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What's harder to Mix? Hip-Hop/RnB or EDM

WHat is inovlved in mixing Hip-Hop?

What is invovled in mixing EDM?

WHich skills are harder to learn?

WHy do you think Genre you voted for is harder to mix?

This isn't a poll about which DJs are better (hip hop, or EDM), but a poll about which GENRE, is harder to mix...

the focus is particularily on trance, in the EDM genre.

IT'd be great if you could give reasons why u made the vote you did...

the reality is, as a EDM DJ, many of us are likely to see hip-hop as difficult, as it's something we haven't devoted much time to, and havnet 'gotten used to yet. THat's why i wish to generate an intelligent discussion on the topic...

Think about it.... when u first started using a mixer... or first started beatmatching... it seemed so complicated didn't it? Well similarily, now that you've gotten used to mixing EDM, you mightn't appreciate the diffuculties involved, and when you try out Hip-Hop/RnB it may seem hard....

here's how easy it is to mix hip hop...

play track 1 then mix in track 2(instrimental version) at the beginning of the chorus(usually the second chorus) then at the end of track 1 chorus cut to track 2(instrimental version). Then mix in track 2(vocal version). thats it.


/\ its as simple as that. hip hop chorus' are only a few bars so you're only mixing for a few seconds with makes it super easy to beatmatch. You don't have to know your records the way you do with e.d.m. cuz theres no big breaks, buildups, etc... just verse, chorus, verse, chorus, verse, chorus.

e.d.m. is way more challenging and fun and there's a lot more room for creativity.

quote:

Originally posted by Stealth here's how easy it is to mix hip hop... play track 1 then mix in track 2(instrimental version) at the beginning of the chorus(usually the second chorus) then cut to track 2(instrimental version) at the end of track 1 chorus. Then mix in track 2(vocal version). thats it.

If it only was that easy

Then an argument can be made for mixing EDM. Just beatmatch, cue, and bring in the incoming song. That's it.

What you are saying is the the basics of Hip Hop mixing without being creative. Don't get me wrong, I have been mixing EDM for about 6 years and Hip Hop / R&B for about 3. I luv both genre's and won't diss a Hip Hop Dj vs an EDM Dj.

Mixing Trance without creativity can be boring as well, because then everyone will mix the same. When you said there is much more to edm like big breaks, buildups etc....hip hop has scratching, beat juggling, drops, etc.....

I see your point but, scratching, beat juggling, etc has to do more with turntablism than mixing hip hop. You can scratch, beat juggle, and do other turntablism tricks with e.d.m. too- just ask bad boy bill, dj craze, etc...

now if the question was 'which is harder hip hop, e.d.m., or turntablism' I would definately say turntablism.


even if we just use your simplistic argument for mixing e.d.m. "Just beatmatch, cue, and bring in the incoming song. That's it." you still have to beatmatch for a much longer time with e.d.m. therefore creating a better chance of drifting off beat.

also 99.9% of hip hop songs have the same format: verse, chorus, verse, etc... on the other hand e.d.m. tracks are much more complex and diverse in their formats which makes it more challenging to know when is the right time to start mixing in the next track.

quote:

Originally posted by Stealth also 99.9% of hip hop songs have the same format: verse, chorus, verse, etc... on the other hand e.d.m. tracks are much more complex and diverse in their formats which makes it more challenging to know when is the right time to start mixing in the next track.

To my best knowledge, all Trance songs (or just about all) follow the same format: Intro-->Body-->Break-->Climax-->Exit. Also since trance is a 4/4 beat (just like most hip hop) everything happens either 4, 16, 32..etc. By far I think that that hip hop/R&B tracks have more complex beats and more variations on the 4/4 beat.

If Hip Hop/ R&B tracks aren't as diverse as Trance, how come people never say that Hip Hop/R&B songs all sound the same?, and people that aren't as familiar with trance say all the they hear is boom boom boom and all songs are the same?

I hope I don't offend you in anyway, because I don't mean too , but i find that discussing this topic is very interesting. I don't wnat this to become a Hip Hop vs Trance war, but just to compare the 2 and how different or the same they are. I actually love trance and usually can't get enuff, but I have the same luv for R&B too!

But back to the topic of which is harder to mix...I find Hip Hop is, just because there is alot more vocals to deal with. I find that I use the sampler more, and doing seemless drops everytime is very tough as well....

