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psychadelics and spirituality

great article read it now bitches

http://deoxy.org/w_psyrel.htm

quote:

The first characteristic is a slowing down of time, a concentration in the present. One's normally compulsive concern for the future decreases, and one becomes aware of the enormous importance and interest of what is happening at the moment. Other people, going about their business on the streets, seem to be slightly crazy, failing to realize that the whole point of life is to be fully aware of it as it happens. One therefore relaxes, almost luxuriously, into studying the colors in a glass of water, or in listening to the now highly articulate vibration of every note played on an oboe or sung by a voice. From the pragmatic standpoint of our culture, such an attitude is very bad for business. It might lead to improvidence, lack of foresight, diminished sales of insurance policies, and abandoned savings accounts. Yet this is just the corrective that our culture needs. No one is more fatuously impractical than the "successful" executive who spends his whole life absorbed in frantic paper work with the objective of retiring in comfort at sixty-five, when it will all be too late. Only those who have cultivated the art of living completely in the present have any use for making plans for the future, for when the plans mature they will be able to enjoy the results. "Tomorrow never comes." I have never yet heard a preacher urging his congregation to practice that section of the Sermon on the Mount which begins, "Be not anxious for the morrow...." The truth is that people who live for the future are, as we say of the insane, "not quite all there"�or here: by over-eagerness they are perpetually missing the point. Foresight is bought at the price of anxiety, and when overused it destroys all its own advantages.

So fucking true. Everyone here in the US seems so involved in trying to strike it rich, that only through the obtainment of large sums of cash can a person truly find happiness. If that is all you live for, then you really are "missing the point."

That was a really interesting read, thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Zharen From the pragmatic standpoint of our culture, such an attitude [concentration on the present] is very bad for business.

Increased time preference is bad for more things than just "business."

Most religions have included psychedelics or other psychoactive substances in their traditional ceremonies. Even the Bible has passages where people drink much alcohol in celebration.

OT : Dunno how a combination of stimulants and depressants affects the body. Redbull + Vodka, or alcoholic energy drinks like Sparks are classic combinations which should not really work. Is it more psychological to believe that redbull + vodka kicks ass ? To me it looks like the two should neutralize each other's effects.

"Stimulant" and "depressant" are really broad terms that aren't particularly relevant when discussing the neurological effects of particular substances.

In the case of caffeine and alcohol, alcohol causes dopamine release in your brain and caffeine does nothing to counteract this, as far as I know, so you still get the pleasant feeling.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M OT : Dunno how a combination of stimulants and depressants affects the body. Redbull + Vodka, or alcoholic energy drinks like Sparks are classic combinations which should not really work. Is it more psychological to believe that redbull + vodka kicks ass ? To me it looks like the two should neutralize each other's effects.

Stimulants and depressants don't necessarily counteract each other, they just interact. When i've taken strong stimulants (cocaine) with strong depressants (morphine) they didn't counteract each other, i just got extremely extremely fucked up. I wouldn't recommend it.

I thought that while they didn't directly interfer, they often mask the effects of eachother, which is why speedballs and the like are so dangerous, because the stimulant masks the effect of the depressant, or vice versa, leading to taking a higher dose to get the same effect and increasing the risk of overdosing.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M OT : Dunno how a combination of stimulants and depressants affects the body. Redbull + Vodka, or alcoholic energy drinks like Sparks are classic combinations which should not really work. Is it more psychological to believe that redbull + vodka kicks ass ? To me it looks like the two should neutralize each other's effects.

No drugs don't neutralize each other like that. It is not psychological. The thing with speedballs is that the cocaine wears off first which could lead to a delayed overdose. However they don't cancel each other out. It is a completely different feeling than doing the drugs by themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild No drugs don't neutralize each other like that. It is not psychological. The thing with speedballs is that the cocaine wears off first which could lead to a delayed overdose. However they don't cancel each other out. It is a completely different feeling than doing the drugs by themselves.

It's actually been discovered that stimulants and depressants actually multiply the effects of each other rather than canceling each other out. Just try drinking a couple of redbull+vodkas in a night and you'll know what I mean. I did that one night and it felt like my heart was going to jump out of my chest. I can't even begin to imagine doing a speedball.

anyway, check out this read. its an article comparing The Tibetan Book of the Dead (which goes over what happens when you die) and the effects of LSD

http://www.erowid.org/library/books...xperience.shtml

it's a long but crazy read.

