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music theory - bassline

I was not trained in music theory but over the years have learned what it is and how it is used..but I have one questions for you guys that know alot of theory. Lets say the music part or melody is in C Major (easiest for example) so that means you can use the white notes for the melody (basically). Now i used to think that the start of the bassline would be in C but now im realizing that I am missing something. A friend of mine told me that is wrong and it does not have to be in C and that sometimes the bassline and melody is different. I have seen in some midi's that some melodies might look like they are in C Major scale but then the bassline does not start in C....Hopefully this makes sense to you music theory genius' and you can hopefully help me understand this.........thanks.

id like to hear the answers to this one, and also... how do you take a sample and adjust it to the key you want? I have some tr-909 samples, but even with something i record with a mic or generate in software... how do I adjust it to the key I want?

im hardly an expert on theory but im pretty sure this is correct

as long as the bassline stays in C Major. it doesnt matter which notes you use or start with.

I think you would hear if it didnt work anyway. so give it a try

quote:

Originally posted by ClearVision id like to hear the answers to this one, and also... how do you take a sample and adjust it to the key you want? I have some tr-909 samples, but even with something i record with a mic or generate in software... how do I adjust it to the key I want?

use the tuning control on your sampler

just tune up and down until it sounds right. you'll know when you hear it trust me

cool

Are you asking whether the bassline should start on C itself? If so, that's entirely up to you. As long as you stay in key and write a bassline that progresses in a catchy or pleasing way and "fits" with the melody (meaning it doesn't sound like you just made a random melody and random bassline and stuck them together), you should be fine.

In a lot of music, the bassline will often either start or end on the root note of the key that the song is in. Makes it easier to get "resolution."

quote:

Originally posted by ClearVision id like to hear the answers to this one, and also... how do you take a sample and adjust it to the key you want? I have some tr-909 samples, but even with something i record with a mic or generate in software... how do I adjust it to the key I want?

Antares do a plug in that can shift the note of samples - it;s great for vocals but can also be used for all other samples as well....

Key signature has nothing to do with what note a musical line starts or ends on, be it a bassline or any other part.

However, the chord you start/end on means a whole lot in terms of the music's perceived flow. This why it helps to learn about harmony and cadences, and I'm afraid the topic is a little too large for me to cover in a single post.

Here is an example that happens alot in trance. Let's say the trance tune is in A minor. You go ahead and write you meldoy using the noes in a A minor scale and go to put the bassline (yes i know you usually write around the bassline , but you dont have to). So you lay an A note for the bassline and most times it will sound stupid. If you notice alot of times trance tunes will use the other notes of a triad for the bassline instead of the A note.....like maybe a C or E. Is there some formula to this?

..like sometimes if the sound your using sounds lame in the A note like its to high or something ...sometimes i guess they lower it a bit? but then your leaving the scale sometimes...?

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Originally posted by Emperor Here is an example that happens alot in trance. Let's say the trance tune is in A minor. You go ahead and write you meldoy using the noes in a A minor scale and go to put the bassline (yes i know you usually write around the bassline , but you dont have to). So you lay an A note for the bassline and most times it will sound stupid. If you notice alot of times trance tunes will use the other notes of a triad for the bassline instead of the A note.....like maybe a C or E. Is there some formula to this?

With this example, if you write your melody in A minor, and lay an A note for the bassline, that should sound 'correct' but it will also sound boring. Well not boring, but it's the root note and you're not really doing anything special with chords. However it is probably a good way to start the song off because you anchor the key down and without any nice progression you'll be building up tension instead. In this case, your melody will want to be adding the colour and tension - still using the A minor scale, but perhaps staying away from the root triad notes (A,D,F) where possible - for example G and B are good tension building notes (it's more complicated than this but there's a quick example).

What loads of trance tracks do is play the main melody (or parts thereof) over this anchor bassline to start with, and then later change the bassline notes while keeping the melody the same (or similar). The change in bass alters what chord is playing. This allows you to keep the repetition of the melody, yet sound varied because the mood is changing. This mood change after a tense build is what a lot of people like about trance in particular methinks.

pho mo ( and others) i think i explained it wrong. it is hard to explain on the computer. ok Lets say its in A Minor....the melody is in a minor....but alot of trance tunes do not start the basslines in A....they will start in D or F...(parts of the triad) because if you start in A that A might sound to high...or to low...so for example if it is to high they will use F from one octave lower.....So it's hard to see what scale it is in at first glance...the bassline might go f f f f a a a a d d d d d d d d..

quote:

Originally posted by Emperor pho mo ( and others) i think i explained it wrong. it is hard to explain on the computer. ok Lets say its in A Minor....the melody is in a minor....but alot of trance tunes do not start the basslines in A....they will start in D or F...(parts of the triad) because if you start in A that A might sound to high...or to low...so for example if it is to high they will use F from one octave lower.....So it's hard to see what scale it is in at first glance...the bassline might go f f f f a a a a d d d d d d d d..

i think you're thinking about the key wrong. that's not a key change it's just changing octaves and the order of the notes in the scale...

if your track is in A Minor you can play A, B, C, D, E, F, G# in any order you want and still be consistant with the key. you don't necessarily have to start your bassline on the route note of the scale.

basically what diginut said...

ok let me explain better..In this example lets use the scale of C Major ..(so just white keys)

Now i know the bassline does not have to start with C...

Now lets say the melody is done and uses all white keys...Now sometimes youd write the bassline like c c c c c c c c e e e e e e e e . All of a sudden you notice it sounds to high so you transpose the whole bassline down...so now it is g g g g g g g g b b b b b b b b........Now you see this in trance quite alot. Now the bassline fits. Is there some explaination or name as to why you can do this?......the whoel bassline was just transposed down to make it lower...but its still C major

Modulating to the 5th is common in classical and classica-derived music such as Trance, but mostly what you're probably hearing isn't even a modulation, it's just a I-V progression, and the producer couldn't be bothered to write another bassline so he just transposed the original one (I'd argue that a bassline of 8 C's followed by 8 E's is hella boring to begin with).

Anyway, we already answered your question about key. I don't think you're going to fully understand until you learn about chords and progressions. I'm not trying to be condescending, it's just that I've heard a lot of these types of questions before and they're always the result of piecemeal knowledge about music theory - a subject which is very ill-suited to the "just-in-time" learning that tends to work fine for most computer apps.

Emperor - I sort of understand what you are asking. I think ive asked this question before and pretty much got the same responses. They are all good and informative. You arent going to get a direct hit on your question. this is what i think you are trying to ask is. If you are in the key of lets say Amaj. and your playing a bass line note of Amaj (key). a a a a. sometimes its sounds to high pitch in the ocatve of even 1. So your saying transpose down or up whatever. To be honest with you. Piano is like a science. But your ears are your best best best best bet. If it sounds good to you. then it must be good. Trust yourself to know whats sounds good and what doesnt. Also try using one of those Scale Chord website things. Virtual Piano things like http://nfo.net/MFILE/ to let you know whats what in what. If this helped you think in another view then im glad. if not then you can go F**K yourself. LOL!

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Originally posted by Head Grit I think you would hear if it didnt work anyway. so give it a try

+1

quite quickly

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