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UK Healthcare Going Down Fast

I knew they had some serious debt (16.7 million pound deficit for this trust alone), but this is crazy. They're now asking nurses to work for free.

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Campaigners condemn plea for nurses to work unpaid Staff and agencies Friday January 26, 2007 Guardian Unlimited Health campaigners today condemned an NHS trust for asking its staff to resign, work for no pay or take unpaid leave in order to reduce its multimillion-pound deficit. Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust, which reported a �16.7m deficit last year, has sent staff a letter asking them to work unpaid for a day, take six months unpaid leave, take voluntary redundancy or defer taking five days of their holiday until next year to help balance its books. The trust says "just one extra day of work without additional pay as a voluntary contribution" would help to avoid "significant job losses". The trust is predicted to be �5m at the end of the financial year in March. The move has further angered health campaigners because it would also enable the trust to sign a deal under the controversial private finance initiative (PFI). Under the initiative, private firms raise the money to design and build a hospital, which NHS trusts must then pay back with interest over 20 to 30 years. The Conservatives say the eventual repayments for the existing 83 PFI hospital building projects - worth �8bn - would total �53bn. A spokeswoman for the UK's largest public sector union, Unison, said the trust's request was "disgraceful". She said: "It is unbelievable to expect nurses and other low-paid health professionals to work for nothing. Why should they be penalised for providing a good service when the deficits are the fault of mismanagement? "It's particularly galling when the trust wants to finance a PFI deal that will end up costing taxpayers more money." The leaked memo, issued to all staff by the director of human resources Terry Coode, said the trust was "facing a very significant challenge this year". It added: "To be unsuccessful in our target will have serious consequences for the trust that will affect us all. It will jeopardise our investment and development plans, including our ability to build the PFI." The letter sets out how job losses can be avoided, including "inviting enquiries about the possibility of voluntary redundancy". It also offers staff the chance to take a six-month unpaid break "to pursue a personal ambition or just to take a well-earned break". Staff would be able to return to their original jobs or one in a similar position, it added. The letter also encouraged staff to carry forward five days' holiday to the next year to "help avoid additional costs this year". It said: "We are also asking staff to contribute just one extra day without additional pay as a voluntary contribution to year-end. "This would further help displace some bank and agency (costs) and increase our opportunity to have additional income." Geoff Martin, head of campaigns at the group Health Emergency, said: "This slaps the nut on the government's health care policy. "Nurses and other members of the healthcare team are called on to work for nothing so that speculators and banks can cream off another fat profit from an NHS PFI scheme. "This is Robin Hood in reverse, robbing the poor to fill the pockets of the rich. And it's happening right under the noses of a Labour government who are ripping the heart out of the NHS." Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust said staff were being asked to work a day unpaid on an entirely voluntary basis. In a statement, it said: "Our staff have suggested this idea to help reduce agency use as part of plans to stay within our budgets. This informal request was extended to all staff, and we've had doctors offering to work extra hours for free. This is not about saving our PFI, but getting our finances right."

Attention British nurses, attention! Come to Canada, we have a severe nurses shortage, we guarantee to pay you well and Lord forbid we ask for to work for free.

Everywhere has a severe nursing shortage, because theyre not paid enough, overworked with hard shifts and given very little job oppertunity to advance in the industry.
Most join to help, most leave because theyre that disenchanted to go work in some other environment like bartending, sales or basically anything that pays a decent wage because theyre treated so badly.

Asking them to work for free though is a complete insult and it'll come back to bite.

Re: UK Healthcare Going Down Fast

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Originally posted by NeoPhono I knew they had some serious debt (16.7 million pound deficit for this trust alone), but this is crazy. They're now asking nurses to work for free.

Wow.
Who the hell is running their books??
Someone from the Bush administration?

English public service, it's either so slow you can watch the next ice age come into effect by the time youre processed or have too poke them with a stick to see if theyre still alive.

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Originally posted by Lilith English public service, it's either so slow you can watch the next ice age come into effect by the time youre processed or have too poke them with a stick to see if theyre still alive.

That sounds vaguely familiar....

Actually, truth be told, our Canadian Health Care system is pretty good.
I was very impressed after I broke my leg how speedy they can be if they want to be; I was in surgery approx. 2 weeks after doing it
It really depends on what you're waiting for.
And thankfully our government actually cares enough to inquire as to why it does take so long for certain procedures.

Surgery for a broken leg? Ouch. What happened?

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Originally posted by Lilith Everywhere has a severe nursing shortage, because theyre not paid enough, overworked with hard shifts and given very little job oppertunity to advance in the industry. Most join to help, most leave because theyre that disenchanted to go work in some other environment like bartending, sales or basically anything that pays a decent wage because theyre treated so badly. Asking them to work for free though is a complete insult and it'll come back to bite.

No kidding. My mom and mother-in-law are RN's as well as other members of my extended family. They're treated about as well as teachers are as far as compensation goes. I can't believe some of the stuff they do and deal with for what they get paid. Then to ask them to do it for free. Eff that. I'd find another job.

Don't worry, there will be a doctor shortage soon to go along with nurses.

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one study found by 2020 the United States will be short 85,000 doctors

LINK

I'll be perfectly honest, if the US goes to a socialized medicine program where doctors take a big hit in salary (more so than they already have with escalating malpractice insurance/non-paying health care providers), we're doubly screwed. By the time I'm done with med school, I will be nearly $200,000 (no, that's not a typo) in debt...and that's about average. Who in their right mind would pay for four years of undergrad, four years of medical school, work like a dog for 3+ years in residency, only to be strapped with a salary that would never let them pay off their educational debts in a field synonymous with long hours and constant ridicule?

