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Another Kick Thread and EQing

Sorry for the post. I know it has been talked about over and over and over, But i am still in need of some help..

So i keep starting new tracks after i have felt that i am bored of the one before... I am realizing that My Tracks are lacking lots of EQing and tightness...

I am trying to keep it simple and really Get my Kick, Bass, Hats,and Percs to sound really tight before i move on to the rest of the track.. I am really trying to make my Kicks THUMP. Ive been reading all over about Eqing and Low shelving and so on. My question is really how to really EQ my sounds to really fit in the tracks.. I know every sound is difference and its usually all prefrence, But i need some opinions on what to really look for when im trying to really get the fullest sound.. I read the manual on Ozone mastering system, It was really informative, but doesnt relate to our music. SOO.. How can i really get my drum sounds and Bass to really be tight in the track..

What Steps Do you Use when you try to achieve that "Sound". My tracks are dull and way lower and rough than the professional sound.. I am using Logic Platiunum PC 5.5 annd i feel as if the Audio Tracks do not sound as crisp on it would on like FL studio. the MIDI tracks sound GREAT in Logic.. I can make a simple dumb beat 4 on floor in Fl studio and it will sound way better than logic. It has more drive and tightness to it..

SO PLEASE... HELP ME MAKE MY TRACKS Have more Tightness in it and excitement. I feel as if my tracks are good now, but need to be tightned up a little and they will sound a little better.

The most important part is choosing the right sample. There's a whole lot of crappy kick samples out there. And most good ones just won't fit in your track.
There aren't really any set rules on what frequencies to EQ since it differs so much between tracks and the samples themselves. Be careful with boosting frequencies by alot though. Cutting is preferred rather than boosting, there's less chance of messing up the sound.

quote:

Originally posted by Eldritch The most important part is choosing the right sample. There's a whole lot of crappy kick samples out there. And most good ones just won't fit in your track. There aren't really any set rules on what frequencies to EQ since it differs so much between tracks and the samples themselves. Be careful with boosting frequencies by alot though. Cutting is preferred rather than boosting, there's less chance of messing up the sound.

Yes i understand that cutting the freq is better. But now as far as the Kick goes. I know you can make the kick sound better than it is though Using low shelving. What bout the compression and side chaining.. How can i really really use it to make everything sound tight.. I know there isnt any magical way to do it, but i want to know what you would do from the start. or as u go

With compression I usually adjust the input gain, threshhold and ratio until it sounds good. Almost always with a long attack time. The long attack really gives the kick more punch.

I personally love richg's kicks and he once told me that 20ms for an attack time is pretty good. It also really depends on the sample though. Read a little bit more and learn and then practice practice practice.

quote:

I can make a simple dumb beat 4 on floor in Fl studio and it will sound way better than logic.

wtf?

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja wtf?

Just giving an example dude. Saying that the quality sounds different in FL studio than LOgic. I dont know why u said WTF

I dont compress my kicks, but i have i great set of kick samples, so they dont need it! But i do eq them a bit. Cut around 30, a small boost around 35, Cut around 150 - 200, small boost around 2500.

I know this i verry general, but on the other hand, its a verry general question. It often depens on how your kick sounds!

Cheers
C

Here's my take:

First of all: You NEED to make sure you have good monitoring conditions. Otherwise you won't be able to hear what your plugs are doing to the sound. This is VERY important. Good monitoring means good monitors, but it also means good environment.

Then, as has already been suggested in this thread, make sure you are using a good kick sample to begin with! You can waste hours and hours trying to eq and compress a bad sample and you will never get anywhere. Seriously, try experiementing a little bit and audition different kick-samples together with the bass. When you find the right kick sample, you should be able to hear it - and then it probably only needs a little bit of tweaking with an eq if any at all.

