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the future
I have been using live for some gigs recently, and I have noticed that when I play a track I really like, though I could easily load it with effects, cut it up, mash it with another track in the same key with the press of a button, etc, etc, sometimes I decide not to because I have such an affinity for the produced sound and a respect for the producer.
That makes me wonder - does live change the entire concept of a track, of the "song"? In the near future, will labels/artists be selling elements of tracks separately for use in ableton live with real time remixing and production?
Is the era of the complete, standalone track in the DJ world ending?
They already do sell it. DJ Tools. If the standalone era of tracks ended then it essentially wouldn't be called DJ's/DJ'ing, more like "producing" live.
most edm download sites including beatport already sell acapellas and instrumentals for a lot of tracks...a good example of how far into this sort of thing your talking about adam, is politics of dancing 2...pvd produced the entire thing using the original files for all the productions on that album which is why most of the tracks have pvd re-edits that you can buy off the vonyc shop. my question is, since we're talking about the future what's the future of dj'ing/production going to be like in say 20 years! can't even fathom...
Well if you really respected it, you'd play the whole thing out. Even mixing it is technically destroying the "purity" of the track. I don't see the problem- recontextualising and even altering tracks is what DJing is about.
yeah you got me, i guess i really don't respect them, doc 
this brings me to my new point. DJing is destruction.
don't get me wrong, I love deconstructing music and putting it back together in an original way. If I didn't do that I wouldn't call myself a DJ.
But that's not really what the point of the thread is about. It's about whether ableton live will change the way producers produce. And I'm not even talking about the way websites sell tracks, I'm talking about whether producers, with the knowledge that their tracks may be cut up and used in elemental form by Live 'DJs', will produce tracks in such a way that reacts to this. I'm asking if there has or will be a shift in the outlook of producers that we are noticing.
Actually I think ironically tracks are getting more and more "put together" and complex while at the same time DJs are starting to take them apart more and more, which is kind of funny.
at some point in the future they will definitely start to sell elements of tracks as well...
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| Originally posted by Floorfiller at some point in the future they will definitely start to sell elements of tracks as well... |
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| Originally posted by idoru I'm actually surprised that it's not already being done. |
i wonder what francis grasso and david mancuso would have to say about this lol
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| Originally posted by idoru I'm actually surprised that it's not already being done. |
Hes referring to selling individual samples of each song, such as each synth seperated, a few beats, and lead ins... becoming the norm. There are so much more than acappellas and tools, and rarely do people release more than that.
I don't know if selling separate parts of tracks will succeed. If you look at the number of people that dj, either with Ableton or vinyl/cd's, only few are really messing around with re-editing or even producing a track. When I speak for myself I'd rather play the producers track than editing/remixing different parts to make a complete new one. That's way too much work plus you'd have to learn the basics of producing.
I don't think the majority of dj's is waiting to become a producer. Either live or in the studio.
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| Originally posted by Djeebie I don't know if selling separate parts of tracks will succeed. If you look at the number of people that dj, either with Ableton or vinyl/cd's, only few are really messing around with re-editing or even producing a track. When I speak for myself I'd rather play the producers track than editing/remixing different parts to make a complete new one. That's way too much work plus you'd have to learn the basics of producing. I don't think the majority of dj's is waiting to become a producer. Either live or in the studio. |
"I'm hoping toward a future when there is a continuity between programs, where everyone is using some kind of new format like Wave, Aiff or MP3, but that has more parts and elements that are available to DJ, listener or remixer, that are available in that delivery method. Instead of an Aiff file, there would be an encapsulated file that would contain the samples, sounds and MIDI structure. The playback device would play it back as the composer or producer had envisioned, but if you wanted, all the components would be there for you to remix and manipulate on the fly. Each song would be an encapsulated Ableton file, or an encapsulated file that gave you all the bits and pieces created, so you could freely move around. That would be the future of singles. The idea of releasing an album or a single, and releasing it in a format that is indestructible other than for sampling purposes, is a little bit archaic. I think these things should be much more free, and open to reinterpretation and remixing." - Richie Hawtin
If this were to ever happen, I would be the first person on board. I think something like this is at least 10 years away, but inevitable. The DJ tools that exist currently are not quite usefull in a total sense yet, and the software isnt totally there yet either (but getting damn close). As far as copyrighting goes, as electronic music becomes less and less profitable i think people will no longer see the need in it. as it stands it costs about $70 to copyright a track and the typical digital release only makes about $200, not really condusive to go through all the measures to copyright is it? i dont know very many producers that do it anymore, and not really seeing anyone stealing someones tracks and releasing it on other labels.
