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-- Cubase Vs. Ableton
Cubase Vs. Ableton
sorry to rehash an age old question of sequencer wars. i'm not looking for a cut and dry answer. i've been a producer for numerous years and have been a cubase user. The way i usually like to make a song is by creating an initial loop, and playing out from that idea. After reading into abelton, would it be an easier task to work out of the initial loop in Live, as opposed to cubase. Or just a general question, to ppl who have used both, how have you noticed your workflow pace affected by either.
We use to make electronic music with Nuendo, which is I think very similay to Cubase.
Lets see here some of the things you can do in Ableton and not in Nuendo:
- Double click an audio loop from the arrangement, and seconds later play your track again with the parts of a loop timed slightly different.
- Fold a midi loop into just the notes that are in it for better desktop usage. This is ecpecially handy for those clips with notes across multiple octaves.
- Single click access to all you fx and plug-in automation instead of having to screw with all these big blocky tracks that dont contain data anyway and takup screen space.
- No need for an external wave editor for most of the time since common manipulations like Start Marker Position, Loop Lenght, Pitch, Swing, Volume Envelope, and more are all integral part of Ableton.
This is just a start. The switch was a must for us after we discovered Ableton. Not to mention the live performance capabilities that are just amazing and without taking anything away from the studio production capabilities.
I hope this helps you pick one...
ableton is cool as long as your studio consists only as a DAW. if you have a lot of external gear cubase is a way better choice. for me ableton live is still more for live gigs and for me not really userfriendly in a studio environment. one of the biggest left downs is that the GUI can't be seriously strechted over multiscreens and the workflow of the midi implementation is still very unpractical.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by thecYrus ableton is cool as long as your studio consists only as a DAW. if you have a lot of external gear cubase is a way better choice. for me ableton live is still more for live gigs and for me not really userfriendly in a studio environment. one of the biggest left downs is that the GUI can't be seriously strechted over multiscreens and the workflow of the midi implementation is still very unpractical. |
use both....? thats what i think i will do soon. then if you ever get a booking that you feel you want to do 'live' then ableton will let you do that.. you could use cubase for your external duties and then import audio you record into ableton afterwards..
We are sampling quite a bit from our externals using Ableton. I usually record more that what I need, position a Start Marker, an End Marker, maybee some Warping, adjust the master delay on that track and that is it; next loop....that part is no effort once you figure it out.
I used to use Logic Audio, now I only use Ableton, my workflow is much quicker and it's much easier to work with, I have Cubase SX but hardly touch it nowadays unless a client wants to use it.
ive tried ableton lite but cant get my head around it. i dont think i could be annoyed spending a year getting to know the software when ive just got the hang of cubase. id be interested in looking into ableton for dj purposes just to see how it works and how its set up. although if it auto beat matches id be against that.
use cubase to make ur tracks or loops
arrrange them in ableton!!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by dj_kane ive tried ableton lite but cant get my head around it. i dont think i could be annoyed spending a year getting to know the software when ive just got the hang of cubase. id be interested in looking into ableton for dj purposes just to see how it works and how its set up. although if it auto beat matches id be against that. |
+1
i have live 5.2. I don't much like it. I got it because fruity was my main tool, and i did come to believe, as so many say (thanks janalay and p.s. gol admitted you're right), that the poor sound quality was hurting my music (even with waves bundle to replace the crappy verb etc). Ableton sounds great. And for live performance, it's perfect.
What I don't like is everything else. The audio warping and beat matching is not that impressive. Honestly Fruity's beat slicer can do the same thing. I am suprised cubase can't, it's pretty basic. In fruity you can draw pitch, beat, and volume curves and set multiple start/end loops unlike just one pair in ableton. It's overhyped crap. The midi editing is abysmal. No piano roll features, auto warp, and the "midi effects" are pathetic. It squishes you into a little corner with poor workflow. Also, ableton essentially loads 4 or 5 clips per "scene" and then you fire them and stop them in time. This forces you into this e-jay pattern thing (like fruity) and is not flowing and free-running like cubase or logic (i play a little with demos and hacks on those, so that's how i know how they run). Also there is no space for intuitive ordering like in cubase.
Bottom line, ableton is a dj app. Trackers are the best for classic midi/vst work. If you want midi and audio, cubase is your answer. If you need to perform 5 of your tracks, or a set live, ableton is your answer. You need them both probably. Since I'm a bedroom composer, mostly into idm now, i don't really see much use for ableton. I just use the basic tracker or midi routing programming of max/msp (or supercollider or reaktor if that's your taste) for composing work.
It all depends on what you're trying to do.
i didn't say that's all it does. I'm not great, but i make full tracks in all sequencers. I said that's ableton's emphasis on the screen and in the workflow, that's why it's called Ableton LIVE. Otherwise it's the same as any other sequencer or tracker. It's audio warping is really not that unique. I suspect you haven't used cubase, fls, or logic as much as I. I really don't see that much special about ableton except for live performance. I think it's inferior otherwise. That's just my 2c. You are certainly free to disagree, but watch the ad hominems, son.
