TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- Visible immigrants having trouble identifying with Canada
Pages (2): [1] 2 »
Visible immigrants having trouble identifying with Canada
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...y/National/home
| quote: |
How Canadian are you? Visible-minority immigrants and their children identify less and less with the country, report says MARINA JIM�NEZ From Friday's Globe and Mail Visible-minority immigrants are slower to integrate into Canadian society than their white, European counterparts, and feel less Canadian, suggesting multiculturalism doesn't work as well for non-whites, according to a landmark report. The study, based on an analysis of 2002 Statistics Canada data, found that the children of visible-minority immigrants exhibited a more profound sense of exclusion than their parents. Visible-minority newcomers, and their offspring, identify themselves less as Canadians, trust their fellow citizens less and are less likely to vote than white immigrants from Europe. The findings suggest that multiculturalism, Canada's official policy on interethnic relations since 1971, is not working as well for newer immigrants or for their children, who hail largely from China, South Asia and the Caribbean, conclude co-authors Jeffrey Reitz, a University of Toronto sociologist, and Rupa Banerjee, a doctoral candidate. It is also a warning that Canada, long considered a model of integration, won't be forever immune from the kind of social disruption that has plagued Europe, where marginalized immigrant communities have erupted in discontent, with riots in the Paris suburbs in the fall of 2005. "We need to address the racial divide," Prof. Reitz said. "Otherwise there is a danger of social breakdown. The principle of multiculturalism was equal participation of minorities in mainstream institutions. That is no longer happening." The sense of exclusion among visible-minority newcomers is not based on the fact that they earn less than their white counterparts. Instead, the researchers found integration is impeded by the perception of discrimination, and vulnerability -- defined as feeling uncomfortable in social situations due to racial background and a fear of suffering a racial attack. That is why even as the economic circumstances of newcomers improve over time, the path to integration does not necessarily become smoother for visible minorities. The study found that 35 per cent of recent immigrants of Chinese origin reported experiences of perceived discrimination, 28 per cent of South Asians, and 44 per cent of blacks, compared with 19 per cent of whites. The gap didn't narrow, but widened, with the next generation, with 42 per cent of all visible minority second-generation immigrants reporting discrimination, compared with 10.9 per cent of their white counterparts. "There is a perception among minority communities that discrimination is part of their lives. Yet if you ask Canadians in general, they discount discrimination," Prof. Reitz noted. The study, released yesterday by the Montreal-based Institute for Research on Public Policy, was based on the Ethnic Diversity Survey, which asked seven specific questions about integration. It is considered the best source of information on the topic because of the huge sample size (more than 40,000 respondents). The study's authors found that only 33 per cent of first-generation visible-minority immigrants identified as Canadians, compared with 64 per cent of white immigrants, while 70 per cent voted in the last federal election, compared with 82 per cent of white immigrants. Seventy-nine per cent of visible-minority immigrants had Canadian citizenship, compared with 97 per cent of white immigrants. Regarding interpersonal trust -- trust of one's fellow citizens -- the response of blacks was markedly lower. Thirty per cent of blacks trusted their fellow citizens, compared with 50 per cent of white immigrants and 60 per cent of Chinese immigrants. As for the children of visible-minority immigrants, 44 per cent of them felt a sense of belonging, compared with about 60 per cent of their parents. In contrast, 57 per cent of the children of white immigrants felt a sense of belonging, compared with 47 per cent of their parents. While Canadians in general remain supportive of immigration, they also maintain a "social distance" from minorities, reflected in the study's findings, the authors noted. "When you study the trend over time, visible minorities who were born here feel less like they belong than their parents," Prof. Reitz said. The research highlights an urgent issue: the failure to engage immigrants as full members of society, said Ratna Omidvar, executive director of the Maytree Foundation, a Toronto organization that works with immigrants. "Good multicultural policy must not only protect our rights to equality, but it must also create real opportunities," she said. Added Prof. Reitz: "Multiculturalism doesn't have specific goals and objectives. The majority population thinks too much is being done already, while minorities think the policy lacks credibility." CANADIAN IDENTITY Do you identify as Canadian? Immigrants Immigrants Immigrant Recent* Earlier** Second Generation Third Generation and higher Whites 21.9% 53.8% 78.2% 63.4% Total visible minorities 21.4 34.4 56.6 Chinese 30.6 42.0 59.5 South Asian 19.1 32.7 53.6 Black 13.9 27.2 49.6 Other visible minorities 17.4 32.8 60.6 * Arrived in Canada between 1991and 2001 ** Arrived in Canada before 1991 SOURCE: JERRREY G. REITZ AND RUPA BANERJEE DISCRIMINATION? Have you experienced discrimination in the past 5 years? Immigrants Immigrants Immigrant Recent* Earlier** Second Generation Third Generation and higher Whites 19.2% 10.2% 10.9% 9.9% Total visible minorities 33.6 35.5 42.2 Chinese 35.4 30.9 34.5 South Asian 28.2 34.1 43.4 Black 44.8 47.7 60.9 Other visible minorities 32.5 34.8 36.2 *Arrived in Canada between 1991and 2001 ** Arrived in Canada before 1991 SOURCE: JERRREY G. REITZ AND RUPA BANERJEE |
People predicted this when Trudeau embarked us on his "social experiment" back in the 1970s...
