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-- how to recreate this patch sound? (vengeance virus patch)

how to recreate this patch sound? (vengeance virus patch)

there was a bigg thread about this a long time ago..but i can't find it. But yeah it involved this clip of how to make this vengeance patch and i think terry baker made a very similar one using vanguard. Well i was wondering how do you make it? I'm very hooked on that patch sound and it would be great if someone could recreate it using some soft synths and share some insight !!
heres the sound sample.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...35A0CE1182DA420

SAW OSCs with LFO detune and filter env..

in the end push the unison detune up / fat knob on vanguard.

bEsT pAtCh EVaR!!!!

i made the orignal thread about this sound. some people insisted it was unison, i insisted it wasnt, i was right. theres no unison turned up at all, and theres no lfo detune. =) i've asked manuel on vengeance forums, its chorus being turned up. chorus with high rate and mid-high depth. the sound that almost sounds like a phaser coming in is a ring modulator.

the alya lead is the closest thing you can get to it i think.. some people posted some versions they made in the old thread, they keys were right on but the sound was pretty different.

eq the alya lead right, get rid of the sub freqs.. vanguard is actually pretty fat you always gotta eq the low end out. and use a compressor to make the delay duck out when you play, and your pretty close.

and no, im not gonna give you guys the patch name because you guys were bitches then and made me find it, and no one was helpfull at all except one person.. i think it was derivitive. i had to email manuel and prove i bought it to get the patch name.. you do it if you want it so bad.

chorus or unison.. there's not a big difference.. it's almost the same technically. and yes, it works with unison too it's not a hard thing to create.

its pretty hard to create. ive tried reverse engineering this patch a couple times but i can never recreate it perfectly from scratch, never sounds quite right with filter all the way open.. the patch is perfect. you can use unison but it wont be as phat. your wrong btw, its a single saw osc. =)

single or multiple SAW OSCs is no difference here if you does it right. and btw. i've the patch since a long time in my studio but never used it once

quote:

Originally posted by thecYrus single or multiple SAW OSCs is no difference here if you does it right. and btw. i've the patch since a long time in my studio but never used it once

Don't suppose there is any chance you can post the patch Mr Gut?

I really really like the next patch at the end!!!

o_O testing it out right now..this is harder than i thought.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja eq the alya lead right, get rid of the sub freqs.. vanguard is actually pretty fat you always gotta eq the low end out. and use a compressor to make the delay duck out when you play, and your pretty close.

How would you use the compressor to duck the delay on a synth lead???

I use cubase and have vanguard!

FJ

quote:

Originally posted by thecYrus single or multiple SAW OSCs is no difference here if you does it right. and btw. i've the patch since a long time in my studio but never used it once

Actually, adding another saw makes a big difference. Using a single saw is that makes is what makes it so thick. A second saw gives it a phase that makes it sound weaker. Thank you come again. =)

quote:

How would you use the compressor to duck the delay on a synth lead?

This is the KEY to getting this sound, it's obviously compressed in that sample. Just make sure the compressor is coming after the delay, use a high ratio like 10, pretty high threshold like 18-32, and make up to bring volume back. Now the delay won't bleed into the notes your playing. =)

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.p...40918FB0576C438

I tried..and i know mine sounds like poo..lol but i was trying i dont know how to make it sound fullerr..and besides its only one sawtooth like you said to try and use mystical.

I'm only listening to it on a laptop, but did you eq it? +3 db at 1300khz with low q, +6 at 2500 with mid-high q, and -3 on the low end. thats how the patch is.

no

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja This is the KEY to getting this sound, it's obviously compressed in that sample. Just make sure the compressor is coming after the delay, use a high ratio like 10, pretty high threshold like 18-32, and make up to bring volume back. Now the delay won't bleed into the notes your playing. =)

Are you saying to sidechain the delay using the main synth notes?? Or to apply the compressor to the synth / delay [inserted] and set the attack to longe than the synth note??

Im trying to work out how the audio flows, sorry to be vague I just cant picture it in my head.

Thanks
FJ

attack should be 0ms or as close to it as you can get, when your compressing a sound that much having a quick attack will just give you a loud click sound when you start playing, and having an attack longer than the notes you play would make the delay not duck while your playing.

you don't need a sidechain, i can't picture it in my head either, but i know it works. just give up trying to figure out compressors by reading about them, i tried doing that and i almost understood but using it is how you really find out how to make it do what you want.

