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Redlining/peaking

...my new #1 enemy. I absolutely hate it. Theres a reason mixers have EQ lights with a GREEN and RED area...and that reason is pretty clear.

Keep everything in the green and turn up the damn amp. Thats what I do at home.

I hate people who peak constantly, it ruins the sound.

but at the same time you have to realize the db scaling changes from one mixer to the next

manufacturers specs are usually tuned to how the mixer will best perform

red is red for a reason, you start sending distorted audio to the amps

loud doesn't kill speakers, distorted kills speakers

if you want more volume, turn up the amp

any reputable place will inform you beforehand how loud you can go (usually a sound tech)

in that case go with the sound tech's advise because the system will be tuned to what the sound tech suggests, don't go louder, the system's limiters will kick in and wind up making it quieter

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Morello manufacturers specs are usually tuned to how the mixer will best perform red is red for a reason, you start sending distorted audio to the amps loud doesn't kill speakers, distorted kills speakers if you want more volume, turn up the amp any reputable place will inform you beforehand how loud you can go (usually a sound tech) in that case go with the sound tech's advise because the system will be tuned to what the sound tech suggests, don't go louder, the system's limiters will kick in and wind up making it quieter

Or, in my case, they will tell you to turn it up without explaining how the amp works, thus making you redline completely, thus causing the mixer to cut out and stutter, while the amps stay in the green and have no issue blaring the distorted sound...

Yeah, I learned my lesson :/

quote:

Originally posted by jdat but at the same time you have to realize the db scaling changes from one mixer to the next

Yeah but it doesnt really matter, the point is stay in the green cause they designed it that way for a reason.

One thing I'll never understand about the older Pioneer mixers is that almost half of the channel meters are red. WTF?

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Morello manufacturers specs are usually tuned to how the mixer will best perform red is red for a reason, you start sending distorted audio to the amps loud doesn't kill speakers, distorted kills speakers if you want more volume, turn up the amp any reputable place will inform you beforehand how loud you can go (usually a sound tech) in that case go with the sound tech's advise because the system will be tuned to what the sound tech suggests, don't go louder, the system's limiters will kick in and wind up making it quieter

Sometimes when I mix after a DJ is playing, I will see the mixer is extremely in red, and when I ask the Sound Technician, he tells me don't worry, that he controls that somewhere else.

hehe...actually I think when someone redlines the mixer in the 1st place he sends distorded sound to the other parts of the signal chain too...

quote:

Originally posted by Trogdor One thing I'll never understand about the older Pioneer mixers is that almost half of the channel meters are red. WTF?

My biggest gripe about pioneer mixers, and I actually noticed it with A&H mixers too, is that you sometimes don't even get a signal on the meter unless the bass is turned up on the knob. So when my EQs are down while bringing in a track I won't know where it reads on the meter until I bring in the bass. Sometimes at that point it could have been too much or not enough. So annoying.

I just bought a djm 800 yesterday. I have two Rokit 5's for monitors. The monitors are powered all the way up and the mixer volume is turned 3/4 all the way up. And the trim almost 1/2 on the channel's w/ one yellow bar. And digital in/out connections to the cdj 200's along with LNR? cables to the master for sound.

But it is barely loud enough to me to mix with. My previous djm 300 seemed way louder to me . I can posts pics in a few hrs, but does this seem normal or am I missing something on the mixers configuration?

thanks

theoretically the loudest you can get in a mixer-to-PA chain is to have everything peak just or exactly at 0 db meaning the mixer sends the loudest undistorted signal possible, the amp picks up this signal and amplifies it to the PA system with the loudest undistorted sound level possible. So, as a conclusion, you should keep the mixer from clipping (going beyond 0 db) first place, then tune the PA amp accordingly thats my imho

the warehouse (the afterhours club i play at)

runs it's pio 600 into the red 2 bars to get the full effect of the system

but that's how it's tuned

and it's a sound engineered rig

Someone needs to send this thread, and the countless others like it, out to every "Sound Engineer," big name DJ, or tech guy employed by 90% of mega clubs that exist (at least in the states.).

