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How to use compressors the right way (audio inside)?!

Hi,

I was wondering how compression is being used on tracks like this:
click here to listen to full track streamed and enjoy! Track is Nitrous Oxide - Frozen Dreams (Anjunabeats).

Taking the above track as our example.. how are different types of sounds grouped for compression.. like I believe percussion + bass are always compressed together, but what about the other sounds like pads, lead, the sequenced sounds your hear etc.. are they all grouped together or multiple seperate groups or how?..

How should you group them.. or did they only use a compressor on the entire mix which would be weird cause I don't think a pad should be compressed together with kick and bass, am I correct or not?..

so for a mix like the above, how much compressors have been used.. on the individual sounds, certain sounds grouped, the entire mix.. that's what I would like to understand!

Anybody with good knowledge about this can give a good explanation about this, taking the above typical Anjunabeats melodic trance track and its sounds (has all kinds of sounds in it) as example?! Perhaps write a mini-tutorial or something, like experts on this forum have done in the past about other production stuff!

Thanks alot for all good info about this!!

Hmm compress bass with percs.. Why? Anyone tried this with any luck?

Damn I want that bass drum..

I usually don't use compressors at all.. From my experience it sounds better without, but that might very possibly be because of my shitty compressor knowledge tho..

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja Hmm compress bass with percs.. Why? Anyone tried this with any luck?

Isn't it normal to compress bass with percs.. I always did that starting with ReBirth.. i mean isn't the point to get a thight mix so don't you need to group sounds when compressing? Or should you only compress individual tracks and not groups of sounds? All very confusing!!

Somebody here please write some good advice about all this cause I really want to understand this! Take the above track as example when explaining!

Thanks alot!!

I always only compress individual tracks until mastering. To get that pumping compressed sound with the bass being compressed on the kick, use a sidechain compressor on the bass with the kick triggering. That way it squeezes the bass when the kick triggers and opens up in between.

as above - use a sidechain compresor - so your bass drum is controlling the ammount of compression applied to the rest. I usually route hats to another strip, so they aren't compressed with the rest of it.

Hi,

I am not talking about the sidechain trick, which is more an effect. I am talking about compressing trance music in general to get tight mixes.

So do most people only compress individual tracks? Aren't certain sounds being compressed together or is that not done?

How do you get you entire mix "tight" then?

I really hope the more experienced producers on this forum could tell more about how to do it right, cause this is really interesting! Perhaps also give some info on certain settings you use for specific type of sounds etc.. as starting point etc..

Thanks alot for all good info!!

Sidechaining is totally different than regular compressing. Everyone knows about sidechaining bass with the kick drum, but what about compressing kick with rest of percs to balance out the levels? Since the kick is obviously louder than the rest of the percs I think the result would be the percs sounding like they lower in volume when the kick drops..

I mostly use comps on single elements like claps to make them alittle harder. Sometimes I use a comp on percs like closed hat + open hat if im having trouble balancing their levels out.

it is possible to get away with compressing seperate tracks, in fact it's possible to get away with just eqing and leveling everything right (with automation) - and that is the pureists way of doing things - but you need a fair ammount of experience to be able to do that.

now - the other side of the coin is effect compression = i.e. compression to achieve an effect, like pumping - peoples gut reaction when they read a topic asking about compression is to say: don't use any - eq properly; cause this is what they have read, and it makes them cool (this doesn't refer to anyone above btw) - but if you want certain effects, like the sidechain pumping effect, you do need comprtession.

I eq ane level well now, and then at the end I'll ultramaximise slightly (top 1.5db or so) - ultramaximisation is a fancy name for a compressor.

most producers I know do this to get their mixes slightly hotter

Sounds like your question is asking how to master your tracks.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=299037

Wealth of info there.

I tend to use compression on most instruments, sometimes in combination with a limiter. The reason is to get the instruments to sound louder without their peak level being too high. A common use is on kicks, claps and rides so the tail doesn't seem to fade as quickly. You have to be careful not to completely kill the dynamics of your instruments (unless that's what you want) or induce distortion when doing this but it should be quite obvious when that happens.
As for groups, I makes groups of percs (as if they were loops) and compress them together, but I don't ever group percs and synths or instruments that have a big difference in volume.
Another good use of a compressor is to put one on a crash or a synth after a delay unit, then play around with the threshold. The lower it is the more delays the compressor will affect.

Multiband Compressor all the way.
Splits up your audio into 4 unique segments, each being compressed on their own.
In that case you e.g. avoid the bassdrum interfering with the overall signal.

if i was to compress shit id do the bass and drums together, pad and leads together and fx on their own

kinda keeps its seperate but not ah fuck it i know what im going on about.

to be honest i usually compress everything through one compressor...