WTF? I'm white and I'm the minority pretty much wherever I go (except my monthly KKK meetings). Honestly, the term "visible minority" is so terribly outdated. Just say non-White. That's what you mean anyway.
| quote: |
"When you study the trend over time, visible minorities who were born here feel less like they belong than their parents," Prof. Reitz said. |
i can give some angles on this based on a few personal experiences..
Quite often when i meet new people in Toronto, and they ask me what my background is, I usually just tell them that I was either born here or that I'm Canadian. The response I often get (given that I'm a 'visible minority') is: "No I mean, your nationality/background". Again, given that I was born here, makes my nationality Canadian, my background on the other hand is of mestizo descent which is a combination of a number of different ethnicities. I think the problem here is how people define the term 'nationality'. Your nationality by definition, is one's status of belonging to a particular nation by origin, birth, or naturalization. So again in a sense, if you're born here, then your nationality is Canadian no matter what your appearance. Unfortunately people's definition of this term seems to be skewwed as noted above in my example. That being said, I think it's one of the causes why some first-generation immigrants may not necessarily associate their nationality as being Canadian despite being born here.
On the flip side, would a first generation Canadian of European descent experience the same type of question if their response was that they were simply Canadian? I've had varried experiences in the past. Some respond that their parents may be Slovakian, Greek, or whatever the case may be, but it does differ from person to person. Some would say that they are simply Canadian and the discussion ends there.
Another experience I had was while travelling in various different countries. In one case I was in Italy and stopped walking to take a drink of water. A man sitting down beside me said hello and asked me where I was from. I told him that I was from Canada to which he made a gesture to his face and said that I don't look Canadian. Understandably I told him that I was born there but my parents were immigrants to which he then acknowledged. I think there's still a generalization that most Canadians are white in appearance which is no suprise given that the vast majority are. I wonder if I was black and from the US, whether I would have had to explain to the man that my 6th generation ancestors were once from Africa, or would he have taken my response as being American for what it was worth.
I think in the end people's acceptance of what a 'Canadian' looks like being that of a multi-ethic makeup will only come over time. Although these figures aren't too encouraging. One would think that in this day and age things would be different. Seems like we still have a ways to go.
I think one of the problems is peoples failure to embrace the canadian way of life (if there is such a thing). Many want to have the best of both worlds....and you can't always have that. That being said....canadians have to learn to embrace other peoples way of life as well.
no surprise here.
the problem, is that Canada offers its immigrants way too much freedom, in terms of maintaining the culture of their homeland. most immigrants dont even have to learn to speak english and can live in neighbourhoods where they are completely surrounded by only those who have immigrated from the same country as them.
the result has been a country where much of its population doesnt even acknowledge itself as canadian, and the effects are so bad that its even proliferated through to people who were born in Canada, but whos parents may have immigrated as children. thats bullshit, and thats why so many people would prefer to wave a flag thats not Canadian, even though though many of those people should be identified as Canadian.
I was born in Iran and my family moved here when I was 2 1/2 years old.
We first lived in Scarborough then moved to a smalled town called Port Elgin, on the shore of Lake Huron. Most people there didn't know WHAT Iran was.
My family adopted the Canadian culture, mainly some types of food and A LOT of hockey. All of my friends were white and we were treated like we were white. Most people thought that we were white (canadian) after a few years of living there.
Most people don't believe that i'm iranian because i speak like a canadian country boy (also i have very fair skin for an iranian, in winter). However, my morals and lifestyle still have a very iranian aspect. We never lost that. i can still speak farsi well.
I then moved to the city and i was kind of shocked.
Most people who immigrate here and stay in the city centres have no incentive to adapt to the canadian lifestyle, therefore they will not. They rather stick with their own.
This will divide the country. People have to be aware that adopting the Canadian culture is key in finding a common ground between all of the different cultures.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by yeahyeahyeah no surprise here. the problem, is that Canada offers its immigrants way too much freedom, in terms of maintaining the culture of their homeland. most immigrants dont even have to learn to speak english and can live in neighbourhoods where they are completely surrounded by only those who have immigrated from the same country as them. the result has been a country where much of its population doesnt even acknowledge itself as canadian, and the effects are so bad that its even proliferated through to people who were born in Canada, but whos parents may have immigrated as children. thats bullshit, and thats why so many people would prefer to wave a flag thats not Canadian, even though though many of those people should be identified as Canadian. |
I remember a funny story that my dad once told me while he was travelling to the US at customs. he was waiting in line while an oriental woman ahead of him approached the US customs officer, and this is the conversation that transpired which he overheard..
US customs officer: "Passport and citizenship please."
Lady hands over passport and says..
Lady: "I'm Chinese."
US customs officer: "You're holding a Canadian passport ma'am."
Lady: "But I'm a Chinese!"
US customs officer: "It states here you're a Canadian citizen, is this correct?"
Lady: "Yes, but I'm a Chinese!!"