Every night I'm out (whether I'm the one playing or not), by half an hour into the first opener, we're already hitting reds - By the end of the night, the mixer is usually so deep in the red it hurts; And this is even when guys like Lawler, Sasha, G&D, A&B, Dekay, etc. are playing, not some random yokels.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that it's nice to have threads like these where we say "DON'T DO THIS!" but in all honesty, when you're playing out in a big club, you work within the confines of the system you're playing on.

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT My biggest gripe about pioneer mixers, and I actually noticed it with A&H mixers too, is that you sometimes don't even get a signal on the meter unless the bass is turned up on the knob

Maybe, but not with the Xone:92. You also have the option of pre or post eq cueing, so you can at least match the levels by listening in your headphones.

As been said before also depends on which mixer. The Pio's (500 and 600) would start to distort the minute you hit red. Don't know about the newer Pio's though. A&H have an additional headroom of 18dB if I remember well on top of the red before they start to distort.
Anyway, best is to just stay in the green

- farris

Ive noticed that the djm 600 & 500 react well in the red, about two bars up. My nuo 2 however doesn't.. it depends on the mixer

Its been kind of common sense for me not to redline. It is infact red for a reason and sound can get distorted if its way up there.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Ive noticed that the djm 600 & 500 react well in the red, about two bars up. My nuo 2 however doesn't.. it depends on the mixer

Two bars up seems to be the sweet spot for them, but we were at the end of the red, I was trying to keep it from maxing out at the top.


If a good system is setup well, like one I played on at a rave a few weeks ago, then your VU meter on the mixer should reflect exactly the same as the VU meters on the amps...thats when you're getting the loudest possible output at the best quality.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Someone needs to send this thread, and the countless others like it, out to every "Sound Engineer," big name DJ, or tech guy employed by 90% of mega clubs that exist (at least in the states.). Every night I'm out (whether I'm the one playing or not), by half an hour into the first opener, we're already hitting reds - By the end of the night, the mixer is usually so deep in the red it hurts; And this is even when guys like Lawler, Sasha, G&D, A&B, Dekay, etc. are playing, not some random yokels. I guess all I'm trying to say is that it's nice to have threads like these where we say "DON'T DO THIS!" but in all honesty, when you're playing out in a big club, you work within the confines of the system you're playing on.

I saw Andy Moor break monitors because he was so far in the red on a pioneer 600. I dont understand why anyone would want to push it so high for the sake of "louder" when all its gonna do is make the sound crap.

Its weird to me the number of people who think this is an okay practice...you'd think most DJs/sound engineers would naturally be audiophiles with an ear for sound quality...

Some DJs are very hard of hearing.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild Some DJs are very hard of hearing.

I wonder why

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I saw Andy Moor break monitors because he was so far in the red on a pioneer 600. I dont understand why anyone would want to push it so high for the sake of "louder" when all its gonna do is make the sound crap. Its weird to me the number of people who think this is an okay practice...you'd think most DJs/sound engineers would naturally be audiophiles with an ear for sound quality...

i remember that nite...

and ya, i think it depends on how the sound system is set up because sometimes you can be in the red zone and it still sounds clear.

my rule of thumb is to stay in the green and allow ONE red block...

depending on the mixer and the setup, even +2dB is OK, IMHO. it seems to be optimum for some mixers.

i just made good practice of keeping my levels even, since i started mixing on a mixer with no VUs, and i never had any idea about it, and then when i tried to record my first set, the levels were waaayyyy off. from that day, i try to keep my mix at 0dB, or at +2dB max. depends on the place as well, because if they've tuned it for 0, for god sakes, stay under.

reminds me of this club i saw in pictures, where you see Richie Hawtin, his 2 laptops, 3 tech12s, his modded mixer, a couple extra gadgets, and a piece of paper enclosed in plastic infront of the setup that read "Do NOT Mix in the RED!"

I've yet to see a mixer in a club not be in the red.

i thought this thread was gunna be about something way different

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