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Posted by D-Syde on Mar-29-2002 16:38:

Mix CD's - short songs??

I have a question for you guys...
How come on many mix cds (by a lot of djs either professional or amatuer) they mix in only about half a song? Some cd's I see there are up to 20 tracks, and on a 70 minute mix that comes out to three and a half minutes per each song. Id say the average trance song is about 7 minutes long...that means about a quarter of it isnt even played.

Now I know when you mix you dont wanna hear the begining or end where the song is real boring (just the bass). But still, I hear song being cut out way early...being cut out before they even get good.

Originally I thought it was to get more names on a cd...ie. somone picks it up and sees 20 track as opposed to 12, but Im really not sure.

BTW, my average mix is about 70 minutes, and I have about 12 - 14 songs on it.

Posted by Michael Russo on Mar-29-2002 18:19:

12 songs in 70 minutes is a good amount.

I don't know what mix cd's you're listening to, but the ones I buy have around 12 - 14 songs per cd. The only exception is PoD, but that's because each song was reworked first.

Posted by DJTJ on Mar-29-2002 18:19:

Commercially-produced compilation CD's are all about making money. Hence, they try to fit as many songs onto the one CD as possible. The way they do this is through editing the songs. You'll notice that most trance songs go something like this:

(beats and bassline for mixing in) -> (bit of melody leading up to breakdown) -> (breakdown 1) -> (main bit of the song) -> (breakdown 2) -> (main bit again) -> (beats and bassline for mixing out)

That's obviously generalised; i'm not saying all songs do that.

Anyway, to get as many as they can on a CD, they will record the mix and then simply chop out one of the breakdowns and main bits of the song. You'll notice that songs on a mix CD usually only have one breakdown, yet still keep the bit at the end for mixing out - this is because they cut out the middle of the song, rather than beginning the mix halfway through the song.

Also, these commercial compilations will never actually be mixed properly using a set of Technics or whatever - they are done on a computer using a program called Pro-tools. This allows them to cut and paste the song to exactly the way they want it, no mixing is actually done live. The song they use won't have even come from a vinyl - they will just get given a copy of it on a CD by the record company.

Also, don't be fooled by big-name DJ's on the cover. It's never actually mixed by them - all the mixing is done by technicians using Pro-tools. They will have at most endorsed the CD - they won't have even had a say in the tracklisting, because this is decided for them by the record company, i.e. what's the most commercial song we can put on this to get the most number of people to buy it, rather than what's actually the best song.

Needless to say, I stopped buying compiliation CD's quite a while ago

Posted by Michael Russo on Mar-29-2002 18:23:

good explanation DJTJ, but we have to distinguish between "underground" compilations and "mainstream" compilations. Not all underground compilations are mixed with TT's, but that doesn't mean they're no good or that they don't play the whole song. Example - GU cd's.

And about the big-name dj thing... just look at the tracklist, it's easy to figure out who chose the songs

Posted by D-Syde on Mar-29-2002 18:23:

WOW! Very informative...thanks

Posted by j_spot on Mar-30-2002 08:44:

transport 4- that album is done with vinyl(by him). Now you show me where maxie fux up?

then bad boy bill, banging the box series, done with vinyl(by him), he manages to get an insane amount of songs on there..but that goes for his style of music...

Posted by DJTJ on Mar-30-2002 11:34:

Well of course I'm not saying that all compiliations are done this way, but commercial ones (read: MoS) are.

And about the tracklisting thing... The tracks are obviously chosen with the DJ in mind, it would look a bit suss if Judge Jules released a CD full of prog house, or Digweed suddenly went all hard house. That being said, the record company will try to pick the tracks that will make the most money on a compilation that they know the DJ would play. Your average punter in the street isn't going to buy a CD when they've never heard of any of the songs, are they? Even if they are all shite.

Commercial compiliations are about the money, not the music. Remember that! It's the other way round for underground comps though, generally they fail to make any money at all.

Posted by DJ LIQUID on Mar-31-2002 00:47:

i guess you dont wanna listen to any house sets

i got CDs with over 50 trakz

I just spun a set....about 10 trakz within 30 minutes......i dont think thats too much....it really depends on what type of music ur spinning...and the mood you want to set

Posted by Intrinzic on Apr-02-2002 19:57:

A lot of the commercial compilation CDs have songs from one record label only. Licensing songs is a big hassle, so there's not much incentive in putting 20 songs on a CD unless you're the company that already holds the rights.

Another thought is that maybe if someone likes the abbreviated version of the song on the compilation CD they'll buy the full length version separately?

The only thing commercial record labels are concerned with is making money... certainly not the music itself.

I usually have 10-12 songs on my own "underground" CDs.

Posted by Fast Turtle on Apr-03-2002 23:36:

Notably, DJ Tiesto mixes most of his CD's via turntables. ISoS 1&2, Summerbreeze, and all the magiks (I'm pretty sure). It says it in the inserts of ISoS 1&2 and Summerbreeze, and it's pretty safe to say that the live magiks are indeed mixed live. Ferry Corsten and AVB also has a lot of live TT mixing CD's out. The GU stuff is usually good.

When I buy mix CD's, I try to just get the live mixed stuff. A skilled DJ or trance fan can automatically tell when something is mixed on TT's or Pro-tools. The kicks will sometimes cancel eachother out or the beats won't be quite perfect. For example, in Dave Seaman - Renaissance America Volume One, listen to 07 - Ian Wilkie vs Timo Maas - Twin Town. Listen to the transition and the end there is noticable kick shifting -- something you will not find on something mixed w/ protools.

As far as the song length, it doesn't matter. It all depends on the mixing style as to the length of tracks. Some DJ's prefer not to play the whole song, ie both breaks, and will cut it early. It all depends on the DJ.

DJ Nuclear ~_^

Posted by DJ Fien on Apr-04-2002 00:07:

GU artists pick their own tracklistings, along with many of the other progressive house CDs...

Now some of the bigger ones do get checked by the company so it fits their 'style' and will sell, but they don't pick songs to maximize their income.

Posted by mute79 on Apr-04-2002 18:11:

tru nucular

all compilations on black hole were mixed on tt's... dj dazzle kicks ass mixing the freedom serie!! check him out...

Posted by ali92 on Apr-04-2002 19:01:

I hate short songs! If I were a DJ, I would make sure that my sets have the longest version of the songs. So what if my 79 minute set only has 8 - 10 tracks on it! If the tracks are QUALITY tracks, then it shouldn't matter! If people like certain tracks, they'll usually want those tracks to be longer than others. If I'm making a compilation mix, then I'll usually make it be at least 2 CDs so more people can hear more than just 9 tracks... I always wondered why didn't Nicholas Bennison just stop his Trance Global Nation 2 mix at track 13 and leave the extra 5 minutes for the FULL Push - Universal Nation! Instead of doing that, he put a 3 minute track in there that sucked (in my opinion) and that made the set only 77 minutes, 51 seconds long!