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-- So my friend is driving his ex girlfiend up to DC for an abortion.
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So my friend is driving his ex girlfiend up to DC for an abortion.

She's a minor, and DC is coincidentally the only place in the States where a minor can have an abortion without parental intervention. He left at 11:30 this morning to go and get a Dirt Devil taken to her vagina.

And I'm chuckling. Aheh heh... hooooooooo

not that any of you cared or whatnot.

Did he use a condom that failed? Or did he not wrap it up

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail Did he use a condom that failed? Or did he not wrap it up

her venus fly trap vagina snapped that mother****** into curtains.

I'm calling too much information on this one. No need to broadcast that kind of thing to the world.

ROFL

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov I'm calling too much information on this one. No need to broadcast that kind of thing to the world.

...because so much information has been given. Pardon me while I look up his social security number.

I wish the government could issue authorisations for late abortions. These two would be potential candidates for such measure, given the fact that they seem to believe that you can clearly right a mistake by killing someone who's got nothing to do with your acts whatsoever.

In their case though, they do have something to do with this issue, so aborting them wouldn't be as unfair as it is with this fetus.

I've got no problem with abortion. I don't think it is the same as murder. I don't think killing a fetus is the same as killing a person.






*runs for the hills*

We have enough folk around here as it is, so I'm all for abortions, or straight up killing people. Why not?

quote:

Originally posted by Lira I wish the government could issue authorisations for late abortions. These two would be potential candidates for such measure, given the fact that they seem to believe that you can clearly right a mistake by killing someone who's got nothing to do with your acts whatsoever. In their case though, they do have something to do with this issue, so aborting them wouldn't be as unfair as it is with this fetus.

It depends entirely on circumstance in my opinion. How it happened, how far along she is, etc. I agree that it should never be an immediate fall-back option, but I believe there are cases that warrant it. Without the details you can't really judge.

But as far as discussing it on the internet, there are people out there that kill people for having an abortion... Whether right or wrong, I wouldn't be broadcasting that my friend is having one on public domain.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov But as far as discussing it on the internet, there are people out there that kill people for having an abortion... Whether right or wrong, I wouldn't be broadcasting that my friend is having one on public domain.

I highly doubt my friend is going to get car bombed.

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy *runs for the hills*

*runs after Astroboy*

quote:

Originally posted by starglider We have enough folk around here as it is, so I'm all for abortions, or straight up killing people. Why not?

Because there's a problem of choice, regarding the fetus:

Apparently, you wouldn't mind being killed (unless you're placing yourself as an entity with different priviledges comparing to others, which can be seen as immoral). Therefore, if you got killed bu, or if you killed someone who had a similar view, that would be something you're not opposed to, so your liberty would be threatened in a way that you consider to be legitimate.

However, this fetus has never been given a chance to choose in the first place. Even appeals to emotions, such as "his/her parents wouldn't be able to raise him/her properly" are deeply flawed, for the child had no decision on whether he/she would mind growing up in such environment.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira However, this fetus has never been given a chance to choose in the first place. Even appeals to emotions, such as "his/her parents wouldn't be able to raise him/her properly" are deeply flawed, for the child had no decision on whether he/she would mind growing up in such environment.

Deeply flawed yes, but so are the opposed arguments. Are you suggesting that any human would rationally choose to grow up in a family devoid of love?

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov It depends entirely on circumstance in my opinion. How it happened, how far along she is, etc. I agree that it should never be an immediate fall-back option, but I believe there are cases that warrant it. Without the details you can't really judge.

hmm... that sounds like a good beginning for a discussion - what cases do you think would legitimate an abortion? (In case you want to see my initial point of view, it's already expressed in my reply to starglider)

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov But as far as discussing it on the internet, there are people out there that kill people for having an abortion... Whether right or wrong, I wouldn't be broadcasting that my friend is having one on public domain.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Lira hmm... that sounds like a good beginning for a discussion - what cases do you think would legitimate an abortion?

Well, rape for starters. My stance on abortion isn't firmly entrenched. I do believe it should be legal in the US on the sole basis of rape victims though. However, I have seen some fairly convincing arguments for 1st trimester abortions in terms of socio-economics, drug usage, etc. But those are all subjective, and I'm not sure I want to wade into a debate on abortion when I myself am not sure just how far I'm willing to go with this argument.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Deeply flawed yes, but so are the opposed arguments. Are you suggesting that any human would rationally choose to grow up in a family devoid of love?

I wouldn't go that far either, because this is not just a "rational" problem.

Although rationally it might not seem to be a good idea to grow up in a family devoid of love, there's the instict for survival and the possibility to find a heaven outside the family, among other possibilities. That's why the child should be given the benefit of the doubt and be able to choose if it wants to go on with life.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira I wouldn't go that far either, because this is not just a "rational" problem. Although rationally it might not seem to be a good idea to grow up in a family devoid of love, there's the instict for survival and the possibility to find a heaven outside the family, among other possibilities. That's why the child should be given the benefit of the doubt and be able to choose if it wants to go on with life.

It can't do that until its far too late to abort it.

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy I've got no problem with abortion. I don't think it is the same as murder. I don't think killing a fetus is the same as killing a person. *runs for the hills*

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Well, rape for starters. My stance on abortion isn't firmly entrenched. I do believe it should be legal in the US on the sole basis of rape victims though. However, I have seen some fairly convincing arguments for 1st trimester abortions in terms of socio-economics, drug usage, etc. But those are all subjective, and I'm not sure I want to wade into a debate on abortion when I myself am not sure just how far I'm willing to go with this argument.

It's alright... I'm in a bit of a hurry myself and I'm actually looking forward to hearing critics against my arguments in order to refine (or drop) them.

As for rape, I guess the best example I've been ever told came from a science teacher, back in 8th grade. Her cousin (or something) was raped, and she was deeply confused because she really wouldn't want to bear the child of someone who had violated her, but she was also aware of the fact that the child had nothing to do with the act (other than being born because of it).

She then had the child, gave it away for adoption and would visit the child every now and then. Eventually, she got attached to the child and found a way to adopt him/her (I really don't remember whether it was a girl or a boy). But, even if she had decided not to adopt this child, she would have a chance of being adopted by someone else (whereas the child would virtually have no chance at all after an abortion).

good luck with that.

I'm all for abortions as there are too many fucking people on this planet already.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail It can't do that until its far too late to abort it.

Well, that's exactly the point

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Well, that's exactly the point

Well actually that argument is flawed as well, because its illegal to commit suicide. So once you are born, you cannot legally choose not to go on with life.

would you bring a child to the world knowing that you dont have the resources to maintain it?

quote:

Originally posted by Fast Turtle good luck with that. I'm all for abortions as there are too many fucking people on this planet already.

I remember stating this to my friend who is anti-choice/"pro-life" and she flipped out on me for being "insensitive".

To me robbing someone of "choice" is not a problem in itself. The problem is that in not giving someone a choice with regard to their own life you may be forcing them to undergo an experience that is contrary to their will.

A fetus has no will, it only has the potential to develop into something that has a will - a "reasonable creature in being".

If the choice involved is something like circumcision, this involves pre-emptively making a decision that will permanently place a reasonable creature in being into a condition that he may not have chosen for himself had he the choice. Here robbing the creature of choice has caused it to undergo an experience against its will, for this reason the removal of choice or free will is wrong in this case.

In killing a fetus you are not forcing any reasonable creature in being to undergo any experience, let alone one contrary to its will.

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