I tried compressing the bass with all the rest of the percs, all it does is make the bass drum quieter when the percs drop! Not cool!

i dont quite understand why so many use compression on say the percussion and the bass together? i understand that surely instead you should eq each part(kick and bass) so they dont clash? or sidechain comp(minimally so the bass is only comped during the kick, and returns very quick so you dont notice the dip.

using compression to level things out seams a bit of a bad idea. compression ruins the sound. its taking part of the source and cutting away at it. comp is good to control how you want a kick to sound. and to make a track more power efficient once mixing has been done, but using compression here there and everywhere is like a much more complicated way of mixing your track? you shouldnt need to comp your bass and percs all together should you? - if you have the mixing right to start with.

imo you should avoid compression as much as possible becuase once it gets to the masterers then itll see a whole lot more compression- you ll end up with no sound left!

^I second that.

If the mixdown is good, then you shouldn't really need compression except for maybe kick/bass comp and percs. Normally though you'll put a compressor on the master track during mastering to "tighten" up the mix anyways. It's just in the latter end of the production process. Don't be so hasty when producing. Take your time and really get to know your instruments. It'll only make you better in the end.

There's nothing wrong with using compressors on individual tracks during mixdown. Just leave the masterbus compression to the mastering engineer so that they can make the best use of the available dynamics.

compression can be used for many different things but in the context of mixing we have to remember that compression is simply used for controlling the volume of audio and not increasing it.

I use compression on individual tracks as well as groups. I dont compress pads or anything else that I want to have a human feel to.

I dont quite get what you mean by compressing the bass and kick together.

How would it be wired in Reason...

If you mean sidechaining the kick to the bass, I understand. But I dont think thats what is being discussed.

I don't really understand any of the comments. Just do what you see fit and make sure it sounds right. You just need to know what a compressor does and when to use it. There is no right or wrong type of channel to use compression on, it's the way of using it which is important.

Personally I use compressors on a lot of different things, sometimes on multiple channels. Other times on 1 group channel. Sometimes I use a hard knee compressor and other times a soft-knee. Sometimes I compress with a ratio of 20:1 and sometimes 2:1, golden rule: make it sound good, it doesn't matter how you do that.

Totally agreeing with Storyteller.
A lot of you guys are too much thinking of doing things "right", just because "everyone does it like that" (or at least you think so).

to be honest, i dont count on this whole compressor thing too much.
All I use is a multiband compressor to master the final track.

Should rather think of other stuff like EQing and using Effects in the right way if you got any sound issues.

Compression is absolutely vital to crafting a produced, professional sound, which I would say is essential to the genre of EDM! It is an intrinsic part of the mixdown process, not an afterthought. Remember, we're not dealing with acoustic sounds here that call for lotsa nice dynamic range.

For an overload of information about compression have a look at this interview with mix engineer Michael Brauer. This is pretty unconventional stuff compared to the sort of advice that usually gets thrown around regarding compression and a really good read, although rather complex! He's using the highest-end of analog gear, but you can emulate some the techniques in software.
http://www.mbrauer.com/articles/tapeop.asp?pp=1

There's actually nothing wrong with putting a compressor on the master bus...read about a different perspective on this matter here from Charles Dye.

I've been applying some of this stuff to my mixes, and they're starting to sound decent, and even, dare I say, "pro". I may even be inspired to actually start finishing tracks now that I'm not getting discouraged by lackluster mixes. I'll try to post some samples when I get the chance. fyi, the links in my sig are to old and ridiculously crappy productions

Many of you seem to say how to use compression, but I think what is more important here is why you should or should not use it. It's a tool, sometimes its needed, some times its not.

As far as I see it there are three ways to use it, controlling levels on sounds that tend to change volume alot and you want to keep at a constant level (this tends to happen on things that change notes alot), so for instance a real bass guitar. The second way would be to shape a sound. eg give it more punch by leaving the attack of a sound uncompressed and compressing the tail, or keep a constant level across the sound (this is probably best done with limiting though). And finally control stray peaks (but I tend to use limiters for this job)

To say you should always use compression on this or that is stupid. Take a kickdrum for instance, unless for the reasons above there is no reason to use compression on the individual track because they stay at a constant level, the sound isnt changing notes so loudness on that particular sound does not vary, it is constant.

Now of course there will be sounds you want to be louder, they may have stray peaks. Do this with a limiter imo as thats what they are made for! Oh btw on sub frequencies (< 100 hz) limiting/compression is pointless because your either distorting the sine wave in a bad way or turning the level down back up again. If you want a sub louder, make it perceived to be louder with mild distortion (saturation). Compressions can kill the power of the low end very easily so be careful when using it.

My above reasons for using compression I think are recursive for grouping of sounds. Make sure when mixing trance before even thinking about compressing a grouping of the bass and kick together get your level's and eq'ing right, use sounds in key will help as well (tune ur kick to ur bass/key of the song). But anyway if you group these two sounds the kick tends to be the loudest, so if you compress both in a group ur going to squash the kick before even touching the bass (the difference in levels, well depends on the track). I'm no expert on grouping but Im just saying whats going to happen so think carefully about why your doing what ur doing.

Just use what you think sound the best, with or without compressor, you are making this to much of a big deal of it.

I promise you, that if you make a really good track with a good sound, you can fuck the "rules". Trust your ears, thats the best tool you have, so be gentle to them!

Cheers
C

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