However, sometimes you also need to tighten the bass. Obviously it depends on the sound (and the pattern), but here are some suggestions to try.
Cut (using HP-filter) anything below 25-30 hz. Sometimes you'll also want to low shelf in the area from 30 (or whatever cutoff you used) to approx 200-300, just a little bit to get rid of some mudness.
Another thing you can try, to tighten up the very bottom end, is to put a multiband compressor on the bass channel. Make sure that none of the bands are doing anything at all, except for the compressor for the lowest band. You will need to adjust the area, attack, release, threshold etc. for this band in a manner that makes the compressor work on the "problematic" area (i.e. the area that is causing the mix to sound muddy). This will tighten up the bottom.

If you find that the kick and the bass both sound good seperately but not together, you could try to do the following.
Put an analyzer (could be Waves PAZ if you have that) on both channels and try to get a visual idea of where the energy is in each track. (This will be the area where the line is dancing the most). Then you'll apply EQ to the tracks and cut in each track, trying to make room for the other (i.e. cut the kick a little bit in the area where the bass has its energy and vice versa). Ofcourse you should only do this as long as it SOUNDS good, but the analysing part often can be a very good idea to lead you in the direction of what areas are causing problems and where to cut (and sometimes boost).

Another thing you can do, is to sidechain the bass with the kick. This way the bass won't prevent the kick from cutting through the mix.

If you need the advice to be more specific, I think you'll have to give information about your kick and bass-pattern as well as a sample of each. Otherwise it's hard to tell you what to do. As you said yourself - no hard rules here...

Regards

quote:

Originally posted by RivalMan Here's my take Regards

Dude. That was great. I really apprecaite you taking the time out to write that for us..

I started changing around the Kicks. Doubling up the Kicks and so on..

BTW I am using my Mackie HR824 speakers to monitor. Which in my opinion are pretty good..

Kick is starting a little better. Bass still messing around with.. Now i feel as if when i hear tracks today. The percussion and hats and such. Are really tight and flush with everything else. They sound like they really sit right. In Logic when i work on percussion and things to that nature. the Sound is really dry and dead( it could also just be me). I will post a sample of something really simple to show you what i mean...

If you can here or really notice anything that you can hear wrong or not right please PLEASE PLEASE PLease criticize me as muich as possible. I will try to post 2 tracks

Here is the Samples of what it sounds like now.

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


It has really nothing in it. Just something you can listen to . Just so you can get an idea of what i am talking about

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


Thats another track i am working on.. Listen to them and see what you can input me on. I love to hear what you guys have to say. It really helps me a lot and i am sure tons of people out there.


Thanks again

I'm on my laptop right now. Will have a listen when I get to my studio later today.

I think the Mackies are great. I've never mixed on them myself, but a friend of mine who's been working professionally in audio production for a decade swears to these monitors. It's all personal, but he can't live without these monitors - and he has great golden ears! So I think it's fair to assume that the monitors are very good...

Anyway, I'll get back to you once I've had a chance of listening to your samples on my monitors.

Regards

the rule to comping a kick -

attack - 45-50ms

release - 20ms

thresh - play until it makes an effect

ratio - 2-3:1

make up gain - dont use it until you master using the rest. it gives you a false feeling of how good the kick is by making it louder. - i find getting a track sounding good and then going into the comp side of things works to get a good result. get the track good without the comp, and then make it better by shaving a little more headroom off the kick using the compressor.

you shouldnt eq a kick sample very much imo. if its a good one leave it like that - if its bad then get another. the people who make good kick samples make em way better than any of us will im sure! i will add a boost around the high of a kick if a want more click to it but dont touch the low eq - you will certainly make it worse.

Yeah i really try to stay away from any compressor if i dont need it till the end of the Mix down and Mastering.. I used to have it on, but realized that the compressor was just making the track louder and the volumes were all messed up when i turned the comp. off. So i just try to make the track sound as good as i can really get it to sound before i start adding the compressor and such....

