TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Buying monitors
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Buying monitors

Hello.

I'm considering having a pair of monitors for christmas as this is the missing link in my setup.

What i wanted to know is this...I currently run my pc through my hi fi speakers. If i buy monitors then any music I want to listen to on my computer will be through these. I know that monitors are what is needed for music production, but are they good to use for general music listening or will the music sound flat compared to through a hifi.

This might be a really silly question but as I understand it, monitors will not add any bass, or eq settings the way a hi fi will so i weren't sure if this meant that music wont sound as good.

Or am i completely wrong??

It will sound good but, why don't you listen to some CDs on monitors in your local store ? You will see by yourself.

Songs that are lower quality or have been produced poorly will stand out and the ones that have been produced well and are high quality will sound good. Basicly
Bad = Worse
Good = Better

You probably don't want to listen to music in the exact same environment as you produce. As the previous poster stated, tracks which are poorly produced (and there are a lot of those) are going to sound a lot worse on monitors than on a regular setup. But even with the good productions, when you're listening you generally want a subwoofer, DSP, EQ, and other things that a hi-fi gives you, whereas monitors are made specifically to give you "just the facts".

It certainly won't make your regular music sound bad, but I think you'll miss the hi-fi if you start using monitors for everyday listening.

Re: Buying monitors

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con Hello. I'm considering having a pair of monitors for christmas as this is the missing link in my setup. What i wanted to know is this...I currently run my pc through my hi fi speakers. If i buy monitors then any music I want to listen to on my computer will be through these. I know that monitors are what is needed for music production, but are they good to use for general music listening or will the music sound flat compared to through a hifi.

I certainly recommend getting some monitors. It's funny (not pointing at you specifically) how so many people underestimate the importance of monitors in music production. They'll spend thousand of dollars on hardware, synths, software etc. but they'll try to get budget-monitors or even work with hi-fi speakers. I don't get this. Monitors are perhaps THE most important thing in the studio. In my opinion more important than your sequencer, more important than the brand of your EQ etc. If you can't hear what you're doing to the mix, you can't mix properly and you'll never evolve as a producer. Imagine to choose the colour for the walls in your room while wearing 3D-goggles or sunglasses. No one will do that, and yet a lot of people are still mixing through hi-fi speakers. It just doesn't work. It should be simple logic (no pon intended), but for some reason it's not.

Ok - now I've got that out of my system. Nice :-) And my apologies if you feel "yelled at". I've been there myself so no worries...

Anyway, I recommend getting the BEST monitors you can possibly afford (and then some). And this is one of the few cases where "best" doesn't mean "if it sounds good, it is good". This clich� doesn't apply to monitors. They are supposed to sound not good, not bad, but transparent and revealing. As others have put it in this thread, this means that well mixed music will sound great and poorly mixed music will sound bad.

As an inexperienced producer, imho, you shouldn't go to the store and listen to some pair of monitors and then base your decision upon your ears. You probably won't know what to listen for and you'll end up choosing some monitors for the wrong reason. I would recommend reading a lot of interviews and trust the recommendations from experienced engineers and producers within the EDM genre (don't trust the salesmen, he's likely working on comission).

Also I actually recommend listening to your "everyday music" through your monitors. At first you might find some music a bit more "boring" and dull, but you need to "get use" to the sound of your favorite tracks - "uncoloured". This will help your mixing skills tremendously.
Everyday-listening through monitors will give you a reference of the sound on an unconsious level.

Another thing: Don't think that just because you've choosen the best Genelec costing 25.000 USD that you'll get flat frequency response. A thing that is also very important is your room and the way it has been accoustically treated. Test have shown that when you place good pro monitors in a "standard" untreated room that you're likely to have a couple of dips at as much as 20 db at certain important frequencies even when listening in the sweet spot...
I know, we are all on a budget. And monitors should be your first concern. All I'm saying is that it doesn't end there...

Just my 2 cents...

Regards

Cheers for the replies everyone.

I wouldnt normally choose to listen to music through the monitors but anything on my computer (downloads, DJ sets) would go through them. I suppose I could just change the connections on my sound card for when I want to listen to music and change back again when I want to produce.

In terms of how much to spend, I would love to spend as much as possible, but I have limited money so unfortunately I am on a budget.