Why do some people have to endow drug experiences with some deep, profound, spiritual significance? It looks goofy to me.

its ignorant people like you that need to read the article i posted. drugs are not bad,mmkay :P



except heroine, that's bad. real bad.

Some of those ignorant people where perfectly capable of finding spirituality in their lives without drugs or an altered state of conciousness. In my mind its always been a cop-out for just actually thinking. Just because they dont subscribe to it doesnt make it wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Haunted its ignorant people like you that need to read the article i posted. drugs are not bad,mmkay :P

I don't think drugs are bad at all. I think they should all be legalized, and I've done some of them myself and found them pretty fun.

I just wish that certain sets of drug users would get over themselves and just admit that they like seeing weird shit and having a good time instead of trying to infuse a bunch of "profundities" and Eastern or pseudo-Eastern spirituality into altering their brain chemistry. It looks mighty silly to me.

But if that's your thing, more power to you, I suppose.

I LOVE BEEEEEER AND PUSSSSSSSSSY!!!!

You're too young for those things. Stay in Never Never Land!

DXM really is spiritual!

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I just wish that certain sets of drug users would get over themselves and just admit that they like seeing weird shit and having a good time instead of trying to infuse a bunch of "profundities" and Eastern or pseudo-Eastern spirituality into altering their brain chemistry. It looks mighty silly to me.

how can you say people do drugs just to get high? can you go inside the head of every person to see their motives and experiences?

and i'm not even talking about most drugs, this is specifically about psychedelic drugs. LSD, psilocybe mushrooms.

just because you are against doing them doesn't mean people do them just to have fun. christ man do you listen to yourself? you just gave me the most retarded argument when i just posted an article by a well known scholar who says the complete opposite.

quote:

Originally posted by Haunted how can you say people do drugs just to get high? can you go inside the head of every person to see their motives and experiences?

I wouldn't say that's the motivation of all people, no. People do drugs for many reasons.

quote:

just because you are against doing them doesn't mean people do them just to have fun. christ man do you listen to yourself?

I'm not against doing drugs at all, as I have already said. If the quality, purity, and safety of substances were more certain I would probably have tried many more of them myself. I will now make myself as clear as possible:

I AM NOT AGAINST PEOPLE DOING DRUGS AND HAVE DONE DRUGS MYSELF. I THINK THAT ALL DRUGS SHOULD BE LEGAL TO POSSESS, IMBIBE, GROW / SYNTHESIZE, AND SELL.

Now that this misunderstanding is out of the way, I will say that my only beef is that people who tout drug experiences as "profound" seem silly to me since the supposed "insights" gained seem like vague puffs of smoke, nothing that bright or profound at all. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, though.

People use drugs for spiritual purposes because they provide a different way of looking at the world and reality, which often brings people to see things they've never seen before, come to conclusions they probably wouldn't have come to without drugs.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I wouldn't say that's the motivation of all people, no. People do drugs for many reasons. I'm not against doing drugs at all, as I have already said. If the quality, purity, and safety of substances were more certain I would probably have tried many more of them myself. I will now make myself as clear as possible: I AM NOT AGAINST PEOPLE DOING DRUGS AND HAVE DONE DRUGS MYSELF. I THINK THAT ALL DRUGS SHOULD BE LEGAL TO POSSESS, IMBIBE, GROW / SYNTHESIZE, AND SELL. Now that this misunderstanding is out of the way, I will say that my only beef is that people who tout drug experiences as "profound" seem silly to me since the supposed "insights" gained seem like vague puffs of smoke, nothing that bright or profound at all. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, though.

Why don't you just say that you've never had such an experience instead of saying that it is impossible for others to have such an experience? Sounds like you've never eaten a quarter ounce of mushrooms to me.

I'm going to half agree with Mr.BoJingles on this one. Ibelieve that people attach too much spiritual meaning to psychedelic drugs. Don't get me wrong, i've done my share and probably did your share and a few other peoples shares as well, so i know what it can be like. However i have recieved much more spiritual enlightenment without drugs than i ever did with them. Yes, psychedelics can be a spiritual experience. But it is a false spiritual experience, it goes away when you come down. A real spiritual experience stays with you for more than the 8 hours after you dropped or whatever you did.

I have eaten mushrooms, and I enjoyed it. I also admit that I acted like an idiot while I was on them, this admission being a rather modest feat which is apparently impossible for some people.

People who are on hallucinogens act mildly stupid and odd at best. Maybe their actions don't correlate well with whatever profound insight is secretly bubbling up inside their heads, but forgive me for being skeptical.

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