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-- The Debates: Issue #4 - Recording Industry vs. File-Swapping
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The Debates: Issue #4 - Recording Industry vs. File-Swapping

Time for a more technological debate after 3 very serious issues.

The RIAA vs. Napster/Kazaa/Gokster/Morpheus/Aimster

Who is right? Who will win? What is going to happen in the future?

Voice your opinion here.

i think it depends what type of music.

If your talking about mainstream shit, i'd say file-swapping... simply b/c those prices are jacked up anyways, they've been making billions off innocent buyers all throughout the 80's and 90's anyways.. and most artists get commercial and movie deals now anyway....

if your talking about underground, its good to an extent b/c it helps share music where its otherwise unavailable.... take the USA for instance... you can't find shit for trance over here... TA and AG are the only ways really.... except for the commercial trance like Safri Duo which you can get on the odd imported trance collection CD's... (that also have castles in the sky...)

...and livesets... if it wasn't for AG, nobody but the people who ripped them would ever have them.

The DJ industry whole-heartedly supports the music industry IMO b/c you have to buy vinyl to spin it... so there's no arguement there.

I think only the pop, hip hop, and mainstream rock industry would be hurt by this... but those guys make so much money anyway, who cares?

LoL
-ABT-

Hmmm...tough one...

File Swapping evens the playing field for the new artist and (in the words of Chuck D) gives the new artist a choice of being "pimped" by the record label that would "represent" them or not.
RIAA is shitting their pants because they are rapidly loosing their distribution power because of the Internet and are trying to strangle-hold everything that's eating away at their pie.
Napster, Morpheus, Scour and even Internet Radio Streaming (NOOO!!! :whip are all holes in the gas tank for RIAA that they have to plug for them to even exist in the future. If they don't plug them FAST they risk their own existance, hence they react by killing the new technology or bending them to their own rules.
Look at the Vinyl-CD paradigm; it took less than 10 years for vinyl to be come pretty much obsolete! (Minus you DJs... )
I'm waiting to see what exactly they're going to do when it comes to the PtP (Peer-to-Peer) technologies like Gnuetella, iMesh, etc where there is NO central servers to choke. They'd have to close down the Internet lol!

Now morally if you like the artist, then hell yea, I'll buy the CD. But I'm not shelling out $20 bucks for a CD that has one song on it I like (and for how long?). It was bad enough with vinyl albums never mind the small cost of creating a very inexpensive CD.
This to me is FAIR. There is an expectation from me (the customer) for their favorite artists to PERFORM and not produce any crap just to fill the rest of the CD so I'd buy that ONE song.
Gendre of music (mainstream or not) has absolutely nothing to do with whether I'll buy the CD or not, if it's a good CD, it's a good CD. But you won't catch me running out to buy the latest Britney or a prefabbed 'boy' band - ick. These are great examples of industries reaping the benefits of their own creation, which are so large they eclipse smaller more deserving artists that I'd normally not even know existed without the Internet and people like yourself who all have a common interest. Trance!
Long live Trance and TA!!!

I honestly cannot buy a CD unless I enjoy 60% of the songs on it. Otherwise I feel like I'm getting ripped off. I wouldn't by a DVD where the first half of the movie was good and the end was shitty. And the prices have gotten wayyyy too out of control. $20 for a CD that costs them 10 cents to make.

basically this all goes into economics. the one quote from a pop music artist i truly believe is that of Brian, umm someone (he makes RnB music), but he said: "I wish that all music was shipped in white boxes with only the name of the artist written on it, because then music would be about talent and craftsmanship, rather than image." its an interesting idea. bands like Radiohead maintain a following without pop hits, yet MTV keeps telling me the life of a pop star is 'really hard' because they have to be out there everyday 'selling' their music. THATS the fucking problem. MUSIC NEEDS TO SELL ITSELF.

in this day and age, as Devbert said- i NEED to know that more than half of any cd i buy is quality. frankly then, p2p or file sharing only helps the RIAA - even if they dont give a shit about the music i listen to. if i KNOW that the cd is good, ill buy it. if i have no way to tell (and with trance a 30sec clip on CDNOW doesnt cut it) - i WONT buy that cd, until i know. its not like they can 'fool' me into buying shit with salesmanship.

beyond that the RIAA cant save itself by stopping Napster and every sharing utility that follows - and they CANT stop them all...their money hungry practices are destroying them from the inside. a cd that is selling on a wide market would NEVER cost more than 2 bucks for them to produce, yet they overcharge. it gets even more rediculous when the artists being sold arent getting more than a 5% cut of THEIR music. the music industry is fucking itself...now i have to go cry for all the Cash Money Millionaires that wont be in 5 years...boo hoo/

And notice how it is all the rich as fuck artists complaining, not the up-and-comers.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert And notice how it is all the rich as fuck artists complaining, not the up-and-comers.

AND i bet that largely has to do with the fact they realize that the RIAA is fucking everyone over, and THATS why they are so concerned about losing money. they either realize that they arent raking in enough dough to survive, or that thier product wont last, so they need money now!! ugh/

If it wasn't for online music, I never would have been introduced to trance. Now it is my hobby.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert If it wasn't for online music, I never would have been introduced to trance. Now it is my hobby.

it USED to be my hobby about 1.5 years ago. back in the infancy of TA and the boom that was Napster i had all sorts of shit. now i dont because AG can stick itself, but beyond that i almost stopped coming to TA because this scene started to stagnate and turn into petty bickering (ie Dre and Metallica). obviously its improved, and could never be on their level. i still stay away from the music discussion tho...strange/

When did the scene get stagnate?