However I do remember Compter Music magazine doing a monitor round up and there were some Yamaha budget ones (around �180??) that got 5 star stating that they were the best by far in that price range. Anybody know which ones these were by any chance?

No - but i must totally agree with Rivalman on what he was blabbin about because I myself did exactly what he was talking about when he mentioned talking to as many producers and sound engineers as possible and it comes down to the simple fact that "You Get What You Pay For." At the same time, shelling out the money will not make you a great producer... sorry for the no shit sherlock comment but it had to be said haha. and yes i totally can tell u from expeirence... bullshit acoustics Fuck shit up. i have a pair of the Alesis M1 active monitors.. theyre legit as hell.. well worth the high 3 figures i paid for em and i was happy as hell with them till i moved into my appt at college... shitty college walls mean terrible eqing and mixing.. had to clutter the hell outta my room and attempt to dampen the shit out of the place.. it worked. but what im sayin is my room took expensive high qual monitors and turned em into reverb machines. so rivals right it doesnt just come down to the monitors u need to make the space appropriate for them as well as a shit load of other thigns... wow sorry i just blathered too haha

did i even make sense?

Completely agree with RivalMan..

Monitors are THE most important part of your studio..I recently invested in Dynaudio BM5A's..Its not even funny how much my mixes have improved since then..

I bought budget monitors before these (KRK Rokit 6) but they could not compare..Basically you get what you pay for, so i would suggest to save up & buy the best you can afford otherwise you'll find yourself selling them at one point anyway..

The room in question will be about 9 feet square and will be relatively empty apart from the desk the monitors will be on, a leather sofa and a couple of other bits. Does this sound like an acceptable environment or a shit one?

shit.

Not only the monitoring is very important but the acoustics as well. I recommend to at least have a lot of different materials (Or just a huge mess if you like) in the room which will create a decent space to work in (sound-wise).

Of course you could invest in acoustic materials and stuff, but then it would be a good idea to look into it a bit first

i had a post on sound dampening like last week so look it up here "soundproofing+dampening" something liek that.. anyways u could prolly proffessionally dampen it for a lil over 200$ if you want.. theres a mock setup on the thread i started too. the clutter effect is solid too though.. itll definitely do the trick more or less just as long as u isolate the monitors from vibrating walls and windows. also keep in mind.. when u set up ur monitors, think about what ur putting them on.. if its a hrd table put some foam or towels.. etc. beneath them to take care ofthe reverb issues with the hefty monitors and cover whats immediately behind them as well.. this will certainly help dampen what u hear as air will be thrown directly out of them from the rear. additionally, youll want to create more or less a triangle between the monitors and you for the best mixdown experience. so position them pointed towards where you will be producing and prefferrably ear-level. this will give you the greatest chance of a proper mixdown.

Dynaudio BM-6A for professional results...

This is all good advice. Thanks a lot. Problem is Im still just a beginner really so can't justify spending loads on them. On top of this my missus is gonna make it difficult for me to clutter the room up with shite. She prefers the minimal look

My main purpose for buying some is because at the moment I'm struggling to eq my sounds well as I'm not able to pick out the conflicting frequencies (even with spectral analysers) though this may be down to my ears rather than my hi fi speakers .

So with all you've mentioned so far, let me ask this..

Is it worth me buying some budget monitors (under �200) in a room where conditions aren't ideal or would it be a complete waste of money. Would it still help me significantly or would the improvement be marginal and not worth the cash>

It all depends on you...With the untreated room and budget monitors you'll have trouble mixing, deciding how much bass you need, hearing the reverb and so on.
But, if you're on a budget try concentrating on making interesting arrangements, effects, melodies, basically a tune that works from beggining to an end. Give it to other people to criticize and tell you if they like it (objective opinions only). If you see that this is something that really interests you, you might want to start investing further. Don't waste your hard earned money on something you'll drop in couple of months...
Cheers

Lots of great advice in here.

I was going to get cheaper monitors until I had a conversation with a few people, read reviews etc.

I ended up using a bit of my savings to get a pair of Mackie HR624's (about 600 notes), and it was the best decision I made. Showed me just how shit I was at mixing, and now I feel I can get somewhere.

