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JOC/Tyas/ - Bassdrum Kick?

You have a probably all noticed that most productions featuring John O' Callaghan and Sean Tyas all use a very prominent kick, that is tight and really stands out. What kind of production techniques are used for this type of kick?. I know that EQ and compression, and experimentation are the keys to nailing that perfect kick blending through the mix.

You have to start with good foundations right?

I've never noticed!

I know that EQ and compression, and experimentation are the keys to nailing that perfect kick blending through the mix!

Combined with a decent kick you've, kinda answered your own question.

Clicky

You know that kick you sent ages ago? Well resampled and layed with it ages ago. I have included this in the a pack along with the kick sitting in a basic percussion set-up!

see if you can sample it in one of the songs, preferably off a vinyl release.

VINYL RIPPED KICKS ARE TEH FATTEST.

Thats all good and well but then your percussion start to sound weak. Re-compessing a static ridden kick is near impossible.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja see if you can sample it in one of the songs, preferably off a vinyl release. VINYL RIPPED KICKS ARE TEH FATTEST.

You're being sarcastic, right?

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex You're being sarcastic, right?

No, just an idiot.

no. ALOT of vengeance kicks are derived from samples off records, at least 50% of your vengeance kicks are vinyl rips he processed that someone probably ripped before him. that is why at least half of them have percussion present over the kick.

the fattest dirtiest crunchiest kicks are 808/909's processed, pressed to vinyl, ripped by someone, re processed, maybe layered if its recently made, and repeated for the last 10+ years. until we got here, the 21st century where someones done it for you and put it on a sample cd which they made by processing kicks from other sample cds. so now thats where you come in thinking all kicks come from so you dont believe you can get fat kicks off vinyl.

fact: manuel from vengeance made all his kicks processing other kicks he found on the internet, vinyls, and various sample cds, no he didnt create his kicks from scratch in wavelab or soundforge by pitching sine waves. go ahead and ask him. that shit only works for pussy ass psy kicks. if you want to try to recreate a 909 and then try to recreate the crunchy compression and low end thump vinyl gives a 909, GL and HF.

all these kick sample cds you guys have, come from people who rip the kick from the intro of every new vinyl they buy, even if theyre not gonna use it, they know it could be a good layer maybe. as long as your kick collection grows.

i have NEVER heard a decent kick come out of a wav editor.

btw doesnt sean tyas use alot of vengeance loops? chances are its a vengeance kick slightly processed to fit his song.

bottom line: ripping your own kick off vinyl and processing it to fit your song is more original than using a vengeance kick. you're just skipping the middle man.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery No, just an idiot.

Would you like to elaborate on that?

Vague nonsense like that isn't really helping anyone, is it.

quote:

Originally posted by retiro Would you like to elaborate on that? Vague nonsense like that isn't really helping anyone, is it.

"Nothing personal, just my honest opinion."

Thats okay then

I bet Sean Tyas makes all his records, presses em, rips em, then presses the rips, then rips the pressed rips and plays them on cds.

quote:

Originally posted by Allied Nations I bet Sean Tyas makes all his records, presses em, rips em, then presses the rips, then rips the pressed rips and plays them on cds.

I bet he rips the intros of his own tracks for kicks as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I bet he rips the intros of his own tracks for kicks as well.

He steals his own kicks! What an asshole!

They're most-likely ripped from John Askew tracks, which were probably ripped from PVD tracks =P

Anyways, the reason these kicks are so "loud" is because they're thick as fuck in the mid-range, and have the other sounds in the track mixed such that they allow the kick to be prominent throughout. Even if I gave you the exact same kick used in their last tune, it'd probably sound like shit if you simply plugged it in to a production you're working on.

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Walsh They're most-likely ripped from John Askew tracks, which were probably ripped from PVD tracks =P Anyways, the reason these kicks are so "loud" is because they're thick as fuck in the mid-range, and have the other sounds in the track mixed such that they allow the kick to be prominent throughout. Even if I gave you the exact same kick used in their last tune, it'd probably sound like shit if you simply plugged it in to a production you're working on.

Exactly, each element affects the other elements.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja no. ALOT of vengeance kicks are derived from samples off records, at least 50% of your vengeance kicks are vinyl rips he processed that someone probably ripped before him. that is why at least half of them have percussion present over the kick. the fattest dirtiest crunchiest kicks are 808/909's processed, pressed to vinyl, ripped by someone, re processed, maybe layered if its recently made, and repeated for the last 10+ years. until we got here, the 21st century where someones done it for you and put it on a sample cd which they made by processing kicks from other sample cds. so now thats where you come in thinking all kicks come from so you dont believe you can get fat kicks off vinyl. fact: manuel from vengeance made all his kicks processing other kicks he found on the internet, vinyls, and various sample cds, no he didnt create his kicks from scratch in wavelab or soundforge by pitching sine waves. go ahead and ask him. that shit only works for pussy ass psy kicks. if you want to try to recreate a 909 and then try to recreate the crunchy compression and low end thump vinyl gives a 909, GL and HF. all these kick sample cds you guys have, come from people who rip the kick from the intro of every new vinyl they buy, even if theyre not gonna use it, they know it could be a good layer maybe. as long as your kick collection grows. i have NEVER heard a decent kick come out of a wav editor. btw doesnt sean tyas use alot of vengeance loops? chances are its a vengeance kick slightly processed to fit his song. bottom line: ripping your own kick off vinyl and processing it to fit your song is more original than using a vengeance kick. you're just skipping the middle man.