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H By far I think that that hip hop/R&B tracks have more complex beats and more variations on the 4/4 beat. If Hip Hop/ R&B tracks aren't as diverse as Trance, how come people never say that Hip Hop/R&B songs all sound the same?,

WTF ??????

You sould listen to some hip hop instrimentals and see if you say the same thing. Hip hop beats are very simple beats some times just a few bars looped over and over..........


Why dont people say hip hop all sound the same?? because the raps/vocals are all different

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H To my best knowledge, all Trance songs (or just about all) follow the same format: Intro-->Body-->Break-->Climax-->Exit. Also since trance is a 4/4 beat (just like most hip hop) everything happens either 4, 16, 32..etc. By far I think that that hip hop/R&B tracks have more complex beats and more variations on the 4/4 beat. [/i][/b]

There are trance songs that have a format of Intro-->Body-->Break-->Climax-->Exit but the time(or bars) between those varies from track to track unlike hip hop which always(yes always) uses the same cookie-cutter format. Also there are many more variations in the format of trance songs like: Intro-->Break-->Body-->Break-->Climax-->Body-->Exit for example... on the other hand hip hop will always follow the same boring and predictable format therefore making it easier to mix.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H I hope I don't offend you in anyway, because I don't mean too , but i find that discussing this topic is very interesting. I don't wnat this to become a Hip Hop vs Trance war, but just to compare the 2 and how different or the same they are. I actually love trance and usually can't get enuff, but I have the same luv for R&B too![/i][/b]

Its all good bro, no offence taken. This is an interesting discusion.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H But back to the topic of which is harder to mix...I find Hip Hop is, just because there is alot more vocals to deal with. I find that I use the sampler more, and doing seemless drops everytime is very tough as well....[/i][/b]

How are vocals an issue for you? And what does that have to do with mixing hip hop(other than having to buy 2 of every song)? Also why do you use a sampler when you mix hip hop? Just curious.

Both genres have their differences of mixing. I think they would be equally as hard to learn how to mix.


Turntablism on the other hand is just jaw dropping and is probably the hardest thing to learn on turntables.

having actually been to an rnb club (relax, it was the only thing open on a wednesday night, i was on an epic bender and was too fucked up to realise where we were going) I don't have a huge amount of respect for rnb djs. The mixing was very basic, radio fade sorta stuff, no real need for beatmatching, no real harmonics either, there was nothing that made me think at ANY time of the night "this guy aint half bad". It was all basic, i'd suggest there was little skill involved. It takes a lot more skill to do a 2 minute mix smoothly than a 2 second fade into a Missy Elliot track.

Not saying all rnb/hip hop djs are like that, i'm sure there are some out there with actual skill, but from my experience rnb only takes basic skill to master.

(disclaimer, memory may or may not be tarnished by alcohol)

I find it disapponting that in a trance forum most of the people mix hip hop and RnB rubbish.

The world is in a sorry state.



Jarv

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister I find it disapponting that in a trance forum most of the people mix hip hop and RnB rubbish. The world is in a sorry state. Jarv

I find it disappointing how ridiculously close minded some people are when it comes to music. These same people whine when nobody likes the music they like, yet are eager to diss everything they don't like.

For me, I'd think hiphop/rnb would be easier to mix since I find mixing slower stuff easier as I can hear the offbeats and differences in timing more easily. That might just be me, though.

I mix both the exact same amount. I have no personal preference for one above the other. But I can honestly, without hesitation, say that Hip-Hop is harder. The easiness of EDM mixing is one of the reasons I started mixing Hip-Hop. Not trying to say I'm an amazing EDM DJ, because I'm not, but it's pretty easy to beatmatch a "1-2-3-4" drum pattern. Making the mix sound good harmonically is a whole other thing, though. But when I say mixing Hip-Hop, I'm not talking about the standard cutting the tracks in with scratching like typical DJs do...I mean actual mixing of tracks, with close to 1-minute transitions.

But yeah, to answer the question, Hip-Hop is harder.

whatever you play is easier its about what your used to.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I find it disappointing how ridiculously close minded some people are when it comes to music. These same people whine when nobody likes the music they like, yet are eager to diss everything they don't like.