This country (along with most of the world) has some serious health care issues on the horizon. People demand high quality medicine that is easily accessible, and they don't want to pay for it.

What kind of doctor are you studying to be?

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Originally posted by Sunsnail What kind of doctor are you studying to be?

I still have a ways to go before I really have to "pick" and it also depends on what you're matched for in residency. Right now, I'm leaning towards radiology.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono I still have a ways to go before I really have to "pick" and it also depends on what you're matched for in residency. Right now, I'm leaning towards radiology.

damn dude, just go with what I want you to study. Neurosurgery.

And yeah can you blame the docter shortage? Med schools make it impossible to enter and than you have parasites who want to sue the docters for the simplest things. It sucks being involved in the medical industry especially when every one is out to get you and you have no protection from these parasites.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid damn dude, just go with what I want you to study. Neurosurgery. And yeah can you blame the docter shortage? Med schools make it impossible to enter and than you have parasites who want to sue the docters for the simplest things. It sucks being involved in the medical industry especially when every one is out to get you and you have no protection from these parasites.

Yeah, f-ck responsibility. Its true that education for this field is expensive, but 100 000+ hospital deaths because of preventable accidents IN USA ALONE is unacceptable, and please dont be a dick about it (and dont forget, 9/11 only killed 3000+ people, but who gives a f-ck about these below stats, eh?):

First, lets read Wikipedia on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventable_medical_errors

In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/med...hp?newsid=11856

Americans Mad And Angry
http://www.americansmadandangry.org/

HOSPITAL PATIENT SAFETY CAMPAIGN TO SAVE 100,000 LIVES
http://www.medicalconsumers.org/pag...00000Lives.html

etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.


Too much I'd say. I mean, I know noone's perfect, but when 100 000, 200 000! people die each year in States alone due to preventable errors - I'm surprised that there are so few lawsuits.

Neurosurgery is a 7 year residency, and then you'll probably do a fellowship. That and the hours, even out of residency, are ridiculous. Besides, I quickly realized that countless hours spent over an unconscious patient was "not in my blood." God bless surgeons, but one of them I ain't.

Radiology is a 5 year residency and the "regular hours" are awesome. Besides that, I'm a complete computer nerd and electronics geek, so it fits me pretty well.

But, only time will tell, trust me...I'm keeping a very open mind.

I've just had first-hand experience of this the other week.

I was due to have my annual retinal scan (type 1 diabetic) and I got a letter telling me it had been cancelled but would be re-scheduled. Upon my own investigation, it turns out that they no longer have the funds to provide this crucial service anymore, and they're telling patients to go private! Well, I can afford private luckily, but what about those who can't?

And it annoys me even more when a NICE think-tank has suggested the NHS giving rewards to drug-addicts who stay clean, such as Plasma TVs, mp3 players etc...

I guess I am slightly better off though than others in terms of a Health service. When I was staying in Montreal in 2003, I was told by the owner of a B&B about a friend of hers who had to hold down two jobs just to pay for her insulin, now THAT is unfair.

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Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_ I've just had first-hand experience of this the other week. I was due to have my annual retinal scan (type 1 diabetic) and I got a letter telling me it had been cancelled but would be re-scheduled. Upon my own investigation, it turns out that they no longer have the funds to provide this crucial service anymore, and they're telling patients to go private! Well, I can afford private luckily, but what about those who can't? And it annoys me even more when a NICE think-tank has suggested the NHS giving rewards to drug-addicts who stay clean, such as Plasma TVs, mp3 players etc... I guess I am slightly better off though than others in terms of a Health service. When I was staying in Montreal in 2003, I was told by the owner of a B&B about a friend of hers who had to hold down two jobs just to pay for her insulin, now THAT is unfair.

Yeah, I read that too (about drug addicts receiving incentives to stay clean). Quite an interesting approach if you ask me, but it seems to be rewarding people to stay healthy. Doesn't seem very fair (or cost effective) for those who decide to lead normally drug-free lives.

I think the heart of your post, having to go to private medicine as public funds have run out, is the final destination of every public health care system. I know I've posted it before, but we'll basically all have two systems running concurrently; a public and a private sector. Everyone will have "free" access to the public health care, but wait times will be long, practitioners will be overworked and as money runs out, medical procedures will be denied. Then, for those who can afford a premium private insurance, you'll be afforded private hospitals where you are seen quickly by a well-paid and well-qualified staff.

Not even as a physician, but as a human, this idea scares the hell out of me. We will have first and second class medicine, in effect. Those that can afford it will receive vastly superior care than those who rely entirely on the public system. I know people will complain that medicine today is expensive, and due to the reality of the situation, good health care will always be. However, even if you can't afford it, you WILL receive the highest quality of care this country has to offer, no matter what.

I'm not saying there's an easy answer to the mess, but if we're just going to look at "accidental deaths," imagine this; if in our current medical system we have nurses that are responsible for 5-10 (or more) patients at a time, and doctors who are responsible for maybe ten times that, think of what would happen in a public health care environment where each would be responsible for 3 to 4 times that, at reduced salaries. It scares the hell out of me for those who might be forced into that system.

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