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Amazing Side-Chained Pad

Hey guys, how's it going? Good? Cool.

If I can get some help on this I'd appreaciate it. Anyway, let's get to the point here... I have a song that I usually listen to daily because it's just "that" good. It's from Pascal Dafoe and it's called "Detroit". What I want to do is manipulate the side-chained pad that's on the melody of the song. But my problem is that I have no clue if it's a Saw pad or any other type of waveform for me to work with, in fact, I'm not a very good synth programmer at all, I'm actually still learning.

Here's a sample of the pad I'm talking about that sidechains in the song:
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


It's beautiful man. Pure epic and emotional which fits my taste in Progressive Trance and/or Uplifting. May I also ask someone also to try and manipulate the pad, upload the sample, and explain how you tweaked it? I'd very much appreaciate it. It will teach me how to program my own epic sounding pads like this particular one, and I definitely think that it will help me a lot while I'm producing.


Thanks a lot, I appreaciate your time and help.
Cheers dude,
-Jordan

Hey man - I like that too! It sounds good. Don't know what to tell ya except experiment. It doesn't sound like a supersaw to me.

sounds more like sin/square

Here guys, I tried to manipulate it myself in Absynth 3 and I still think I'm no where close to it, besides the chord notes that I got right (it's not hard when you play piano). What I did was add a sine/saw and tweaked it up from there. I also added a very soft bass so it adds texture to it. Besides everything else, that's all I accomplished here.

At least I tried my best:
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


If anyone can try manipulating it themselves I will be very happy appreaciated.


Thanks a lot guys!

Anyone?

Wouldn't a simple gate give the same effect?

you should save your money and buy a Virus TI if you wanna make it big dude.

quote:

Originally posted by camsr you should save your money and buy a Virus TI if you wanna make it big dude.

Eh, the Virus TI is a powerful synth, sure. But it's hardly needed.

quote:

Originally posted by camsr you should save your money and buy a Virus TI if you wanna make it big dude.

bull shit

a workman should never blame his tools.

Kuffdam and plant use only software - u just gotta know what your doing.

By using a sampler as well it opens up new sounds........

quote:

Originally posted by camsr you should save your money and buy a Virus TI if you wanna make it big dude.

I'm not going to buy a TI yet. If I bought a TI it would be sitting there in dust, I wouldn't know what I would be doing with it yet.

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz Wouldn't a simple gate give the same effect?

I have no clue, that's why I asked someone to try and manipulate it for me. It's up to you guys though, it would be nice.

quote:

Originally posted by djms bull shit a workman should never blame his tools. Kuffdam and plant use only software - u just gotta know what your doing. By using a sampler as well it opens up new sounds........

I agree 100% with you. And yes, a lot of big producers out there use software. Maor Levi for example, and you can do the same thing with VST's because they're just virtual and almost exactly the same as hardware synths. If you know how to program good, using VST's will be the same thing as using hardware in my opinion - I'm going to bring Absynth 4 into this sentance and say that if you know how to use Absynth then you're basically "programming", Absynth is very powerful.

Yea, try a gate on a pad. I'm assuming you know what a gate is? If not, just ask Muck around with the settings and you should get a similar effect

As for the Virus TI, that is such stupid advice. I'm sorry, but you don't tell people to buy expensive equipment just because it's the best. You don't even need it as it was previously mentioned and if you do eventually get it, I'm sure that you will be at a point where you can decide for yourself whether you need it or not. The worst thing is when new producers go out and spend a whole load of money on things they won't be using for a while, or at all.

Good luck with it

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz Yea, try a gate on a pad. I'm assuming you know what a gate is? If not, just ask Muck around with the settings and you should get a similar effect As for the Virus TI, that is such stupid advice. I'm sorry, but you don't tell people to buy expensive equipment just because it's the best. You don't even need it as it was previously mentioned and if you do eventually get it, I'm sure that you will be at a point where you can decide for yourself whether you need it or not. The worst thing is when new producers go out and spend a whole load of money on things they won't be using for a while, or at all. Good luck with it

But that's not a gate. It's sidechained. The gain reduction is tied to the kick's amplitude, not a midi automation. And the method of gain reduction will have nothing to do with the richness of the sound. If you want a richer sound, use choruses, use unison, use detuning. Then sidechain the pad. There's not much else I can say.

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex But that's not a gate. It's sidechained. The gain reduction is tied to the kick's amplitude, not a midi automation. And the method of gain reduction will have nothing to do with the richness of the sound. If you want a richer sound, use choruses, use unison, use detuning. Then sidechain the pad. There's not much else I can say.

