Please help me! - Poor-quality WAV??

TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Please help me! - Poor-quality WAV??

Posted by HardTranceProd on Jul-02-2006 00:17:

Please help me! - Poor-quality WAV??

Please help me!

For some reason in Fruity, when I export to WAV, my result actually sounds worse than a 192kbps MP3. Shouldn't the WAV actually be the best version?

Just look at this:

1) When I play 192kbps MP3, WinAmp shows that the whole EQ spectrum is covered, as it should be:

2) But when I play the WAV, the rightmost columns are consistently missing from the spectrum:

Why does this happen?? I don't change any defaults.

Is it a WinAmp problem, or I'm doing something wrong?

Posted by substorm on Jul-02-2006 01:01:

It has nothing to do with the wav. Have you mastered you track? Maximaized it, noramlized it. etc?

Posted by HardTranceProd on Jul-02-2006 01:06:

What do you mean "nothing"? Those 2 results for exactly the same track, made in FL, with exactly the same settings.

I just did Export MP3 and Export WAV, that's the only difference.

I didn't make any changes to either version, that's just what comes out.

Is it a sound card issue?

Posted by aquila on Jul-02-2006 03:27:

What sample rate are you exporting the WAV as?

In most cases, the last two eq bars are rendered inactive if the sample rate of the WAV is low. This will also explain why the sound quality is bad, because there is no bandwidth for the higher frequencies.

Always render your WAV files at a minimum of 44.1KHz, with 48KHz or 96KHz recommended for mastering (then resampled down for CD or MP3 production). My guess is that you've somehow set FL to export at 22.05 or 16 KHz (if that's even possible).

Posted by LENG on Jul-02-2006 04:14:

i don't think you should really judge eq with winamp... maybe with some monitoring tools that specialises in eq spectrums. to my understanding, wav form is the best quality (in terms of accuracy)... however, mp3 or any other compressed format uses *yeah* compression techniques to make the file size smaller. so, there would be some quality loss in transit. the more you compress, the less accurate that is... i'm sure you already aware of this.

cheers!

Posted by tecnolover on Jul-02-2006 07:00:

Re: Please help me! - Poor-quality WAV??

quote:
Originally posted by HardTranceProd
Shouldn't the WAV actually be the best version?

...Is it a WinAmp problem, or I'm doing something wrong?

Yes it should be better than mp3. Make sure you are exporting the mix in .wav at 44.1 and not some other lower sample rate. I don't think it would be a soundcard issue since most audio software will export the mix by digitally rendering and so it doesn't involve the soundcard.

and yeh, i wouldn't use the winamp to judge the spectrum although there def seems something is not right there. Winamp isn't that bad!lol To be sure check it using a spectrum analysis plugin. Is the .wav file audibly worse sounding?

Posted by mysticalninja on Jul-02-2006 11:57:

I've noticed winamp does something wierd to kicks i've exported as wav, in try listening too it in windows media player and see if it works any better.

Posted by HardTranceProd on Jul-02-2006 15:19:

Guys, just to verify:

In WinAmp, when I right-click on my WAV file, it gives me this info:

"PCM, 44100 Hz, 2 channels". So it is indeed 44.1KHz. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can tell.

I guess the last poster was right -- WinAmp has a problem playing WAV files. Can anyone confirm that? Can you try playing some WAV yourself and see if the highest freqs are missing?

Posted by Mr.Mystery on Jul-02-2006 15:35:

quote:
Originally posted by HardTranceProd
I guess the last poster was right -- WinAmp has a problem playing WAV files. Can anyone confirm that? Can you try playing some WAV yourself and see if the highest freqs are missing?

Works fine here.

Posted by tecnolover on Jul-02-2006 16:35:

.WAV's play fine for me also. Getting a full spectrum.

Have you tried other regular .wav files also? (not from FL) try a bunch to be sure.
If they work fine then it would seem it's something messed up in the export of your track.

Posted by HardTranceProd on Jul-02-2006 16:52:

quote:
Originally posted by tecnolover
.WAV's play fine for me also. Getting a full spectrum.

Have you tried other regular .wav files also? (not from FL) try a bunch to be sure.
If they work fine then it would seem it's something messed up in the export of your track.

I just tried it: I took some random MP3, opened it in WaveLab, and tried Wavelab's Save As WAV feature (as opposed to any Fruity rendering).

And guess what - WinAmp doesn't show the top frequences again, even in this WAV file!! And the original randomly-chosen MP3 has the full spectrum there just like the other MP3s.

What does that tell me? BTW I'm using WinAmp 5.01.

Maybe my sound card (M-Audio 44 Delta) has some weird setting?

Posted by HardTranceProd on Jul-02-2006 17:44:

Problem solved

Just downloaded WinAmp 5.24 (latest) - no such problem there, spectrum's fine.

They fixed the linear vs. logarithmic graphs.

Posted by mysticalninja on Jul-04-2006 02:42:

WMP FTW.

All you need.

Posted by DJSentinel on Jul-04-2006 03:37:

Never use commercial spectrum analizers like on iTunes or Winamp. They are not accurate and very biased.

Peace,
DJS

Posted by -mk- on Jul-04-2006 07:09:

quote:
Originally posted by DJSentinel
Never use commercial spectrum analizers like on iTunes or Winamp. They are not accurate and very biased.

Peace,
DJS

And never use Winamps EQ, cos it totally fucks up the sound.

Posted by mysticalninja on Jul-04-2006 08:05:

Why ever use an EQ on a finished song? It's basicly like saying 'Fuck You' to all the eqing the producer did..

Posted by substorm on Jul-04-2006 10:21:

quote:
Originally posted by mysticalninja
Why ever use an EQ on a finished song? It's basicly like saying 'Fuck You' to all the eqing the producer did..

Uhmm, well i think you are wrong there. IF i master the track my self, i always cut some in the mids, and boost the lows, not much, just to separate the bass more from the rest, gets a more "rolling" sound if u get it right.

no matter how good u are as a producers, there often is a bit of "reverb skin overflow" that needs to be taken care of. Of course this depends on if you like using alot of reveb, like i do.

Posted by mysticalninja on Jul-04-2006 11:29:

quote:
IF i master the track my self, i always cut some in the mids, and boost the lows, not much, just to separate the bass more from the rest, gets a more "rolling" sound if u get it right.

Then what if someone boosts the mids and lowers the lows in winamp? (My friend does this, his windows media player EQ is just a diagonal line boosting highs and taking down lows) Doesn't that defeat the purpose of your mastering?

Posted by substorm on Jul-04-2006 16:35:

quote:
Originally posted by mysticalninja
Then what if someone boosts the mids and lowers the lows in winamp? (My friend does this, his windows media player EQ is just a diagonal line boosting highs and taking down lows) Doesn't that defeat the purpose of your mastering?

Maybe, but what i meant was that, im always aiming to get the sound fill out the whole sound spectrum as much as i can, and if u have some "delay/reverb" skin thats tends to go higher than, let say the Kick, cus u dont want any other sounds to go over the kick, right?

Why? becuse when u the master it and then put a maximaizer, to "push" the vol. up, u get some unwanted clipping, highs and mids, thats why i eq. But it often veeeerry little, but just so that is doest clip to much!

But on the other hand, i often dont master my tracks my self, i have some one else do it!