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more advanced melodies

I might get flamed for asking this but.. (and i know its bold)

How do u guys go about making more advanced melodies, like the pumping club beat, and the nice clean trance melody. It seems like after all this work studying and reading up and practicing the music theory i can only produce simple shitty little melodies. How do you begin the melody and match it up with your drum beat? Do u just start with a synth sound that you like and start plucking at the piano roll? I'm not so much asking how to make the melody in every aspect but I'm just curious as to how you guys or girls create or start your melodies. I feel like im missing out on something that everyone else knows. I can never get my drum beat to mix or sit well with the melody. Please do not look at this topic as a "teach me how to do it all the way" i'm just looking for some tricks or tips on how I should go about it.

Really just focus on what you want the music to finally end up like. I always look at the finished product in my mind and I try to create something that leads up to it.

Hmm, well heres a piece of advice, dont use the piano roll! You probably need a midi keyboard, and then you need to practise, a lot. Like 4 hours a night might do the trick. Music theory WILL NOT help you in 99% of occasions when it comes to melody creation, maybe in other genres, not trance. Thats all the advice I can give, sorry.

just use arps? thats what i did i used to think all techno was just arps, then i realised you can just play like an arp yourself and make it more complex, so i never use arps any more :P

ok well it sounds to me as if you have no musical knowledge...?

there is no "real" answer to your question btw.

i suggest you take private music lessons...any instrument, so long as you learn some musical concepts. it might take several years though.

it might not make sense that learning an instrument is going to help...but the instrument learning is not the point. the point is to learn how music works...

i think what he means is complex multi-layered melodies. by simple he means playing one note (or one accord) at a time in sequential order. by complex melodies i mean layering two or more simple melodies on top of each other. like this:

Synth-1: D A B C D D D C D A B C D D D A
Synth-2: B B B B C C C C B B B B D D D D

first melody is the leading one in say octave 0, second one is supporting melody in octave -1. whadda ya say?

hey can you post a sample of what you sound like now? maybe that would help?

You gotta have an idea of what you want it to sound like.

get a good chord progression and throw an arpeggio at it


/sarcastic

get midi;s from other big trance tracks that have been made and study them, throw notes around in the same keys they use.

It's not alwasy about the melody but the instrument u use and how that blends in to your mix

Um, no, you can't just come up with 2 random melodies and "layer" them, sorry.

Learn music. Theory, instrumental, whatever, it's all good. But if you want to write music you have to know something about it, and just listening to a bunch of trance and fooling around in sequencers isn't going to get you there.

Of course that's only if you want the "advanced" melodies you're talking about. For the simple stuff you hear in 90% of commercial dance tracks, it's not really a requirement.

Learn an instrument. It may seem like a pat answer, but it's true. Take lessons or teach yourself. Learn the scales and how to improvise. Most of us improvise when we compose melodies, that is, actually play a midi keyboard. I usually throw down a chord progression first, or maybe a bass line, then I start putting melodies on top of it. A lot of the time I'll work out a melody line in my head, then I'll play it on the keyboard. I've played lead guitar for years, so advanced melodies come easy to me. You have to pay your dues if you want to write good melodies. Don't worry about composing right now, learn how to play first.

More of a general advise but hey, nobody told me this and I had to figer it out myself that its a) always cool to use chords when playing longer notes and b) to span your melodies over two octaves or more.

+1

quote:

b) to span your melodies over two octaves or more.

This is what i do..might help you too..

When i have one of those bad days when i can't think of any decent melodies, i empty my mind and try no to think of anything (specially songs) and just play the piano (midi) for about 5 to 10 min none stop and record everythng..90% of the times 50% of the song is useless but when i go back and listen to it a few times i find few notes/leads/chords that i like and i take them out and combine them and i take it from there..

www.nonstop2k.com

load some of them midi's into cubase and learn from them!

learn to play inversions

quote:

Originally posted by System101 This is what i do..might help you too.. When i have one of those bad days when i can't think of any decent melodies, i empty my mind and try no to think of anything (specially songs) and just play the piano (midi) for about 5 to 10 min none stop and record everythng..90% of the times 50% of the song is useless but when i go back and listen to it a few times i find few notes/leads/chords that i like and i take them out and combine them and i take it from there..

30% of the time, it works all the time, while 80% of the time % based data is 70% false.

quote:

Originally posted by System101 This is what i do..might help you too.. When i have one of those bad days when i can't think of any decent melodies, i empty my mind and try no to think of anything (specially songs) and just play the piano (midi) for about 5 to 10 min none stop and record everythng..90% of the times 50% of the song is useless but when i go back and listen to it a few times i find few notes/leads/chords that i like and i take them out and combine them and i take it from there..

This is kinda similiar to what I do...

I have an old Yamaha DJX that I don't have plugged into anything, I fiddle around alot on that and when I play something I like I go to the computer and start laying it down there.

It's pretty much what I do with any music I write now, either the Yamaha or my guitar.

I spend alot of time playing piano or guitar and not focusing so much on song writing however.

I just enjoy playing music.

I like to make fine adjustments to my head, ok, advanced melodies? stick with your original melodies, if all your melodies are coming out like shit than ur ideas are shit, just get that line going in your head and record it with the best sound you think represents it, people seek too much phatness from one note, stay light and thin, a few strings wrapped together will form a thick rope, focus on the hooks whatever they may be. I create samples, regardless of time structure because you can quantize those later, just record, record, record, end up with a 1000 intricate samples, that's you, that's your project, find the priorities and sub the minorities in sync with the majority

take your original "simple" melodies and then run then through FX that will "add" notes to your original melody. the arpache quantizer in cubase works well.....you can do the same things when using VSTs as well IE impOSCcar.

First thing's first. I don't want to make an enemy out of you in no way. But I have to comment on your hints:

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Hmm, well heres a piece of advice, dont use the piano roll! You probably need a midi keyboard, and then you need to practise, a lot. Like 4 hours a night might do the trick.

I agree, I've been practicing piano from the age of 5 until I was 30, and this pays off in form of better melodies!

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Music theory WILL NOT help you in 99% of occasions when it comes to melody creation, maybe in other genres, not trance.

This is totally and utterly bogus! Without music theory your track is destined to sound generic, plastic and in 99% of the cases sound like it is made with eJay. Music theory is the sh*t you need to learn if you are intrested in getting advanced melodies done either you want it or not. I've been using music theory in my melody creation process, and I feel naked without it.

quote:

Originally posted by jobro First thing's first. I don't want to make an enemy out of you in no way. But I have to comment on your hints: I agree, I've been practicing piano from the age of 5 until I was 30, and this pays off in form of better melodies! This is totally and utterly bogus! Without music theory your track is destined to sound generic, plastic and in 99% of the cases sound like it is made with eJay. Music theory is the sh*t you need to learn if you are intrested in getting advanced melodies done either you want it or not. I've been using music theory in my melody creation process, and I feel naked without it.

Nah thats OK, no offence taken, whatever works for you. I know a bit of music theory, I don't use it. I actually think that melodies made with music theory - rather than just sitting and playing it out - sound generic, but if it's working for you then who am I to say?
Also there is a difference between knowing technique and basic theory (like whats major and whats minor, what scales are which etc) and trying to build a track solely on your knowledge of how certain chords are going to sound, eg knowing that a 145 is going to sound like .... and a 135 is going to sound more ... Anyway, I'm a guitarist originally, so I approach most things from that angle, which is a very practical angle, I don't do theory for theories sake.
Like I say, whatever works for you.

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