It probably is sidechained in the example, but the same effect could be attained using a gate. Something like mgTriggerGate (which is free by the way) could easily make this sound. Just raise the threshold to the desired level, then adjust the attack and release times. You should get essentially the exact same sound.

quote:

Originally posted by Enigmatic XTC It probably is sidechained in the example, but the same effect could be attained using a gate. Something like mgTriggerGate (which is free by the way) could easily make this sound. Just raise the threshold to the desired level, then adjust the attack and release times. You should get essentially the exact same sound.

No, it's not the same effect. It doesn't have the same transients as a kick, and it probably releases linearly, while kicks tend to release logarithmically. Furthermore, sidechaining only triggers above certain control signal amplitudes, while gating triggers immediately. Gating's trigger response is linear while sidechain compression's is generally logarithmic or hyperbolic. To the casual listener, maybe it sounds the same, but it's not.

It also looks like mgTriggerGate can't toggle through patterns, so if your kick does any fills, you're screwed.

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex It also looks like mgTriggerGate can't toggle through patterns, so if your kick does any fills, you're screwed.

Does anyone have a list of all mgTriggerGate's CCs?
I had to spend ages just to find what midi message changes the threshold.

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex No, it's not the same effect. It doesn't have the same transients as a kick, and it probably releases linearly, while kicks tend to release logarithmically. Furthermore, sidechaining only triggers above certain control signal amplitudes, while gating triggers immediately. Gating's trigger response is linear while sidechain compression's is generally logarithmic or hyperbolic. To the casual listener, maybe it sounds the same, but it's not. It also looks like mgTriggerGate can't toggle through patterns, so if your kick does any fills, you're screwed.

Hence why I said "similar effect" and not "the same effect"

Sidechaining is a much tougher process, but if he wants to do that, then good luck to him

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex No, it's not the same effect. It doesn't have the same transients as a kick, and it probably releases linearly, while kicks tend to release logarithmically. Furthermore, sidechaining only triggers above certain control signal amplitudes, while gating triggers immediately. Gating's trigger response is linear while sidechain compression's is generally logarithmic or hyperbolic. To the casual listener, maybe it sounds the same, but it's not. It also looks like mgTriggerGate can't toggle through patterns, so if your kick does any fills, you're screwed.

True it wont be the EXACT same, but in the mix, with all the other elements going on at the same time, i doubt very many people would notice that over a 16th note it releases linearly rather than logrithmically. Also, if you have a fill, all you have to do is create another instance of the gate and then toggle between the 2. I'm not saying either way is better, just that they would sound enough alike that it wouldnt make a real difference which one you used.

sidechaining sounds way better for this thats why everyone uses sidechaining for it, not gates. people would notice in a club. it sounds completely different. MGTriggerGate as good as a nice stereo sidechain like Voxengo Crunchessor? come on.

If done decent I think actually less than 1% of the producers on this forum would notice the difference between the gate idea and the real side-chain. Especially if you're able to find a transparent side-chain compressor.

If you find one that bluntly colours the sound the difference should be easy to spot, but then again, that wouldn't be a fair comparison now would it. I've used both a gate function and a side-chain compressor in several tracks, never had I had anyone telling my to do something about the gate effect.

quote:

Originally posted by Enigmatic XTC Also, if you have a fill, all you have to do is create another instance of the gate and then toggle between the 2.

Why not sidechain once, and have the pads follow the kick no matter what it does? Contrary to popular belief, sidechaining, at least as applied to pads as extremely as in the sample, is not hard at all. Most compressor plugins these days accept a sidechain signal from another track through a point and click process. I feel like the gating idea is only a simplification of the idea, not of the process.

Sorry Noob Question. What is SideChaining? lol

Channel one: Pads
Channel two: other sound (in this case a Kick)

The compressor is placed over the pads...
Usually if the pads would sound the loud to compressor will start to duck. With sidechaining it works a bit different.

The compressor is still placed over the pads, but doesn't compress by itself. The compressor listen's to the input from channel two (the Kick) and compresses the pads if the kick passes the threshold .

Thanks for the response storyteller! I think I got it!

But the purpose of that is what?

listen to the sample, or any prog house.

quote:

Originally posted by TrickDaddE But the purpose of that is what?

In the context of this thread, it's the cheesy Benny Benassi/Eric Prydz effect.

In err... "professional" production, it's more often used when you have an effect which you don't want to drown out the rest of the mix, i.e. reverb. It's common, for example, to sidechain a vocal reverb to the dry original; that way you can put a huge reverb on it, which you don't hear much of while the vocalist is singing, but as soon as s/he stops singing, it echoes for 10 seconds. You hear this all the time in EDM and pop music alike.

They also use it on the radio, so an announcer can talk over the track - you'll hear the announcer's voice at normal volume and the track suddenly goes to half volume. They're not actually fiddling with the volume, they're just using a sidechained compressor (most of the time).

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