Alot of times I dont tend to mess with the original song either when using ableton, but thats because i dont have access to the different layers of the song, i may just want to filter the synth line, but am forced to filter the ENTIRE song instead, which usually sounds like shit. I do however, mess with the length of tracks and force my bassline starts to happen when i want them to and cut out excessive breakdowns if they arent needed at that time.
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| Originally posted by Blake_Jarrell "I'm hoping toward a future when there is a continuity between programs, where everyone is using some kind of new format like Wave, Aiff or MP3, but that has more parts and elements that are available to DJ, listener or remixer, that are available in that delivery method. Instead of an Aiff file, there would be an encapsulated file that would contain the samples, sounds and MIDI structure. The playback device would play it back as the composer or producer had envisioned, but if you wanted, all the components would be there for you to remix and manipulate on the fly. Each song would be an encapsulated Ableton file, or an encapsulated file that gave you all the bits and pieces created, so you could freely move around. That would be the future of singles. The idea of releasing an album or a single, and releasing it in a format that is indestructible other than for sampling purposes, is a little bit archaic. I think these things should be much more free, and open to reinterpretation and remixing." - Richie Hawtin |
Wow that Hawtin quote is pretty much exactly what I was getting at.
My concern is that there is a sort of stardom or ego of the producer that would prevent this from happening, because everyone wants to make that sick track and be known for it, but who wants to be an unknown bassline modulation in richie hawtin's 2 hour mix? Is production going to be a good or a service? Right now emphasis is on the consumer good, the produced masterwork that is (supposed to be) carefully mixed and mastered. With the way the world is going, decentralized and globalized in almost every aspect, one wonders what would happen to quality of production if not everyone had to worry about mixing and mastering a complete, finished track. I think the ideal is that people still release a full track, but along with its elements, and perhaps they also produce variations on the elements, so that a "track" is essentially only whole as a collection of variations on a theme...
i might have to look into this more
on a related note
digital art went to shit as soon as photoshop became mass-market.
Are they going to make an Ableton LE that comes installed with Gateways now?
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| Originally posted by Blake_Jarrell "I'm hoping toward a future when there is a continuity between programs, where everyone is using some kind of new format like Wave, Aiff or MP3, but that has more parts and elements that are available to DJ, listener or remixer, that are available in that delivery method. Instead of an Aiff file, there would be an encapsulated file that would contain the samples, sounds and MIDI structure. The playback device would play it back as the composer or producer had envisioned, but if you wanted, all the components would be there for you to remix and manipulate on the fly. Each song would be an encapsulated Ableton file, or an encapsulated file that gave you all the bits and pieces created |
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| Originally posted by KilldaDJ |
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| Originally posted by Blake_Jarrell holy shit what is that |
and 1
Beatport tracks with .asd files would be a nice start! 
I'm lazy...
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| Originally posted by Clovis Beatport tracks with .asd files would be a nice start! I'm lazy... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Clovis Beatport tracks with .asd files would be a nice start! I'm lazy... |
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| Originally posted by RJT At least you actually grasp HOW to warp tunes... Fuck me, I feel like the worlds biggest jackass every time I open Ableton... |
abletonlivedj.com
they have tutorials for anyone who has trouble warping...once you get it you'll realise just how easy it is.
going back to the topic though...
like nefardec mentioned, the world is very globalized and decentralized at the moment...production and dj technology is cheaper and more available than its ever been...its not rocket science to create remixes anymore and you dont have to go down to a studio to record a synth arp for sound fx etc. what im getting at is that everyone and their brother is a remixer/producer and so what im seeing in the future is that everyone will be able to contribute in some way with some sort of mix or parameter and it wont matter who did what or wants royalties or whatever because music is common to us all anyways, regardless of technology. what im saying is it's entirely possible 10, 20, 50 years from now that 10,000 people might play a live show from various parts of the globe and everyone contributing live as the mix unfolds...i mean as the years go on i feel like things are getting crazier and more complex yet easier at the same time (im talking about technology btw) so perhaps we may not even have audio file formats as we know them 10 years from now, who knows!
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| Originally posted by Clovis Beatport tracks with .asd files would be a nice start! |
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