Eager would suggest this type of comment is frequent from me, to my knowledge this is the first time I've spoken about music I do not like, in this forum, for 5 years - hardly eager really is it!?!?
No. And I don't whine when no one likes my music, not sure what substantiates your accusation there.....?

My view: Hip Hop and RnB is rubbish, the scene is even more rubbish. Thats my view, which I'm pretty sure I'm entitled to.

Actually, I've read the question wrong anyway, I thought it said what do you mix? OK, i had far too many beers last night.

However, my views still stand regardless.

For the record I believe Hip Hop would be harder, at least for me, to mix, because I don't like it. I find that the love of the music drives me to mix better and better as I go.

Jarv

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister I find it disapponting that in a trance forum most of the people mix hip hop and RnB rubbish. The world is in a sorry state.

I'm not proud that I mixed hip hop and rnb crap for so many years... but the main reason I did it was to make extra money to buy more EDM records.

quote:

Originally posted by djkoolaide Not trying to say I'm an amazing EDM DJ, because I'm not, but it's pretty easy to beatmatch a "1-2-3-4" drum pattern.

I think everyone would agree here that mixing EDM involves a lot more than just "beatmatching a "1-2-3-4" drum pattern."

quote:

Originally posted by djkoolaide But when I say mixing Hip-Hop, I'm not talking about the standard cutting the tracks in with scratching like typical DJs do...

I'm sorry but that is absolutely not the standard. Every once in a while a hip hop DJ will do that but 99.9% of the time they just do the standard mixing during the chorus.

quote:

Originally posted by djkoolaide I mean actual mixing of tracks, with close to 1-minute transitions.

WTF??? 1-minute transitions?! I have heard thousands of different hip hop Djs(unfortunately) mixing at different clubs, radio stations, house parties, etc but I have never heard any hip hop DJ doing 1-minute transitions! Hip hop DJs keep transitions short(always during the chorus and never during the verses) because most hip hop/rnb tracks are musical and have melodies... just like you wouldn't mix the main body of one trance track to the main body of another trance track.

quote:

Originally posted by Stealth Its all good bro, no offence taken. This is an interesting discusion.

quote:

How are vocals an issue for you? And what does that have to do with mixing hip hop(other than having to buy 2 of every song)? Also why do you use a sampler when you mix hip hop? Just curious.

Well it's kinda like trance, when vocals clash it just sounds really bad, since there is alot of singing or rapping involved. What alot of people see is the basic short mixes in Hip / Hop, R&B. But when you can get a really good Dj that can keep 2 different R&B songs in sync for more than a minute or 2, and mix them as new remix or live mashup, that is what separtes the robotic R&B Dj, from a creative one.

As said b4 by someone, yes R&B beats are continuous looping, but isn't that same for trance? The basic beat structure of both genre still follows the same 4/4 beat rule. But the differnce is Trance probably has better breakdowns and build ups. But then R&B has the vocals that make up for the difference. You can't just listen to the instrumental version, and think that is what R&B is (then we won't need artists). You have to listen to the whole thing. It's kinda like listening to trance without the breakdowns. You just cannot compare that way. (trance without the breakdowns and build ups is a simple looping 4/4 beat)

I use the sampler alot to store beats, because R&B doesn't have the long intros that trance has, so what I do sometimes is have a beat looping in the sampler to extend the song a bit to help make bringing in the next song easier. Or I would load up some vocals and inject it throughout the set. Since I use Serato, I sometimes like record the audience and can play it back, even sometimes scratch the recording.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H Well it's kinda like trance, when vocals clash it just sounds really bad, since there is alot of singing or rapping involved. What alot of people see is the basic short mixes in Hip / Hop, R&B.

The vocals aren't supposed to clash thats why hip hop DJs use instrimentals.
If you mix hip hop the proper way you will see how easy this stuff really is to mix, especially compared to EDM!

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H But when you can get a really good Dj that can keep 2 different R&B songs in sync for more than a minute or 2, and mix them as new remix or live mashup, that is what separates the robotic R&B Dj, from a creative one.