Here is my opinion

For yrs....ppl have been paying too much for cd's and getting ripped off by record companies and now that technology has improved...cd companies realize that ppl realize that ppl have found they don't need them. Record Companies (big 5) are also being sued for cd price fixing by the us dept of justice. This should be interesting and i frankly have given up with the whole songs thing....i like live sets personally even tho they are illegal too. Metallica, dr dre can rant all they want about being screwed.....imo artists are being screwed by record companies and ppl are starting to backlash. Last i heard, all record companies made huge profits last year. Metallica can be quiet because in 1984, they released an album that got them sued because they covered other groups songs without permission and put it on an album. Funny how things change when you have money. Dr Dre, he ain't an angel, currently being sued by george lucas for using lucas's trademark thx in an album without permission. See everyone is dirty, normal users for not paying for music and downloading things without permission, record companies for cd price fixing, artist for violations...........where does it all end....no one in this whole issue seems to be an angel. All this while record companies are making record profits and still complaining that mp3 file sharing is wrecking their profits. Ppl it is quite simply about greed, artists who have much and wanting more and not remembering that they bent the rules.

Livesets so kick ass. I didn't know they were illegal though.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert When did the scene get stagnate?

oh jeez, and this is only a personal opinion. prolly before summer of 2001. it was just like it is now, only 800x more community. ive seen so many peeps up and bounce since then - tis aiight tho. late/

I think the scene is still alive, it's just always been a bigger thing in Europe and Canada then in the states.

I think file swapping is a god send. Not just because I now get free music online but because its gives music more of an exposure. Independent artists or newbies or anyone else in the music industry for that matter can have their stuff circulated more widely and quickly with file sharing. I have paid far too much for CD's in which I end up only liking one freaking song on it. Sometimes its good to be able to sample the music before making a purchase.

Ironic,isn't it?All the commercial artists,who already make millions of bucks,are those who bitch and moan the most about their music getting "stolen".While the djs,small artists and producers really don't give a shit whether they're tracks are downloaded illegally or not.In fact,some of them actually feel HONORED if somebody chooses to dl just THEIR track.Interesting fact...

Anyway,there are significant ups and downs to filesharing.Of course its annoying too see your track getting dl'ed 30 times,only to think
that"there goes that money out of the window." Now,if you're a small artists in the start phase of your career,you could really use that money,and then it's understandably frustrating.But hello,when you already make loads of money,it's not like you're in big trouble economically!So why bitch and moan?Besides,I wonder if some of the big artists ever CONSIDERED the fact that file-swapping is one hell of a tool for promoting your music!If they just went on and put up a track or two on some webpage(maybe their own),they could probably increase their income significantly.No wonder Offspring wanted to throw some of their tracks out on Napster before the release of the album!Of course when we always have those who rip whole albums,it would always be easier and cheaper to dl the whole album yourself.But the fact is that a significant number of those why buy records aren't necessarily involved in file-swappping at all!In addition to that,many people(like myself)prefer to have the original package that comes with the cd when you buy it.That could also contribute to increasing the artists income.So my advice to all the artistd and producers out there has to be:instead of suing the file-swapping programs(which is pointless,since you can't stop them anyway),try using them to your adavantage!The possibilities are huge,just think for yourself!


In Norway,it has been suggested that we initiate some kind of addition to the price on cd-burners and blank cds.The income from this addition will then be distributed among the various labels(preferably the small ones,since they're the ones that are gonna need it)that could have suffered losses economically.What do you people think of that idea?There are certain problems of course,but could this be a good way to give something back to those who lose money on illegal dl'ing?

The debate continues...

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper ... In Norway,it has been suggested that we initiate some kind of addition to the price on cd-burners and blank cds.The income from this addition will then be distributed among the various labels(preferably the small ones,since they're the ones that are gonna need it)that could have suffered losses economically.What do you people think of that idea?There are certain problems of course,but could this be a good way to give something back to those who lose money on illegal dl'ing? The debate continues...

well one thing i find interesting about you saying this is - while i was in Sweden i noticed that the family i stayed with had a DVD burner. that amazed me, because here my family would just as soon NOT have a dvd player, rather than spending the money to copy them via an 800 dollar drive. it was obviously a money saving issue, and that plan could quell things in Scandinavia, but it seems like it would have little relevance here...possibly tho...late/

I thought most DVD-Burners couldn't copy DVD's because of the copyright protection on the retail DVD's?

Is there a crack out already?

i think the main source is from pirated DVDs out of Hong Kong or something...youd have to ask someone who had a burner tho/

I know I read about some guy getting prosecuted for breaking the DVD Copyright Code, but I'm not sure if like any general consumer could pull it off.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert I know I read about some guy getting prosecuted for breaking the DVD Copyright Code, but I'm not sure if like any general consumer could pull it off.

then again its only a matter of time...no code is unbreakable. plus all it takes is one crack group and the internet - and booyah there goes the neighborhood! late/

I doubt DVD copying will be very big for quite some time. At least 3-5 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert I doubt DVD copying will be very big for quite some time. At least 3-5 years.

well regardless, thats not even my point. it goes beyond that - the RIAA says it will support selling music via the internet if it has a controllable medium, like a new mp3. even if they could somehow gain control over a medium like this, there will always be another way of sharing, a new way to encode media. unless the major labels and companies dont start working WITH the system instead of trying to gain control over it - they fight a losing battle. (just like the drug war!) heh/

Very true.

Just like the MPAA tried to crush the VCR.

Didn't work out like they planned

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert Livesets so kick ass. I didn't know they were illegal though.

Live mixes are NOT illegal! Why not? Most are just recordings from the radio and there's no money being lost PLUS, the artist already made his/her money through promotions, prople paying for tickets to go there, etc. And the radio stations also made the money to pay for the broadcast through adverts. Everyone already MADE their money by the time it's out on the 'Net...

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