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cubase - mixing down to audio

ciao,

so i have a bit of a predicament. i have the technical knowledge on how to do this, but i suppose it's setting myself in the right mindset before doing it.

usually i have all of my tracks in MIDI for peace of mind, just in case i want to change something, or tweak a setting, it'll be much easier. before i know it, a chunk of my track's already written, still all in midi (hardware or VST), and i come to a point where i'm like "shit, i gotta dump this all in audio if i want my computer to run properly!"

at that point, well, it's a pain in the ass. imagine having 6 minutes of a track with complex midi patterns and signals in each. what if i decide to change a knob, change velocities, etc.

ok, long post. going out for some second opinion, how do some of you deal with the midi/audio conversion? when do you feel "it's right?" in the back of my mind, i know you should do it ASAP, but the "what ifs" always get in the way. Input?

Cheers...

im the same mate. i cant get my track finished until i mix it down to audio but if i do that and decide to move and change parts then i have to go back. its pretty annoying and is the cause of 70% of my tracks not being finished.

quote:

Originally posted by dj_kane im the same mate. i cant get my track finished until i mix it down to audio but if i do that and decide to move and change parts then i have to go back. its pretty annoying and is the cause of 70% of my tracks not being finished.

haha, amen brotha! now to find a solution...

When I use my Virus B, as soon as I find or edit a sound that I'm going to use, I'll record it to audio immediately. Doing this as early as possible forces me to "commit to the sound". There's no coming back to it days later and fussing with it to no end. You might think "what if later on you find something wrong with it?" If it's an amazing sound that you programmed yourself, then I'd hope that you think it's so awesome that you'd want to save [over] it and therefore can go back to it if you really need to.

And with VSTi's... I usually don't ever render these to audio unless I'm using a CPU-killing synth or patch.

I just bounce everything to audio. Load it up. Then turn off the vst that I was using and if I ever want to change something. Then I just have to turn the vst back on and change whatever. Then bounce it back to audio again. Once I get what im looking for, I dont really change it that much.

Get LOTS of hardware so you never have to bounce to audio again. That's my plan.

quote:

Originally posted by No Left Turn When I use my Virus B, as soon as I find or edit a sound that I'm going to use, I'll record it to audio immediately. Doing this as early as possible forces me to "commit to the sound". There's no coming back to it days later and fussing with it to no end. You might think "what if later on you find something wrong with it?" If it's an amazing sound that you programmed yourself, then I'd hope that you think it's so awesome that you'd want to save [over] it and therefore can go back to it if you really need to. And with VSTi's... I usually don't ever render these to audio unless I'm using a CPU-killing synth or patch.

the "committing to a sound" thing is exactly it...atleast its what i do, in production just like in mixing you need to make sacrifices with where you wanna head with your track!

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja Get LOTS of hardware so you never have to bounce to audio again. That's my plan.

i do it this way.. but otherwise there would still be the freeze option.

or buy a powerfull cpu. the new core 2 duo are great. i don't even have cpu problems with my amd x2 4400+ anymore. i could do whole projects on it with only VSTs.

I bounce all my stuff. Do a smart midi part, record it to a audio channel, then just copy and paste that part if I need it repeated. If theres a delay or reverb or other tail, I duplicate the audiotrack and sort it that way.

Good example is orchestral samples and strings I use sometimes, I really don't want to wait ages for a track to load plus my memory to get filled, so instead I do this in a seperate project, then bounce it down for my master track.

This makes your computer happy
Also, for fx, create loads of group channels and route tracks into them, keeps fx usage low and gives the same result.

if you are selective on the bits you bounce then you shouldnt have a problem. luckily most edm is repetetive so you only have to record a small ammount of audio for a melody, then loop it. instead of recording whole 'track length' tracks of audio you should bounce smaller sections at a time. then keep your midi's moved to the bottom of the project so they keep out of your way but are availabel when one of your sections arnt right..

imo it is a case of getting it right early. get it how you want it before bouncing to audio. i rather spend a lot longer getting it perfect before bouncing so i dont have to piss around later on.