Check the song in my sig, I finished if off mixing wise with the new monitors I got.

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con In terms of how much to spend, I would love to spend as much as possible, but I have limited money so unfortunately I am on a budget.

Depending on just how limited, you might want to consider a monitor control switch. They can run anywhere from under $50 (the cheap M-Audio stuff) to over $300 (the "big knob"). I think it would be worth investigating if you plan to produce and listen casually to music using the same machine - and it's a good tool for mastering as well, gives you two easy reference points.

You can just plug and unplug, like you said yourself. If the ports are on the back of the machine, that could be pretty cumbersome, but it's all about the budget really.

quote:

Originally posted by s-cube Completely agree with RivalMan.. Monitors are THE most important part of your studio..I recently invested in Dynaudio BM5A's..Its not even funny how much my mixes have improved since then.. I bought budget monitors before these (KRK Rokit 6) but they could not compare..Basically you get what you pay for, so i would suggest to save up & buy the best you can afford otherwise you'll find yourself selling them at one point anyway..

Ive got Dynaudio BM5as too.

However, it takes a while for them to ummm...how do I explain...'open up.' When I first got them they sounded kind of recessed, dry and the sub just overpowered everything. Its weird. They didn't sound that great fresh out of the box anyway.

Listening to 'Hybrid - If I Survive' on day one, the kick drum was like a blurry smudge of sub bass with a little click coming from somewhere behind the smudge. The snare sounded further back and a little quiet which is weird because I went from speakers where that break just thundered (with 7 watts of pure power! ahaha!). However, I am listening to Lost Tribe - Distant Voices (Angel Edit) right now and theres this big grin on my face kind of like this --->

One thing to bear in mind going down the Dynaudio route - they are really sensitive to placement and room acoustics. If you are monitoring in a small, untreated room the sub can get way too intense. Unless your bedroom has studio quality acoustics, moving the BM5as around can make them sound really different.

They also go freakishly loud before the amps cut out and they don't distort a great deal at that amplitude either - which I guess is a hallmark of a great amplifier. Be really freaking careful with gain control on this thing because they have no volume control or gain kill switchs on the front of the units. Only on the rear of the speaker cabinet and they take a second or too to tail out the sound once you trip them. You also dont get any tell tale 'hiss' that tends to tell you 'oh shit dude, these are set freaking loud...'

The first time you can tell its going to blast out a kick drum at 120 dB is after you have already done it. Which is scary because the first thing I did was a gain test, dropped winamp's pregain down to 40% and my internal mixer gain down to -20dB. Then I played a kic kdrum and it was so loud it gave me an instant ear ache. Always have gain controls in the taskbar and start at -INF dB and work up.

After wearing them in for a few days they open up quite alot. If you go Dynaudio, give it some time to wear in the drivers. They sound alot beter after a few weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative One thing to bear in mind going down the Dynaudio route - they are really sensitive to placement and room acoustics. If you are monitoring in a small, untreated room the sub can get way too intense. Unless your bedroom has studio quality acoustics, moving the BM5as around can make them sound really different. After wearing them in for a few days they open up quite alot. If you go Dynaudio, give it some time to wear in the drivers. They sound alot beter after a few weeks.

You're right about them sounding better with time but so far i haven't really had the opportunity to crank them up to their full potential since my neighbour is an old guy with his room right next to my studio!

What i like about them is that you can still use them at a very low volume & be able to hear everything perfectly! Though i do need to put them up to check the levels every now & then..

I'm using them in a relatively small room untreated room as well..How far do you keep them from the back wall?

I'm thinking of getting Auralex mopads to separate them from the desk, they're supposed to tighten up your low n mid end..

quote:

Originally posted by s-cube You're right about them sounding better with time but so far i haven't really had the opportunity to crank them up to their full potential since my neighbour is an old guy with his room right next to my studio! What i like about them is that you can still use them at a very low volume & be able to hear everything perfectly! Though i do need to put them up to check the levels every now & then.. I'm using them in a relatively small room untreated room as well..How far do you keep them from the back wall? I'm thinking of getting Auralex mopads to separate them from the desk, they're supposed to tighten up your low n mid end..