So you want to ignore what's actually making the kicks fat, and attribute it to a completely false claim?

Let me tell you what part of that process is making those "fat" kicks: The fact that they've been layered and processed 10 billion times. Every sound in the audible range has been added, subtracted, excited, compressed and EQ'd until the kick is finally left as a veritable supersaw-like punch. When will people realize that vinyl adds nothing to a sound? It's not like it's rocket science here.

The "fattest" kicks are made by taking a 909 kick (which is pretty much the "descending sine wave" that you slate in your post), layering it with processed snares, blue noise, hats and fuck-all (if you really want to make it sound "vinyly," add some AC hum, since that's all vinyl can give you), running it through a tube amp, EQing up the midrange, compressing the whole shebang, and then EQing again to fit the tune.

But why do all that? It'll make the kick fat and big and thick, but it won't make it good. My favorite kicks are all ones with not much high range, and a whole lot of oomph between 20 and 60 Hz. The sub-bass is what makes kicks awesome. The sound in the midrange is only there so that the kick can attack quickly. I think these kicks are excellent kicks, and nothing you say can change that. So if you want a kick that eats up frequencies like a monster, go ahead, but it's really all about what you want.

And psy kicks are not pussy. They tend to be bassier than the standard pop kick because all of their volume is thrown into the low range, not across the board.

Re: JOC/Tyas/ - Bassdrum Kick?

quote:

Originally posted by MoonMan You have a probably all noticed that most productions featuring John O' Callaghan and Sean Tyas all use a very prominent kick, that is tight and really stands out. What kind of production techniques are used for this type of kick?. I know that EQ and compression, and experimentation are the keys to nailing that perfect kick blending through the mix. You have to start with good foundations right?

Yep noticed that too. He reminds me alot of a fresher PVD.

The kicks seem to pull down quite quickly and the bass is alowasy low like a PVD bassline. Both are driving as they flow together in the similar style to hard house (i.e. tight drum and low bass that gives an up and down movement to the sound, and I mean before compression is used)

His kicks have a full range but are not full and start with a hi/mid hit, possibly the same drum pitched up or time compressed or band passed??

Adding to what other people have said, his kicks sound hard because of the sounds they are set against.

the tyas kicks are the usual kicks like on every other track. the difference is just that he mixes his kicks slightly louder than other producers.

if you have Ozone you could pretty much make anything..just make a new file and put Ozone as the mastering play around with the presents on the mastering if you don't know how to use it and just try different samples and EQ and compress them a bit as you already said..and then convert the final out put to wave and there you have it your own uniqe kick..you could use it like other kick samples..and the best part is you don't even need to waste CPU by adding 10 fx to it cuz it already has them..

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex So you want to ignore what's actually making the kicks fat, and attribute it to a completely false claim? Let me tell you what part of that process is making those "fat" kicks: The fact that they've been layered and processed 10 billion times. Every sound in the audible range has been added, subtracted, excited, compressed and EQ'd until the kick is finally left as a veritable supersaw-like punch. When will people realize that vinyl adds nothing to a sound? It's not like it's rocket science here. The "fattest" kicks are made by taking a 909 kick (which is pretty much the "descending sine wave" that you slate in your post), layering it with processed snares, blue noise, hats and fuck-all (if you really want to make it sound "vinyly," add some AC hum, since that's all vinyl can give you), running it through a tube amp, EQing up the midrange, compressing the whole shebang, and then EQing again to fit the tune. But why do all that? It'll make the kick fat and big and thick, but it won't make it good. My favorite kicks are all ones with not much high range, and a whole lot of oomph between 20 and 60 Hz. The sub-bass is what makes kicks awesome. The sound in the midrange is only there so that the kick can attack quickly. I think these kicks are excellent kicks, and nothing you say can change that. So if you want a kick that eats up frequencies like a monster, go ahead, but it's really all about what you want. And psy kicks are not pussy. They tend to be bassier than the standard pop kick because all of their volume is thrown into the low range, not across the board.

i agree with your entire post, and i agree with your style of kicks, except that psy kicks arent pussy.

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja i agree with your entire post, and i agree with your style of kicks, except that psy kicks arent pussy.

stfu, psy kicks rape you in the ass.

lmao. sory, i havent heard any new psy since infected.

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex stfu, psy kicks rape you in the ass.

He was defending psy!

quote:

Originally posted by Allied Nations He was defending psy!

No, he said he agreed with everything I said, except my assertion that psy kicks aren't pussy.

I think?

I think the kicks they use are just compressed a lot, then the mids boosted so they stand out...not really a lot to it.

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