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basic mixing question

newb question -- is there a fundamental difference between top down/bottom up mixing? i usually mix some bass first, follow with mid-range on the next phrase and then treble one phrase later, then gradually work them over to the new track. but some tracks (eg. solar stone's seven cities) i find clash if mixed this way and sound better mixed into another track starting with the treble.

does this make any sense, and are there hard and fast rules about this?

cheers

Re: basic mixing question

quote:

Originally posted by carreux newb question -- is there a fundamental difference between top down/bottom up mixing? i usually mix some bass first, follow with mid-range on the next phrase and then treble one phrase later, then gradually work them over to the new track. but some tracks (eg. solar stone's seven cities) i find clash if mixed this way and sound better mixed into another track starting with the treble. does this make any sense, and are there hard and fast rules about this? cheers

Well, I do have a general thing I do for mixing, but it all depends upon tune. Knowing your tune means you'll know what you think will work when it is time to mix in. Just listen for the flow and adjust as necessary.

Ok. that makes little sense but a lot of mixing for me is intuitive as it depends on each tune.

Everything depends on the songs you'll mix in but often i'll have the bass of the incoming track turned down a third. And i'll have the highs turned down a wee bit as well.

After that, i'll start bring the new tune in more and more, gradually increasing the bass slightly while decreasing the bass of the outgoing track. Slightly tweaking the incoming highs (making sure there isn't a bad overlap of the highs)..

Eventually the incoming tune will be on full bass (12 o'clock) and the outgoing track will only be faint, in the background..

If i want the melody of the outgoing track to last a little longer i'll sometimes boost the mids so people can still here it fading away in the background..

Just one of the methods i use. Not the best, but it works for me. And i think that's what it's all about

nelly

just going to reinforce whats already been said...know your tracks!

Sounds about right m8 though there's no hard & fast rules. If the incoming track has a strong melody I normally reduce the mids on it as I bring the fader up so as not to clash with the outgoing track.

Every mix is different. Listen to the monitors. Think to yourself what does this mix need and then do it. Most of the time if you really pick your tracks right you won't have to make any big EQ adjustments.

every mix should be unique from the others in your set. every combination of tracks can be mixed an infinite different ways. its all about how they work with each other.

rule #1: Don't smoke Crack!!!
rule #2: Know your tracks!!!

It depends on the track. Some tracks have really heavy bass and if your mixing one track with a lighter bass (lows) and one with a heavier one...you should cut the bass then and gradually bring it in, by either cutting it via isolators or kill switches, or just turning the lows down and gradually bringing it in if your mixing doesn't have those (they are pretty old hat nowadays). When I mix, I try to go upwards in bass instead of putting one track with very low bass to one with heavier bass..unless I really have to, then I just use the isolators or I just turn the lows down and gradually bring it in. I still run into problems though, like when I don't know my tunes really well. When the bass clashes in tracks, it sounds really bad...just ask Tiesto, ATB or George Acosta...haha . So the other guys have a very good point...know your tunes.

quote:

Originally posted by Vero every mix should be unique from the others in your set. every combination of tracks can be mixed an infinite different ways. its all about how they work with each other.

That's basically all there is to it, really.

Basically due to the way that musical frequencies work together you would be better off starting with the high and working in the low.

Bass frequencies have their general body around 63hz to about 250hz in the case of kick and lower bass line.
In a track, if it does have a distinctive sound it's not usually that region that makes the sound stand out in your ears but a combination of that and a higher frequency range which actually gives it the character that you recognise.

If you start off by mixing the low freq you will in effect be mixing something that is inaudiable to the listener especially in a club situation. On a standard mixer the higher frequencies are more open to creativity than the low stuff.

You also have to be careful how you use the mid as this can give some strange colouration to the overall sound.

If you are going to mess around with mixing low freqs first you are better off using filters with resonance applied as the effect is far more dramatic.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Cheers
Nem

I agree. I usually start hi to low as well.

I don't understand why people dont seem to work the mids that much. They are usually great for avoiding clashing melodies when the tracks aren't in key etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy H I don't understand why people dont seem to work the mids that much. They are usually great for avoiding clashing melodies when the tracks aren't in key etc.

thats pretty much all their good for though...bringing melodies in and out.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy H I don't understand why people dont seem to work the mids that much. They are usually great for avoiding clashing melodies when the tracks aren't in key etc.