Im in a small room too. I have them about 3 feet away from the rear wall. Its the rear ports that made me get them out of the way. At medium to high gain you can feel the force of the air shooting out of the back of the speakers and the bass really swells behind them. Horribly so. Keep them away from back walls. Unfortunately my room is still tiny so no matter how much moving around I do the right speaker is about 8cm away from the side wall, so I get a bit of sideways reflection and I am sort of aware of it being annoying.

Regardless, to get them sounding comfortable I still had to roll off after 60hz at -4 dB on both speakers because the bass reflections were messing with my head. Even still you are still aware of the sub in my room and it feels and sounds solid.

Heres another thing I like about the BM5a. I can hear stuff that sounds shit in professional tunes. You may have heard of a band called Explosions in the Sky. I love them and if you like melodic music, you have to hear them. Anyway, they have free tracks on their website (and they are some of the really damn good ones, not shitty demos). Check out the song 'Your Hand in Mind.' Around 6:08 you start to hear a shimmering crash cymbal but theres an upper mid range shrill which starts up well before the the shimmer kicks in. On BM5as you can hear that shrill harmonic a mile off and I don't think it was intended.

Im going to get some mo pads at some point too but I would rather get some minitraps and do some moving around to stop some of the reflections around my room first. Mo pads do actually work but its more to stop the speakers coupling and resonating with your work surface - which you only really start to notice when you monitor fairly loud. It seems that both you and me don't because we have neighbors.

And anyway it only becomes a really significant problem when you play them at ungodly volumes. If you use monitor at pretty low levels I would go with some acoustic foam first. Im saving up for a few bits and peices right now.

Also about cranking them up. I'm not sure if I want to drive them so hard that the heatsink starts to burn and the amps cut out. They can go loud enough in a small room that your ears will seriously hurt before you hit the uppder limit of what the amps can put out.

For this reason I cant see why anyone would want to use BM6as at home in a small room. If you have a control room and a studio then go for it. The amps make the difference. At low/middling kind of level the BM5a and BM6a sound almost the same to me. Then you have to stand back a bit further and crank them up higher to tell that the BM6as start to take over. But christ I cant imagine monitoring at that level with those speakers 2 feet away from my head.

Happy BM5A user here too Sorry if this thread is getting too Dynaudio-ish..

I was going to get cheaper monitors, but kept wondering which ones for so long that I was able to collect some more money and get these

I like them better than Genelec 1030A's at friends studio. They really can go too loud without any sign of stress, and also reveal all the details at low volumes.

I've also used Klein+Hummel O 300 at the friends studio and they were weird to mix on. They seemed to separate the mix too much and volumes and eq's were hard to control. This was just my experience of the short time working with those. Maybe with more time I would have got used to them. Just an example that more expensive isn't always necessarily better.

Anyway, I think you basically get what you pay for in the sub 1000 EUR (pair) monitors, but after that it gets more a matter of personal preference.

To answer your original question, I personally listen most of the music on monitors. Well produced songs sound amazing and bad ones..well..worse. Fortunately most of the music I listen to seems to be well produced. I wouldn't worry about how the music sounds on your monitors, you should listen on them anyway to get used to the sound and learn the monitors.

@ Derivative

Sorry guys for hijacking this thread but i'd like to know more about using acoustic foam to treat a room!

Do you usually put it on the reflection points on the side walls? I guess you would also put some in the corners, behind the monitors too right?

How about putting a big foam mattress behind my monitors for a cheap ass acoustic treatment

It'd be cool if you can show me some links of which foam you're saving up for..

I guess another thing that also helps out bring the potential of your monitoring is your soundcard..For now i've got a presonus firebox but am saving up for a RME Fireface 400..

Derivative, for all your posts on monitors and acoustic treatment etc (all sound advice btw - no pun intended ), I have yet to hear any thing from you. Any chance you could post something up?

Bm6a user here - True about Dynaudio's sounding better after some brake in time

Auralex MO Pads - Those things accually work... Make's the bass tighter, less vibrations go toward the desk, or speaker stands, whatever you choose..

Acoustic foam - Could not live without it.. Treated room sounds so much better..

MiniTraps - Got three simmmilar design, hanging from the ceiling.. Not a bad thing.