Right now, i do everything in max/msp and use ableton to play a set. Ableton's a fun toy, like fruity loops or reason. It is not cubase and certainly not pro-tools. And absolutely nowhere near max/msp, supercollider, or pd. Remember my thing is autechre, aphex, etc, so I need to use the latter apps like they do. Every kid on the block is making crappy ableton/ejay tunes today thanks to sasha and pvd promoting the toy for beer money. I love fruity and reason too. I love toys. But keep it in perspective.
p.s. do you even know that ableton was just one of monolake's patches for max/msp? How can something be superior to something it is a subset of? Can a word perfect document be a superior word processor to word perfect? You are really misinformed, illogical or both.
sorry i got a bitch slap goin'
it's probably because you're a texan and we cajuns have poor anger management skills.
c'est la vie mon cher from louisiana
peace bro
I switched from ableton to cubase.
Abletons arrange view just didn't do it for me.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Majutsu
i didn't say that's all it does. I'm not great, but i make full tracks in all sequencers. I said that's ableton's emphasis on the screen and in the workflow, that's why it's called Ableton LIVE. Otherwise it's the same as any other sequencer or tracker. It's audio warping is really not that unique. I suspect you haven't used cubase, fls, or logic as much as I. I really don't see that much special about ableton except for live performance. I think it's inferior otherwise. That's just my 2c. You are certainly free to disagree, but watch the ad hominems, son.
Right now, i do everything in max/msp and use ableton to play a set. Ableton's a fun toy, like fruity loops or reason. It is not cubase and certainly not pro-tools. And absolutely nowhere near max/msp, supercollider, or pd. Remember my thing is autechre, aphex, etc, so I need to use the latter apps like they do. Every kid on the block is making crappy ableton/ejay tunes today thanks to sasha and pvd promoting the toy for beer money. I love fruity and reason too. I love toys. But keep it in perspective.
p.s. do you even know that ableton was just one of monolake's patches for max/msp? How can something be superior to something it is a subset of? Can a word perfect document be a superior word processor to word perfect? You are really misinformed, illogical or both. [/QUOTE
man the misinformed person are you!! just because u cant produce in ableton it doesnt mean it cant be done. and ableton is a professional application in all terms. i think its a dumb idea to stick with one tool when u can take advantage of many . i also use cubase as my main seuqencer, and there are many aspects in ableton is far superior. tools are there just use them. i know many professional producers ( and no not that sasha wimp guy) that are switching to live for producing. ableton is not a dj tool. dont be fool for that, ure so cool , just know everything about sequencers right masta???
then how the hell can u compare ableton with reason. i think u re either, stoned, blind or on some power trip.
ps.and yes ableton started as something as an upgrade for max/msp from monolake, but to call it a patch?!!! cmon u gotta be fuking kidding me!
i like most of what you say pixxxan, but you really need to understand something about max and ableton, because there you are just factually wrong. Max/msp is a visual computing language. You clearly have not used max, but if you ever used reaktor it's the same idea. Basically you have a bunch of spare parts (snippets of code), little boxes you string together, oscillators, filters, sliders, knobs, etc. When you make a patch in max/msp you make a program, a collection of sequencers and synthesizers, whatever you like. Monolake was using max/msp for a while. He had a PATCH he really liked, used all the time. He asked cycling'74, the max/msp company, if he could commercially sell his patch. It runs off c code and only the gui interface remains. It's just a max/msp patch with the inability to change anything. It's an amazing patch. Better than anything i could do, but its just a file saved in max/msp. i would love to have some of autechre's max/msp patches, they look like sequencers from mars. I can post the monolake interviews and the sound on sound interview with autechre so you can get a better idea. I bought ableton and use it, in case you didn't notice. but if i were a young man, learning production, i would learn max/msp and c, so i could make my own apps and my own sound. i am almost 40 and a little too old to wrap my head around such things. It's not about professional or non-professional when i say toy. lots of people use reason and fruity for professional work. I mean a toy, like a video game say, presents you with finite options to toggle. A programming language like max/msp or supercollider gives you complete freedom and artistic vision. This is why the very top experimental edm artists use max/msp or supercollider with hardware to build their own studios in essence. Sure they now bring in ableton's audio warp so as not to rewrite monolake's code over and over themselves. But if you want to understand sound design and are young enough to do it, learn to take it all the way to the top. For making generic party tracks and then moving on to "uni", ableton or reason is great, but if sound engineering is your life, you need to get to the technical level.
here's the autechre interview and make sure you look at his max/msp patches in the pictures --- holy shit . . . .
autechre max/msp interview
i have some max/msp patches from the ep7 album you can play with the max demo. let me know if you want them.
the wikipedia entry for ableton starts off with that it was a max/msp patch in the 80s. So with max you could have made ableton yourself 20 years ago, or you can wait 20 years to buy the patch for 500USD. One's a leader, one's a follower.
I want to find the ableton patch for you (and me). I've seen it on the web .. . that ought to impress you.
y thanx that was a very interesting reading. yes ure right i havent even tried max sequencer, and to be honest im not much of a tech guy. i realized how far this kind of working is from what im aiming too. it may be laziness, but i really like the simpleness of working in a laptop amidi controller and my favorite software. i think if i had the cash of course id have more and more hardware. it must be awesome to have all this gear on even more the knowledge to push it to the max.thing is i still have a lot to learn from my existing software. and also nothing beats getting up in the morning and work on a new track with the carribean ocean in front of u!
i think this is some kind of generation gap!!
hehe
live 6 and kore ftw
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