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TORONTO STAR: Fed up with lakefront noise? Just deal with it
Rolling noise across the waves from party boats and harbourfront night spots often annoys waterfront-area residents on both the city side and the islands.
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Fed up with lakefront noise? Just deal with it
`Part of living' near water, say residents
City sent warning memo in the spring
Jul. 29, 2006. 04:10 AM
DONOVAN VINCENT
CITY HALL BUREAU
Exasperated by helicopters and planes flying overhead, horns from ferries, noise from the Gardiner and Lake Shore Blvd. or music from nightclubs or festivals?
Tough.
That's the reality of living on Toronto's waterfront, so get used to it.
Queen's Quay W. condo resident Harry Oldenhof looks at it that way. He has lived in his condo for nearly four years and has heard some of his neighbours complaining about noise but doesn't share their concerns.
"If you move here, that's what you have to expect,'' Oldenhof, 61, said as he walked his Dalmatian at Harbourfront one afternoon this week.
"There is noise here, but it's reasonable and it stops at a reasonable time,'' Oldenhof adds.
A number of residents have lodged complaints about the noise coming from Harbourfront Centre's concert stage, which offers everything from jazz to blues and classical music.
The issue of noise on the waterfront was back in the news this week with the Docks nightclub having its liquor licence revoked after years of noise complaints from Toronto Island residents. That decision is under appeal and the club remains in business serving liquor.
Cinematographer Carmen Dodaro, 53, who lives year-round on his sailboat, which he docks at Pier 4 marina, directly beside the Harbourfront stage, loves the entertainment and blames people with "nothing better to do'' for going to police to complain about noise from the music.
"I don't know what the problem is. It's the best entertainment in the city,'' he says.
Helicopters and planes flying in and around the island airport, traffic from the Gardiner Expressway, horns from ferries heading to and from the Islands, and other watercraft like powerboats and tour boats, are all sources of noise, says sports announcer Dana McKiel, who lives in an apartment near the waterfront.
But he too accepts it all.
"It's part of living at the waterfront,'' says McKiel, who is mulling over the idea of buying a condo on Queen's Quay.
The biggest sources of noise complaints in the area have been the Docks, the Guvernment Night Club, and tour boats or party boats in the inner harbour, says Stephen Miller, a supervisor with the city's municipal licensing and standards office, who deals with noise complaints along the waterfront.
The tour and party boat operators, which have generated ongoing complaints for a number of years from islanders and condo dwellers, were issued warnings from Miller's department in the spring.
The notification outlined the city's noise by-law � no loud music is permitted between 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. Monday to Saturday, or 11 p.m. to 9 a.m. on Sundays and statutory holidays, and even when it is permitted it can never be of a volume or nature that disturbs inhabitants.
As for the other noise hot spots on the waterfront, Miller offered these explanations:
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Helicopters and planes flying in and around the island airport: That's not city jurisdiction, it's federal.
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Traffic along the Gardiner: That's a fact of life that can't be controlled. It's impractical to put up noise barriers similar to those on the 401, largely because the Gardiner is a raised roadway. Noise from the Gardiner is actually considered part of background noise level for the area.
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Ferry or boat horns: that's regulated as a safety standard, the same as sounding a train whistle at a railway crossing, or siren for an emergency vehicle. Horns have to be sounded when craft are departing or docking.
When it comes to investigating noise complaints, there are three main categories under the city's bylaws. The general noise prohibition relates to noise "likely to disturb an inhabitant.''
Specific noise prohibitions relate to sources like the racing of vehicles, squealing tires, or cars without mufflers.
The city uses noise meters only to measure sound from air conditioners.
For noise in general � say loud music during permitted times � a quantitative measurement is not necessarily going to reflect the annoyance factor to the people that are disturbed, Miller says.
"In other words, it (the bylaw) doesn't say that 60 decibels is acceptable and 75 is not. It's not a quantitative type of noise measured in those terms, because you could be right next to it and it could be impacting on your everyday activities by virtue of the fact that it's constant ...'' Miller says.
"That's very subjective. It's inhabitants describing their lifestyle being interrupted,'' he says.
Fines for noise violations can be as high as $5,000 per violation.
source:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...id=968332188492
And then there's some who just *don't* understand urban living.
Notice they mentioned The Guvernment as the #2 source of noise complaints?
If The Docks is shut down - expect The Guvernment to be next on the islander's attack list.
I am taking up a collection to run a "ONE WAY" bus service to the country...
Anyone want to contribute?
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| Originally posted by rabbitjoker Notice they mentioned The Guvernment as the #2 source of noise complaints? If The Docks is shut down - expect The Guvernment to be next on the islander's attack list. |
those were probably the people that called the cops when lawler was at the skybar
in the legal forms when people are moving into the residence downtown/harbourfront it should clearly state that noise here is elevated - move in at own risk and do not fuckin complain!!... seriously
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| Originally posted by HypnotEyez in the legal forms when people are moving into the residence downtown/harbourfront it should clearly state that noise here is elevated - move in at own risk and do not fuckin complain!!... seriously |
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| Originally posted by rabbitjoker Notice they mentioned The Guvernment as the #2 source of noise complaints? If The Docks is shut down - expect The Guvernment to be next on the islander's attack list. |
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| Originally posted by FunkyGroove |
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 u are one of the biggest advocator of banning things on this board... this is just that sort of mentality carried forward except that this time you are on the other end of it. |
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| Originally posted by FunkyGroove hey I never joined the argument against the noise if you remember I always said you can't equate very different things together |
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 aaah but you can... you cant just pick and choose your causes. If you support the ban-it mentality for other things you shouldnt be surprised when somebody uses the same logic against something you enjoy, in this case noise. |
you probably could apply that to 99% of people. But that doesnt make it right.
