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Making large (10+) BPM changes in a mix?

Hi guys,

I'm having trouble mixing between two records in my set where I need to "switch gears" i.e. go from the slower tempo of the warm up tracks to mid-range/peak-time speed. I try to start my sets off with some Deep House (around 120BPM) and then switch to some funkier House around halfway through (around 130BPM), but I have trouble making that step into the faster track.

How do you guys handle this transition? Do you gradually step up the speed a couple of BPM at a time, use a cut, or do something else? Should I limit myself to one range per mix, i.e. go deep for one mix and go funky on another? Any help would be appreciated.

In other news, tis the season for an equipment upgrade! A CDJ200 and a pair of Sony MDRV700 Headphones are in the mail right now

Maybe a deck with a real "instant start" will help me out with the mixes...

Re: Making large (10+) BPM changes in a mix?

quote:

Originally posted by Dojomaster26 Hi guys, I'm having trouble mixing between two records in my set where I need to "switch gears" i.e. go from the slower tempo of the warm up tracks to mid-range/peak-time speed. I try to start my sets off with some Deep House (around 120BPM) and then switch to some funkier House around halfway through (around 130BPM), but I have trouble making that step into the faster track. How do you guys handle this transition? Do you gradually step up the speed a couple of BPM at a time, use a cut, or do something else? Should I limit myself to one range per mix, i.e. go deep for one mix and go funky on another? Any help would be appreciated. In other news, tis the season for an equipment upgrade! A CDJ200 and a pair of Sony MDRV700 Headphones are in the mail right now Maybe a deck with a real "instant start" will help me out with the mixes...

I like to move up a little bit throughout the night, if i have a 3 hour set, i might go from 125 - 130 easily, maybe more-, each track or every 2 tracks just nudge up the pitch

yeah, you gotta move it up gradually over a number of tracks.
Know where you need to be in 5 tracks time style and bpm wise and move that way over the tracks between.

summet like 1-2% pitch per tune?

quote:

Originally posted by Lunar Phase 7 summet like 1-2% pitch per tune?

That might be a bit much, after 10 tunes you could potentially have upped by 20% which is a lot!! Just a notch here and there....

I've heard PvD do crazy tempo changes mid set, he makes it work really well. I try the same thing and it sounds awful!

Jarv

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister That might be a bit much, after 10 tunes you could potentially have upped by 20% which is a lot!! Just a notch here and there.... I've heard PvD do crazy tempo changes mid set, he makes it work really well. I try the same thing and it sounds awful! Jarv

That can Depend if you use Master Tempo or not.

With "Master Tempo" the Tempo Increase/Decrease will be less notable.

I always do Pitch Increments, But always keep concentrated on the song, eevry 16,32 or 64 beats I nudge the pitch, when I want to get faster, that depends on the song, and the speed I want to get.

If you have songs that have a silent part (In some breakdowns this happens), you could increase the tempo a lot, without being noticeable.

I have a question
about dropping BPM speed, what techniques do you use?

Let'0s say I'm in 140 BPM, and I want to go to 130 BPM, do you gradually go to 130 BPM, or just in one transition can you make the change and still sound nice?

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Pinokio That can Depend if you use Master Tempo or not. With "Master Tempo" the Tempo Increase/Decrease will be less notable. I always do Pitch Increments, But always keep concentrated on the song, eevry 16,32 or 64 beats I nudge the pitch, when I want to get faster, that depends on the song, and the speed I want to get. If you have songs that have a silent part (In some breakdowns this happens), you could increase the tempo a lot, without being noticeable.

yea this is possible although if you dont time it right and the melody or worse a pad plays then it sounds awful. the pitch adjustment is really noticeable. although again if you have the master tempo it wouldnt sound as bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Pinokio I have a question about dropping BPM speed, what techniques do you use? Let'0s say I'm in 140 BPM, and I want to go to 130 BPM, do you gradually go to 130 BPM, or just in one transition can you make the change and still sound nice? Thanks.

Gradual. But then again, this is house/trance you're mixing. If you wanna get some battle shit going, go for it!

quote:

Originally posted by Allied Nations Gradual. But then again, this is house/trance you're mixing. If you wanna get some battle shit going, go for it!

Not Really, Actually I got a lot of trance between 128Bpm - 145Bpm, The house tunes I got are mostly around 125Bpm - 130Bpm.

I haven't try yet to go up let's say from 130 bpm to 140, and then going back to 130.

have you try it?, well not from 130 to 140, but in your range that gotta be around 120 to 130.


Let's say if you are playing a 5 hour set, would you keep pin-poing the BPM up and down? have you tried or heard Dj's doing it?


Thanks

About Jonh 00 Fleming, I've seen his tracklists, and he mixes tracks that are originally at 138 BPM and others that are at 145 BPM, He can't be just going up and down when he mixes this songs with different speed.

That' about 6 % difference, but when I mix songs like this, they don't sound that well. of course I don't think he uses master tempo while mixing like this, because after 3 % it starts sounding really bad.
I have Pioneer CDJ-200, I don't know if myabe there is other equipment that can play tracks at such % difference, and still sound good.

quote:

Originally posted by Pinokio Not Really, Actually I got a lot of trance between 128Bpm - 145Bpm, The house tunes I got are mostly around 125Bpm - 130Bpm. I haven't try yet to go up let's say from 130 bpm to 140, and then going back to 130. have you try it?, well not from 130 to 140, but in your range that gotta be around 120 to 130. Let's say if you are playing a 5 hour set, would you keep pin-poing the BPM up and down? have you tried or heard Dj's doing it? Thanks

I meant you'd be mixing it in a house/trance style, not like battle style mixing.