That sound absolutely 100% does not have unison on it.

Amp Attack isnt 0 ms - You have to force VelOn to modulate filter cutoff (either one. I'm using dual low pass, series 4 with no resonance).

What that does is make the beginning of the sound seem really...hmmm...'round.' I have the amp attack on 26 and the filter envelope modulating its own filter attack negatively to get a plucking sound. Its also modulating its own filter release positively so it tails off in a really 'thin' fashion.

4 oscillators. 2 saws, detuned apart. I have first oscillator set to 64 saw wave. The second oscillator set to 22 saw/sine mix and OSC BAL set to -42 so its more saw wave.

3rd oscillator set to slave the second.

Sub oscillator set to square wave and is mixed in all the way (127). Rectified filter saturation.

Then the LFOs are crazy. I modulated the pitch of oscillator 1 and 2 along a triangle wave on LFO 1 - enough to get a waver going. LFO speed is locked at 1/16.

I have LFO 2 speed set to 1/1 and it is modulating filter cutoff 1 and 2 negatively and panning. Both LFOs are modulating pulse width in opposite directions.

LFO 3 is set to modulate oscillators 1 and 2 enough to make the sound buzz like a mosquito.

I couldnt get the delay pattern right. I'm pretty sure its pattern 3+2 but the delay is half speed. Which means I have to force my Virus B to send midi clock at half the BPM. Double the speed of all the LFOs and modulators just to get the delay tempo right. Bah. I'll work on it.

I also had to reset both my definable patches and set phaser mix to def 2 and LFO1>Osc1 on def 1. Thats how I make the LFO speed go more wobbly around 2 seconds in.

Theres a phaser on it. Couldnt get the Virus Chorus to sound right. Couldnt get ring modulation to sound right without making it go all weird. I think I have the envelope shapes sort of right.

The original patch has alot of complex stuff going on that I haven't been able to figure out. Its progressively detuning or a detune parameter is set to the modwheel. I think theres some kind of phaser trick going on too that I havent been able to replicate. I also havent got the timbre exact yet. Still working on it but that sound is Virus all over.

The attack phase isn't quite right yet. Theres definitely something going on with the phaser sweep and I am having a fiddle now but I have a feeling its bound to def 1 or def 2. Which sucks because I've used both already.

Heres my first attempt:

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]

I guess I'll have a stab at it.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja Actually, adding another saw makes a big difference. Using a single saw is that makes is what makes it so thick. A second saw gives it a phase that makes it sound weaker. Thank you come again. =)

Not if the saw's are in the same phase cycle and in tune, then they resonate and double the amplitude. Sheesh :-/

quote:

Amp Attack isnt 0 ms - You have to force VelOn to modulate filter cutoff (either one. I'm using dual low pass, series 4 with no resonance).

I was talking about the compressor on it, the attack on the comp is 0ms or as close as Manuels compressor can get to it. =D
The Amp Attack on the patch is '5', but the matrix has key follow modulating amp attack by -64.

quote:

Sub oscillator set to square wave and is mixed in all the way (127). Rectified filter saturation.

Theres no sub osc, but there is rectifier distortion at 0%, never noticed that. no filter saturation tho.

quote:

Theres a phaser on it. Couldnt get the Virus Chorus to sound right. Couldnt get ring modulation to sound right without making it go all weird.

Theres no phaser on the original patch, or are you talking about your patch? Maybe the ring modulation doesn't sound right because the original uses one OSC while yours has four? Dunno, haven't played with ring modulation much.

quote:

Its progressively detuning or a detune parameter is set to the modwheel.

No detune, just a fatty chorus. The modwheel is set to EQ mid gain+.

What does Def1 and Def2 mean btw? Also, if you want the patch I'll give it to you since your pretty awsome and helpfull compared to most people here.

quote:

Not if the saw's are in the same phase cycle and in tune, then they resonate and double the amplitude. Sheesh :-/

Hmm how do you do this on a virus? By setting Phase Init to 1 right?

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja Hmm how do you do this on a virus? By setting Phase Init to 1 right?

Any value except 0 I think. Useful for drum programming.

Ok, so here's my attempt.

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


It's probably not even close. The original link stopped working a while ago so I didn't have something to compare to.

Sounds pretty dirty and detuned, you got unison on that? Doesn't sound thick like the original.

I think this one sounds a bit closer than my old try !

http://perso.orange.fr/TranceDevotion/ninja.mp3

not exactly the same btw...

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