I am on record when it comes to supporting rights of others that i dont partake in.
I have never owned a pitbull
I dont smoke
I dont eat sushi
But im still 100% in favour of those people's rights. Because when it comes to an issue like this, i would want those people to support MY cause as well. You cant just pick and choose laws of convenience. You are either for a sterile society or you arent.
And id hope that canadian officials dont show up whereever u are. I dont think they would be ready for a mountain of pathetic bylaws that stipulate everything from no ball playing to no drinks after 2 am. I dont think they are ready for the permissiveness displayed by canadian officials when it comes to homelessness and "hug a thug" approaches on REAL crime either.
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 you probably could apply that to 99% of people. But that doesnt make it right. I am on record when it comes to supporting rights of others that i dont partake in. I have never owned a pitbull I dont smoke I dont eat sushi But im still 100% in favour of those people's rights. Because when it comes to an issue like this, i would want those people to support MY cause as well. You cant just pick and choose laws of convenience. You are either for a sterile society or you arent. |
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| Originally posted by FunkyGroove see you doing it again! what does liking sushi has to do with Club's noise levels? sure, peole should respect other people's rights and etc the same way I have a right to pick and choose a lot of things |
Man, the problem with Toronto is it's becoming condo city....in the city...which isn't what an urban environment is all about. The southern part of the city should all be commercial buildings, instead of a berlin-wall of condos on queen's quay, I think that's one of the problems. The ratio of commericial to residential buildings in Toronto is going over the top (I mean in the city), these same assholes who are complaining about the sounds of a thriving urban environment should go live in the god damn suburbs. That's what suburbs are for. I don't understand what they want? To create a boring environment so that everyone will shit on the city and say it sucks?
This Canadian mentality of consevatism has just gone over the top, and this is just one of the ways.
No alcohol after 2am, retarded laws to stop big parties from happening, police serving as nothing but traffic control....
| quote: |
| Originally posted by TSI_AWD Man, the problem with Toronto is it's becoming condo city....in the city...which isn't what an urban environment is all about. The southern part of the city should all be commercial buildings, instead of a berlin-wall of condos on queen's quay, I think that's one of the problems. The ratio of commericial to residential buildings in Toronto is going over the top (I mean in the city), these same assholes who are complaining about the sounds of a thriving urban environment should go live in the god damn suburbs. That's what suburbs are for. I don't understand what they want? To create a boring environment so that everyone will shit on the city and say it sucks? This Canadian mentality of consevatism has just gone over the top, and this is just one of the ways. No alcohol after 2am, retarded laws to stop big parties from happening, police serving as nothing but traffic control.... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by TSI_AWD Man, the problem with Toronto is it's becoming condo city....in the city...which isn't what an urban environment is all about. The southern part of the city should all be commercial buildings, instead of a berlin-wall of condos on queen's quay, I think that's one of the problems. The ratio of commericial to residential buildings in Toronto is going over the top (I mean in the city), these same assholes who are complaining about the sounds of a thriving urban environment should go live in the god damn suburbs. That's what suburbs are for. I don't understand what they want? To create a boring environment so that everyone will shit on the city and say it sucks? This Canadian mentality of consevatism has just gone over the top, and this is just one of the ways. No alcohol after 2am, retarded laws to stop big parties from happening, police serving as nothing but traffic control.... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by TSI_AWD Man, the problem with Toronto is it's becoming condo city....in the city...which isn't what an urban environment is all about. The southern part of the city should all be commercial buildings, instead of a berlin-wall of condos on queen's quay, I think that's one of the problems. The ratio of commericial to residential buildings in Toronto is going over the top (I mean in the city), these same assholes who are complaining about the sounds of a thriving urban environment should go live in the god damn suburbs. That's what suburbs are for. I don't understand what they want? To create a boring environment so that everyone will shit on the city and say it sucks? This Canadian mentality of consevatism has just gone over the top, and this is just one of the ways. No alcohol after 2am, retarded laws to stop big parties from happening, police serving as nothing but traffic control.... |
If you dont like big city noise.. move to the fucking country!!
And if you think Toronto is bad, go to one of the big cities in Europe(like Paris or London).
Seems to me that the only people complaining are just a bunch of old bitches who are cranky because they havent gotten f#cked in 20 years & their pussies dried up.
u know whats retarded?
Whenever I step out of Docks or Guvernment, and I walk maybe 10-20 meters to my car, I don't hear shit... how the hell do the islanders and surrounding residence pick up anything? 
what are they doing, stepping OUT of their house on the poarch/balcony at 5am, cupping their ears scanning for "annoying" sounds?
But seriously, they should stfu, especially when the city warns them about noise levels before they buy the property.
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| Originally posted by m2j u know whats retarded? Whenever I step out of Docks or Guvernment, and I walk maybe 10-20 meters to my car, I don't hear shit... how the hell do the islanders and surrounding residence pick up anything? what are they doing, stepping OUT of their house on the poarch/balcony at 5am, cupping their ears scanning for "annoying" sounds? But seriously, they should stfu, especially when the city warns them about noise levels before they buy the property. |
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 aaah but you can... you cant just pick and choose your causes. If you support the ban-it mentality for other things you shouldnt be surprised when somebody uses the same logic against something you enjoy, in this case noise. |
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| Originally posted by MarkT that's absurd. you can pick and choose, so long as you use consistent criteria. I use something along the lines of the 'harm principle'...smoking in confined, public spaces is a specific harm to others. A *bit* of noise on the waterfront to a select few homeowners who should know better since they live near downtown...I don't consider that to be "harm". People don't have the right to SILENCE...they have the right to not be subjected to unreasonable noise...I highly doubt this noise is *that* loud. |
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