I have updated the tracks again. Soo give those a listen please and let me know if you here any changes need to be looked at


and thanks everyone really for the help

quote:

Originally posted by Biatchzxz quote: I can make a simple dumb beat 4 on floor in Fl studio and it will sound way better than logic. wtf? Just giving an example dude. Saying that the quality sounds different in FL studio than LOgic. I dont know why u said WTF

He said WTFFF?? because that statement is something really dumb to say
For starters, if u were actually able to use Logic , you wouldnt be using FL!! And you think that u can make anything in FL and make it sound better than Logic???!!!!!! please man, that just shows u dont know how to use a proper sequencer like Logic.

quote:

Originally posted by pixxxan He said WTFFF?? because that statement is something really dumb to say For starters, if u were actually able to use Logic , you wouldnt be using FL!! And you think that u can make anything in FL and make it sound better than Logic???!!!!!! please man, that just shows u dont know how to use a proper sequencer like Logic.

honestly I fucking Love Logic and been using it for a while.. i am using it on PC 5.5. And it just seemed to me that it sounded a little better. thats my opinion. Why u have to start shit. I wasnt being an asshole dude.

Hey...

Just had a chance to listen to your samples. Not bad EQ'ing at all imo. I really don't have a lot of comments.

I think however you might want to high pass the hats a little bit higher in the "Joe D" sample. I hear a lot of mids in your hats. It could work like this, but I always like to make them a little bit more "sharp" by filtering out anything below a rather high frequency (using high pass). You could also make greater usage of the 2D-dimension on the hats (i.e. pan it to one side or put an auto-panner or something on it).

Anyway, your bassline sounds great on my monitors, but you might wanna low shelf a little bit around 120-200 (not much - and it's just a suggestion). Also you might wannna balance it a little bit more with the kick. One approach could be to cut a little bit more in the kick (use the analyzer on the bass track to find the frequencies). I also hear some phasing-issues, but that might be due to the mp3-encoding (it probably is).

Regards

im just saying you cant make and statement like " a kick line sounds better on fruity than on Logic" just based only on ur own experience. There are a thousands ways to work on logic to make that kick and bassline pump. Hell, the best trance tracks are made on Logic. Thats what im saying just if u knew both programs to perfection could u make that statement. And if u did i seriously doubt u would.
peace. not trying to make anything personal, but that comment is just not true!

i have a kick sample well loads of them, but i have one that a buddy sent me and needs no eq whatsoever, its a really good sample, i forgot who he got it from. but i dont necessarily have troubles eqing or compressig my kicks.the overall track yeah but not really my kicks.

theres a post on this you may have seen it

http://trance.nu/v3/forums/viewtopi...460fdcf5dcc72a5

basically you layer two kick drums merge them into one sample

take the highs our of one and one boost the lows and add some delay on the lower one then add some compression

then your set.

quote:

Originally posted by pixxxan im just saying you cant make and statement like " a kick line sounds better on fruity than on Logic" just based only on ur own experience. There are a thousands ways to work on logic to make that kick and bassline pump. Hell, the best trance tracks are made on Logic. Thats what im saying just if u knew both programs to perfection could u make that statement. And if u did i seriously doubt u would. peace. not trying to make anything personal, but that comment is just not true!

Listen, i understand your point. Dont get me wrong. I really know that you ca nmake it sound good. But what was my question that i was asking. If i already knew i wouldnt ask..

quote:

Originally posted by RivalMan Hey... Just had a chance to listen to your samples. Not bad EQ'ing at all imo. I really don't have a lot of comments. I think however you might want to high pass the hats a little bit higher in the "Joe D" sample. I hear a lot of mids in your hats. It could work like this, but I always like to make them a little bit more "sharp" by filtering out anything below a rather high frequency (using high pass). You could also make greater usage of the 2D-dimension on the hats (i.e. pan it to one side or put an auto-panner or something on it). Anyway, your bassline sounds great on my monitors, but you might wanna low shelf a little bit around 120-200 (not much - and it's just a suggestion). Also you might wannna balance it a little bit more with the kick. One approach could be to cut a little bit more in the kick (use the analyzer on the bass track to find the frequencies). I also hear some phasing-issues, but that might be due to the mp3-encoding (it probably is). Regards

Dude. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.. I really apprecaite you taking the time out to listen to my tracks. Thanks for the all the feedback i will try to do what you said and will post again.. All your help will just make me a better producer. Thanks once again

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