Ohh and buying good monitors first time, will save you buying monitors again later...

quote:

Do you usually put it on the reflection points on the side walls? I guess you would also put some in the corners, behind the monitors too right? How about putting a big foam mattress behind my monitors for a cheap ass acoustic treatment It'd be cool if you can show me some links of which foam you're saving up for.. I guess another thing that also helps out bring the potential of your monitoring is your soundcard..For now i've got a presonus firebox but am saving up for a RME Fireface 400..

Stand a full length mirror against a wall and sit down in your chair in front of it, about the same distance as you use to monitor. Make a mental note of the points on the ceilings and walls where you can no longer see them reflected. Start by sticking two pads on either side at those points and one on the ceiling. You might need to move things around here and there but thats a nice approximation. If your desk is not central to the room or really close to a side wall then I don't know what I would do and and would go all trial and error :O The best thing to do I guess would be to move the desk and get the speaker away from the wall but its not possible in my room.

Dont use a matress. Same deal with carpet. It only really attenuates very high frequency sound and the effect is not noticeable. It also turns your room into a fire hazard. Acoustic foam is fire retardant and looks neater anyway plus its a more effective sound absorber.

I'm just saving up for the cheapest auralex roominator kit.

To the OP. I know you want to avoid the super expensive jazz and all that but dude, trust me on this one. Dont skimp on your monitors. Skimp on your effects and your synths and your toys but don't skimp on your monitors. If you can't hear it - you can't fix it. Reason I havent uploaded much in the past 18 months is because I have been using these: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...0017resized.jpg (I know I know - rent in Dublin, Ireland is ridiculous and I lose most of my paypacket on it, bills and student loan repayments. Thats my excuse anyway)

It seriously makes mixing down a fucking nightmare and it takes 10 times longer than it needs to in order to get listenable results. Just get it right first time around. I've had BM5as for about 3 weeks (ordered them about 3 months ago. Digital Village were gay and sent me two broken ones first time round). I'm still breaking them in and beginning to get a feel for things swing on these monsters. But they are good. Ive done a few corrections on existing sound tests but nothing major as yet. However, its fixed a number of mix problems right from the word go.

If your girl likes the clean minimal look - god damn she will fall in love with BM5as. The only thing she wont like is probably you spending too much time geeking out in front of the computer making annoying bleepy noises and maybe the loudness of said annoying bleepy noises. But this is why being single is good and you don't need a girfriend. You need BM5as.

They are kind of big but they look gorgeous. Stock internet pictures dont do them justice so I'll take some photos of mine and up them tommorow.

If you absolutely cannot justify sinking �700 on monitors (and fair enough relly) then my favourite budget monitor was the Tannoy Reveal 6D. Going up another wrung the Event TR-6 impressed but the build quality of the unit I auditioned was questionable (the fucking right driver rattled and both of them had port chuffing at high levels). Going up a bit further the Event BAS 20/20 I kind of liked and then the ADAM P11A was my favourite (and the most expensive monitor I auditioned) tied with the Dynaudio BM5a. I bought the BM5as. This was the great payoff to living 15 minutes away from the Digital Village in Southampton. Then I had to move countries. Bah.

I never got to listen to any genelecs or the Mackie HR824 which loads of people seem to spooge over and gush: 'dood - wheres the sub?! My speakers have an invisible subwoofer! dood!'

So take that into account.

Pretty much everything I listend to below the BAS 20/20 had something wrong with it in my opinion. Maybe not a dealbreaker but I wasn't really knocked sideways until the dynaudio and the adams. Hell the BAS 20/20 even comes from Event, the company reknowned for tech support so bad, its better to try and fix the problem yourself than let them have a go at it.

I hated the Alesis M1 MK2 actives. Hated the KRK V-8s. The V-8s can go stupidly stupidly loud. Like, so loud you would never be able to drive the amp to capacity 3 feet away from your head and not totally destroy your hearing. But it doesn't go loud very gracefully. Using V-8s in a small bedroom would just be the most pointless thing I can think of with respect to monitor purchases off the top of my head. I just don't see the point unless you like not using 9/10s of the amp available to you. Either that or you like pissing off neighbors. Or you enjoy the feeling of your ears DYING.

@ DJDIRTY

That's a wicked studio dude

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.