Over a solid 5-6 hour set (especially if you are finishing the night) it's good to end on a deeper note in my opinion.

In a loong night like that, I'd probably do a pyramid.

125-130-135-130-125

maybe- who knows. Definetely possible if done right. Reading crowd is key.

if you mixed with ableton it would be much easier as you could put in a rising filtered note with pitchbend to make a sudden jump in bpm. not possible with turntables though, could be done with cdjs if you had three i think.

quote:

Originally posted by dj_kane if you mixed with ableton it would be much easier as you could put in a rising filtered note with pitchbend to make a sudden jump in bpm. not possible with turntables though, could be done with cdjs if you had three i think.

Possible with turntables, just difficult, You'd probably need some battle records and some quick fingers.

quote:

Originally posted by Allied Nations I meant you'd be mixing it in a house/trance style, not like battle style mixing. Over a solid 5-6 hour set (especially if you are finishing the night) it's good to end on a deeper note in my opinion. In a loong night like that, I'd probably do a pyramid. 125-130-135-130-125 maybe- who knows. Definetely possible if done right. Reading crowd is key.

Nice

Thanks for your help.

quote:

Originally posted by dj_kane if you mixed with ableton it would be much easier as you could put in a rising filtered note with pitchbend to make a sudden jump in bpm. not possible with turntables though, could be done with cdjs if you had three i think.

What do you mean with a Rising Filtered note?

Just a random Sound, that I would have on my third CDJ, and play it before the transition?

just record a note from a synth with a long release. put a low pass fitler on it and have the pitch rising for the required length then when you are going to make the change have a sudden slope on the pitch.

id post a sample though im in uni at the minute. will post one when i get home.

quote:

Originally posted by dj_kane just record a note from a synth with a long release. put a low pass fitler on it and have the pitch rising for the required length then when you are going to make the change have a sudden slope on the pitch. id post a sample though im in uni at the minute. will post one when i get home.

Cool
Taht's great, a sample would be nice

Thanks =)

You can pretty much nudge the tempo up one beat per minute per track you mix without anyone noticing. Be aware of how it affects your harmonics though if you're into that.

quote:

Originally posted by Pinokio I have a question about dropping BPM speed, what techniques do you use? Let'0s say I'm in 140 BPM, and I want to go to 130 BPM, do you gradually go to 130 BPM, or just in one transition can you make the change and still sound nice? Thanks.

The only time I ever have to do that is when I'm playing at our Student's Union so it's a wide range of dance music (house, electro, trance, drum n bass etc) and I want to drop back down to trance at the end of the night after the drum n bass, so it's a bit of a different situation because the crowd aren't so 'educated' in terms of fx and tricks (so you can get away with a lot more!)

But when I want to do that, say for example I've got a d'n'b tune playing at 180 BPM, I normally do something like (on CDJs) whack on master tempo and stick the pitch range in wide mode (+/-100%) with the tune playing on 0%, then slowly (over the course of 10 or 20 seconds) push the pitch down to about -50% (so it's playing at 90 BPM) where you start to get that grinding sound as master tempo tries to keep up, then just drop the next tune (say a trance tune at 135 BPM)...

It works of course because the transition the crowd hears is suddenly from 90 to 135 and they treat the bit before that as an effect or trick, so don't think of it as the whole set slowing down as such. But obviously that's what happens!

yeah just like +1% on each track before u make the jump should be alright and nobody should notice it. personally id make the nudge on a buildup or something to mask the fact that the track is playing a little bit faster than it originally was.

sample

just did this quick to give you an idea. but basically while its rising decrease or increase the pitch then make a dramatic change at when it peaks or if you have it slowed down or sped up enough dropping a track in just after it peaks might work. ive never tried this but ive heard it effectively in sets.

Thanks for all of the help guys! I'm going to try a gradual pitch increase, and see if I can make that "jump" a little smoother. The "Rising Filter Note" also sounded really neat (I'll have to try that later.)

quote:

Originally posted by Stu Cox The only time I ever have to do that is when I'm playing at our Student's Union so it's a wide range of dance music (house, electro, trance, drum n bass etc) and I want to drop back down to trance at the end of the night after the drum n bass, so it's a bit of a different situation because the crowd aren't so 'educated' in terms of fx and tricks (so you can get away with a lot more!) But when I want to do that, say for example I've got a d'n'b tune playing at 180 BPM, I normally do something like (on CDJs) whack on master tempo and stick the pitch range in wide mode (+/-100%) with the tune playing on 0%, then slowly (over the course of 10 or 20 seconds) push the pitch down to about -50% (so it's playing at 90 BPM) where you start to get that grinding sound as master tempo tries to keep up, then just drop the next tune (say a trance tune at 135 BPM)... It works of course because the transition the crowd hears is suddenly from 90 to 135 and they treat the bit before that as an effect or trick, so don't think of it as the whole set slowing down as such. But obviously that's what happens!

jejeje, I didn't know you also played Drum n Bass.

But that technique looks nice.
Seems like you don't beatmatch ther,e it's just a drop mixing, I think I need to practice that kind of Mixing for special situations.

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by dj_kane sample just did this quick to give you an idea. but basically while its rising decrease or increase the pitch then make a dramatic change at when it peaks or if you have it slowed down or sped up enough dropping a track in just after it peaks might work. ive never tried this but ive heard it effectively in sets.

That's very nice, but I don't have 3 CDJ's, I might practice this at a club

The sample you gave me suddenly cuts, it's that how is supposed to be?

I might be asking to much, but if you have a proper sample, or is this the proper one, I would like to burn the sample and try to mix with this technique.


Thanks to all of you for the help provided.

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