. Azo dye CD-Rs are dark blue in color, and their formulation is patented by Mitsubishi Chemicals. Unlike cyanine, azo dyes are chemically stable, and typically rated with a lifetime of decades. 3. Phthalocyanine dye CD-Rs are usually silver, gold or light green. The patents on phthalocyanine CD-Rs are held by Mitsui and Ciba Specialty Chemicals. These are also chemically stable, and often given a rated lifetime of hundreds of years.

As you can see, the Cyanine dyes are to be avoided (discs that look green or light blue). Although most manufacturers don't list the dye they use, so this might be harder. AFAIK cyanine dye isn't used that much anymore except for in generic brand CD-Rs. You get what you pay for: 100 CD-Rs for $5 probably isn't worth it.

Cheap CD-Rs might have manufacturing defects that cause them to jitter or wobble in the drive, which can lead to little clicks, pops, or static in your audio.

Personally I trust Verbatim for archival/reliability purposes. Maxell for general use.

On the write speed issue: When you increase the speed, it isn't just increasing the speed that the CD is spinning in your drive as it's burnt. CD Burners have to change the technique they use for operating the laser diode as you increase the speed. So at certain speeds, the drive shifts the mode it uses for writing the disc. This is completely on a per-drive basis, so it requires a bit of experimenting to find the speed you prefer.

From personal experience, burning at 52x is a bad idea if you want to rely on the disc for anything. 8x burning is for the paranoid, and 24-32x is a happy medium for me.

Another issue: While buying CD-Rs, you might consider buying 72-minute CD-Rs versus 80minute. 80 minute CD-Rs are basically not compliant to the red book CD specification. They have a narrower track width, so your data is literally squeezed closer together and is probably more unreliable. Someone mentioned missing or drifting cue points on some CDJs; this might be part of the problem.


finally, a good site for cd-r info:
http://www.cdrfaq.org/

$.02
rj

i think last week i understood how people get errors on cds. i was spinning a party and the cd audio just started bugging out. It was on an old pair of denon dual cdjs which were half falling apart. Anyways... never had a problem with my cdj-800 so its probably the cdj quality.

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