Hey Rich, hows the label going mate?

ok say ive eq'ed my bass and synths then bounce them down to audio wil i have to eq them again?

Not unless you feel you want to eq them more

quote:

Originally posted by Drik Hey Rich, hows the label going mate?

so many good demos received... but now im out of uni i need a job to fund the project. first release awaiting master job so not too long now i hope

thanx for askin mate.

any news on that track from your water competition?

Coolio,

Competition went bonkers mate, some chick with a guitar won
I guess people weren't ready for trance

how bout, for example, if i want to do a slow buildup, or use cutoff, or pan, or volume... and this is done with midi.

would it be a better option to do all this with midi, then bounce to audio, or bounce it untouched first, then do all that to the audio?

i'm thinking, what if i have certain velocity values with the midi, but after i bounce it, i think it's too hard, or too loud. should i go back to the midi and change that or apply the changes to audio?

ive got to the point that even after bouncing everything down to audio it still stutters and the cpu is maxed out so i cant finish my track. im thinking of solutions, has anyone made a track in two separate project files then joined them at the end for the final mixdown? this seems to be the only option i have left.

Tell us more about your project, how many fx you use, what kind of computer you have etc..

computers shit runs very slow.

2.8 ghz processor
512 ram

i have 3 tracks set for my fx and different fx's combined in each one.

ive 8 other audio tracks. one for the intro lead, one for fx sound on the left and one for the right, a pad, main lead, sub lead. then i have my layered bass, high, mid and low.

all the midi tracks are at the bottom of the screen even though they are not being played i think they must be causing something for it to stutter.

my kick and percs are in reason as a rewire so i dont mix them down i leave them as they are.

Don't know if you've turned all the vst(i) off which you're not using.
Even if they aren't being used at the time they consume some precious CPU cycles.
Don't know if all hosts act like this, but Cubase certainly does as well as Ableton.
And if recall right, Renoise is a bit smarter with all this, but you'll have to ask Storyteller about it.
Same with RAM, but this time even if you turn them off they are actually still loaded into your RAM.
Maybe a solution for you would be to bounce the parts down and import them in an new project.
Sequence all the stuff again.
If you did all well in the midi-project you won't need vst(i) in the audio-project or at least not that many.
Just give it a try.

- farris

Isn't just freezing the midi track effective enough?

quote:

Originally posted by farris Don't know if you've turned all the vst(i) off which you're not using. Even if they aren't being used at the time they consume some precious CPU cycles. Don't know if all hosts act like this, but Cubase certainly does as well as Ableton. And if recall right, Renoise is a bit smarter with all this, but you'll have to ask Storyteller about it. Same with RAM, but this time even if you turn them off they are actually still loaded into your RAM. Maybe a solution for you would be to bounce the parts down and import them in an new project. Sequence all the stuff again. If you did all well in the midi-project you won't need vst(i) in the audio-project or at least not that many. Just give it a try. - farris

great idea mate. after imprting them to a new track i was also able to use more vst's. strange are sequencers work.

thanks

quote:

Originally posted by dj_kane ok say ive eq'ed my bass and synths then bounce them down to audio wil i have to eq them again?

no. if its rendered with fx and eq option.
if u feel u need further eq or fx, do it, but ure trying to save cpu, right?

vst

You could always write a mix using the Microsoft sound bank, or your soundcard's built in PCM or soundbank, and then once your track has all the basic elements, you apply hardware, and software to your tracks, and effects.

The sucky thing about this method is that it sounds like a horses fart until you apply all the good effects. After like 5 minutes of hearing horse farts it just fatigues your ears like nothing else.

Some vsts like Z3ta still use CPU power when you switch them off. To hel p regain some CPU cylces, you can decrease the quality to low, and turn off 2x oversampling. Also, you can set the oscillators temperarily to normal mode (instead of multi). This works with other vsts too. Also try to take advantage of VSts that have multiple channel outs. That way you won't have multiple instances of vsts running.

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