Just have to be carefull using them because they are the life of the track, i mainly use the gain, faders, and lows to mix.. sometimes ill cut the highs a tiny bit if they're clashing.

quote:

Originally posted by SPAWNmaster thats pretty much all their good for though...bringing melodies in and out.

Yeah, but like he said, if the melodies clash then you dont really want them riding together. It's better to keep the incoming track's melody low and just swapping them when you are ready like you would with the bass. If done correctly you can still make it a sick/smooth transition.

LOL I can't remember ever touching the hi EQ's when mixing. I'm a freak!!

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Just have to be carefull using them because they are the life of the track, i mainly use the gain, faders, and lows to mix.. sometimes ill cut the highs a tiny bit if they're clashing.

True. But it's rare for me to do change track without touching the mids.. But i've noticed that the way I work the EQs, i would probably be better off with a rotary mixer At least when mixing trance or house..

If the melodies clash don't mix those songs together. Dhurrrr!

I start off by SLOWLY turning the lows down on the track that is playing thru the main speakers, then bring in the cued up track, get it to where I can hear it thru the booth speakers, then depending on how muck different the lows are between the 2 tracks, slowly swap the lows. I try to start the new track off during the breakdown of the track that is playing on the system. That way I don't have to do much adjusting with the mids and the highs. I do a little adjusting with them but not much. Starting your cued up track off during the begining of the breakdown of the track that is playing on the speakers lets the track that your bringing in build while the other one is breaking down. Sounds really cool, and keeps the energy up. But, depending on the track itself, (like some people already said here) it really depends. Sometimes I have to do a quick swap with the lows, or the whole track itself. Like they said, you HAVE to know your music. You HAVE to have a good track selection. You HAVE to keep the energy up.

Rock On,

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Zild If the melodies clash don't mix those songs together. Dhurrrr!

Sure, but sometimes the tracks are in key, but there's some kind of annoying element in the track that you want to temporarly get rid of. Sometimes even vocals.. Adjusting the mids gives you more freedom imo

quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy H Sure, but sometimes the tracks are in key, but there's some kind of annoying element in the track that you want to temporarly get rid of. Sometimes even vocals.. Adjusting the mids gives you more freedom imo

Could be an accidental element or something to do with the actual scale that's being used.
But if you are getting that much interferance from a melody you are probably not mixing at a particullarly well chosed spot. It becomes more a crow bar style mix.
Can still be very effective so not to be taken out of the repetoire.

Melodies on top of each other don't very often sound good, unless you know which frequency range they occupy. As a producer you may decide to create frequency gaps for them, sort it out with a compressor or use panning. As a DJ you don't have this luxury.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy H Sure, but sometimes the tracks are in key, but there's some kind of annoying element in the track that you want to temporarly get rid of. Sometimes even vocals.. Adjusting the mids gives you more freedom imo

True but I find if you pick your tracks properly that you almost never need to use the mids.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Could be an accidental element or something to do with the actual scale that's being used. But if you are getting that much interferance from a melody you are probably not mixing at a particullarly well chosed spot. It becomes more a crow bar style mix. Can still be very effective so not to be taken out of the repetoire. Melodies on top of each other don't very often sound good, unless you know which frequency range they occupy. As a producer you may decide to create frequency gaps for them, sort it out with a compressor or use panning. As a DJ you don't have this luxury. Cheers Nem

I totally agree
It's just nice to have that freedom too. It can sound really nice to just brind in the high or low of a track before the mid etc, just to variate your style. But like i wrote before, I've noticed that I often use the EQs like a rotary mixer when doing long smooth mixes.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy H I totally agree It's just nice to have that freedom too. It can sound really nice to just brind in the high or low of a track before the mid etc, just to variate your style. But like i wrote before, I've noticed that I often use the EQs like a rotary mixer when doing long smooth mixes.

thats similiar to my style as well...eq's just serve so well for the longer blends or for mashups etc etc

thanks for the advice everyone.

don't know if anyone has that particular track (7 cities) but it's got a very distinctive bass-line that seems to drive the whole melody. the way i mix at the moment is to bring in the incoming track at minimal level and slowly switch it over starting with the bass to sort of give the new track a "foundation" to build the melody up. guess being flexible is a big part of DJ-ing huh. i'll work harder on it.

cheers,

carreux.

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