Sorry but in all my years as a hip hop DJ I have never seen or heard anyone mix two rnb songs togather for 1 or 2 minutes. I've heard DJs mix an rnb instrimental with a rnb acappella of a different track... but I've also heard many more EDM DJs mix acappellas, so mixing acappellas shouldn't really have anything to do with debate of 'which is harder to mix'.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H As said b4 by someone, yes R&B beats are continuous looping, but isn't that same for trance? The basic beat structure of both genre still follows the same 4/4 beat rule. But the differnce is Trance probably has better breakdowns and build ups.

Trance "loops" are always evolving and changing unlike hip hop. Even when hip hop loops do change the songs always follow the same predictable cookie-cutter format. I think it would pretty obvious that trance and other genres of EDM are much more complex than hip hop (therefore making it more difficult to mix than hip hop).

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H But then R&B has the vocals that make up for the difference. You can't just listen to the instrumental version, and think that is what R&B is (then we won't need artists). You have to listen to the whole thing. It's kinda like listening to trance without the breakdowns. You just cannot compare that way. (trance without the breakdowns and build ups is a simple looping 4/4 beat)

Like I said before, vocals should not be an issue when mixing hip hop or rnb if you mix them the proper way.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H I use the sampler alot to store beats, because R&B doesn't have the long intros that trance has, so what I do sometimes is have a beat looping in the sampler to extend the song a bit to help make bringing in the next song easier.

Again, the length of intros should not be an issue if you are mixing hip hop or rnb the proper way. You don't need a sampler when mixing hip hop.






No offence to anyone, but I'm noticing a pattern here, the DJs that are saying hip hop is harder to mix don't really seem to know how to mix hip hop properly. They are making it a lot harder on themselves than its supposed be. If you mix hip hop the way its supposed to be mixed you will see how much easier it is compared to mixing EDM.

once again, this is how simple it is to mix hip hop:

play track 1, then begin to mix in track 2(instrimental version) at the beginning of the track 1 chorus(usually the second chorus), then at the end of track 1 chorus cut to track 2(instrimental version). Then mix in track 2(vocal version). thats it.

This is where you reverting back to to the basics again. What is proper?...the proper way?....it only sounds like you know only one way of mixing Hip Hop, and not being creative at all.

So that means that the "proper" way of mixing trance is wait till the last 32 bars of the trance song and overlap it with the first 32 bars of the incoming song. Isn't that the proper way to mix trance?...yes and no.....yes, meaning that the way trance is structured this would be the proper way to mix, no, meaning that there is no creativity.

I personally think there is no proper way to mix, and that what makes Dj's stand out from others. But don't get me wrong here, you still need the basic beatmatching skills (for all genre's, well...maybe except some downtempo ) to become a decent Dj.

About the Vocal thing, you don't always use intrumentals to mix songs, just because you know that as the "proper and only way" to mix. I try to stay away from that, I do understand that sometimes I do use intrumentals to mix, but I also like quick cuts. If you can use two TT's and mix a set that sounds like it was done in ableton without having the vocals clash and not JUST using intrumentals to mix is a very tough thing to accomplish. I admit my my skills may not be that great when it comes to seemless drops and cuts. But when you hear a "non-proper" dj do his mix maybe you will understand that sometime there are actually really talented R&B Dj's.

But like trance, R&B has too MANY Dj's think that are the best. And just mix everything like how everyone else mixes. I've seen Trance Dj's that just stand there, beatmatch for about 32 bars and then mix, flip the bass on the eq, repeat and Bob's ur uncle.

But in short, I guess this can be a never ending discussion because there is just to many ways to mix....but I still believe in the fact that there is no proper way to mix.

I voted for the same because I mix both and I don't see much of a difference just different styles. Hip hop songs are shorter mixes are shorter, edm songs are longer mixes are longer.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H This is where you reverting back to to the basics again. What is proper?...the proper way?....it only sounds like you know only one way of mixing Hip Hop, and not being creative at all.

Thats because there really is only one way that 99.9% of hip hop DJs mix! I know its hard to grasp looking at it from an EDM perpective where we are used to lots of diversity in the music and the way DJs mix, but the fact is everywhere where you hear hip hop DJs mix; the radio, clubs, etc they all mix the same way. What sets them apart is when they scratch and do turtablism tricks. But like I said before, the question wasn't "whats easier: hip hop, EDM, or turtablism".