The US customs officer looked dumbfounded. My dad just shook his head.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by yeahyeahyeah no surprise here. the problem, is that Canada offers its immigrants way too much freedom, in terms of maintaining the culture of their homeland. most immigrants dont even have to learn to speak english and can live in neighbourhoods where they are completely surrounded by only those who have immigrated from the same country as them. the result has been a country where much of its population doesnt even acknowledge itself as canadian, and the effects are so bad that its even proliferated through to people who were born in Canada, but whos parents may have immigrated as children. thats bullshit, and thats why so many people would prefer to wave a flag thats not Canadian, even though though many of those people should be identified as Canadian. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Cosmic Fur WTF? I'm white and I'm the minority pretty much wherever I go (except my monthly KKK meetings). |
i think white people are the visible minority in Guv
| quote: |
| Originally posted by jchung52 i think young people are the visible minority in Guv |
| quote: |
| won't be forever immune from the kind of social disruption |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by dEsidEL but it does differ from person to person. Some would say that they are simply Canadian and the discussion ends there. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by jchung52 i think white people are the visible minority in Guv |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by yeahyeahyeah no surprise here. the problem, is that Canada offers its immigrants way too much freedom, in terms of maintaining the culture of their homeland. most immigrants dont even have to learn to speak english and can live in neighbourhoods where they are completely surrounded by only those who have immigrated from the same country as them. the result has been a country where much of its population doesnt even acknowledge itself as canadian, and the effects are so bad that its even proliferated through to people who were born in Canada, but whos parents may have immigrated as children. thats bullshit, and thats why so many people would prefer to wave a flag thats not Canadian, even though though many of those people should be identified as Canadian. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by yeahyeahyeah no surprise here. the problem, is that Canada offers its immigrants way too much freedom.. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by dEsidEL I do agree however that there has to be some requirement that new immigrants have a grasp of the English language prior to granting citizenship. I have no doubt that someone who has a difficulty speaking English will likely find it difficult to adapt to the culture here. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Exactly, my coworker is Portuguese, she's moved here since she was very young, and I think her family has been here for like 15 years. Now here's the shocking part, her parents don't speak A WORD of English. Portuguese only. When they just came here they moved to a Portuguese area where everyone spoke Portuguese, and when she grew up, she would do the speaking of English for them (like whenever they have to use the phone, she talks for them, or when they go to the bank she goes with them and translates). That just isn't right. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Exactly, my coworker is Portuguese, she's moved here since she was very young, and I think her family has been here for like 15 years. Now here's the shocking part, her parents don't speak A WORD of English. Portuguese only. When they just came here they moved to a Portuguese area where everyone spoke Portuguese, and when she grew up, she would do the speaking of English for them (like whenever they have to use the phone, she talks for them, or when they go to the bank she goes with them and translates). That just isn't right. |
According to this article, the whites are least discriminated? This statement is absurd. Canada is filling up with Asians and the percentage of whites has been diminishing.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by yeahyeahyeah no surprise here. the problem, is that Canada offers its immigrants way too much freedom, in terms of maintaining the culture of their homeland. most immigrants dont even have to learn to speak english and can live in neighbourhoods where they are completely surrounded by only those who have immigrated from the same country as them. the result has been a country where much of its population doesnt even acknowledge itself as canadian, and the effects are so bad that its even proliferated through to people who were born in Canada, but whos parents may have immigrated as children. thats bullshit, and thats why so many people would prefer to wave a flag thats not Canadian, even though though many of those people should be identified as Canadian. |
I'm an American now living in Canada, and the whole multiculturalism thing never really existed where I grew up. We had mostly white kids, then a small handful of Arabs and Asians where I grew up. When I was growing up I was friends with this chinese kid and this saudi kid in my neighbourhood and ate the kind of food they had when I was over their house, and would didn't really think much of their other language and customs, like praying throughout the day and what have you. But I don't think anyone ever taught me that it was wrong or right for them to have their religion/customs (except at this one Christian camp I went to once). It was generally held that everyone would be allowed to keep and absorb what they wanted of their and American culture.
As far as I'm concerned, I think forcing someone to change their ideals to those more generally held is racist, because it implies that one group's lifestyle is better than another's. Putting so much emphasis on multiculturalism actually kind of seems to have strained things here, because the majority is getting resentful of the minorities (much like affirmative action in the US).
| quote: |
| Originally posted by dEsidEL The freedom to express and maintain one's culture, and where one chooses to live is part of Canada's constitutional rights. You can't force someone to live somewhere against their will, at least not in a democratic country like ours. I do agree however that there has to be some requirement that new immigrants have a grasp of the English language prior to granting citizenship. I have no doubt that someone who has a difficulty speaking English will likely find it difficult to adapt to the culture here. I think what the government can do, is promote immigration in areas where it is lacking. Perhaps providing subsidies, tax incentives, out-reach-programs, and having Canadians act as ambassadors to new immigrants in predomindantly low immigrant communities might help. I think I've actually seen ads on the subway offering such programs. |
I think the further you get away from a large city, the more the immigrants are going to integrate, interact with the locals and have more of a feeling of belonging or identifying as Canadian. They really don't have an option as they have no group of like people, per say.
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.