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H So that means that the "proper" way of mixing trance is wait till the last 32 bars of the trance song and overlap it with the first 32 bars of the incoming song. Isn't that the proper way to mix trance?...yes and no.....yes, meaning that the way trance is structured this would be the proper way to mix, no, meaning that there is no creativity.

Trance songs are so diverse that you can't follow a '32 bar rule'... on the other hand every hip hop song always has the same predictable 4 bar chorus and 99% of the verses have the same predictable number of bars(threfore making it easier to mix than edm). There really is no "proper" way of mixing EDM because the music is so much more complex and diverse than hip hop.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Ricky H I personally think there is no proper way to mix, and that what makes Dj's stand out from others. But don't get me wrong here, you still need the basic beatmatching skills (for all genre's, well...maybe except some downtempo ) to become a decent Dj. About the Vocal thing, you don't always use intrumentals to mix songs, just because you know that as the "proper and only way" to mix. I try to stay away from that, I do understand that sometimes I do use intrumentals to mix, but I also like quick cuts. If you can use two TT's and mix a set that sounds like it was done in ableton without having the vocals clash and not JUST using intrumentals to mix is a very tough thing to accomplish. I admit my my skills may not be that great when it comes to seemless drops and cuts. But when you hear a "non-proper" dj do his mix maybe you will understand that sometime there are actually really talented R&B Dj's. But like trance, R&B has too MANY Dj's think that are the best. And just mix everything like how everyone else mixes. I've seen Trance Dj's that just stand there, beatmatch for about 32 bars and then mix, flip the bass on the eq, repeat and Bob's ur uncle. But in short, I guess this can be a never ending discussion because there is just to many ways to mix....but I still believe in the fact that there is no proper way to mix.

The real problem here is you're basing your argument that 'mixing hip hop is harder than EDM' on the way that maybe .01% of all hip hop DJs actually mix! It would be like me trying to convince you that "EDM is harder to mix because you have to do super quick mixes switching out records every 30seconds". How ridiculous would that be? When in all reality we know that only maybe .01%(if that) of EDM DJs actually mix that way. That is why your argument is flawed, it doesn't represent the way 99.9% of hip hop DJs mix(aka the "proper" way). Hip hop maybe personally harder for you to mix than EDM, but thats only because you're making it waaaay harder on yourself than it is for the average hip hop DJ.

can someone post a dj set of rap? i want to know what it sounds like.

I am not making it much harder on myself to mix R&B. I just want to be more ceative and not do the norm. What you are always coming back to is jsut the basics of mixing. If we break it down beat for beat, you are right, I think that mixing R&B is harder than EDM. I guess I am being to creative and not just getting down to flipping the x-fader (which apperantly that's what everyone here thinks a hip hop Dj does). Also, what makes trance songs more diverse than R&B? or vise versa? Just because trance focuses more on beats and high hats and stuff like that makes it more diverse (but isn't that's what trance tracks are built upon)? I guess you are just a beat junkie then and I can see where you are coming from. Why not try to mix R&B without the instrumentals and try to make it sound good, with good flow. But then again, I guess we are just talking about the basics of mixing, and which is harder to mix.

So what I get here is that we are comparing like old school System F track, to just and R&B intrumental. Than yes, I would say the System F is more complex and most likely harder to mix. But is that really a fair comparison? Mixing R&B/Hip Hop, is not all about just mixing beats. I think where we are different here is that I include turntablism into R&B mixing, as what I get from you is that there is 3 separate sections. R&B/Hip Hop mixing, EDM Mixing, and Turntablism.

I don't understand the point where you say that Trance does not follow a set format? All trance songs follow the same format (well most). If it didn't, I can't see people making 2-4 min mixes. Everything happends on beat, and you can predict when changes happen. How can you predict that?, because trance follows a basic format. Yes the beats might sound more diverse, but the beats still follow the same thing. I could argure that you are trying to mix trance harder than you should.

Is it not true that when you mix trance that you know that there will be a big change 16 or 32..etc...bars in the song? And every trance song follows that rule of thumb. It's because you know that, so you can make ur mixes more smooth.

But I see your point as this is going in cirles...but I have to admit it is pretty entertaining!!! (in a sense that we are discussing this in a mature way, and open about other genre's) But then again comes my point....everyone mixes different, and everyone thinks differently about things...

But to be blunt Hip Hop is winning in the poll!!... (that was just a cheap shot!..just for fun!)

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