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Home Studio Monitors..?

Hey, so I've been looking at monitors for home studio use, as I don't have the funds to step it up to some phat BM5a's or hr824's or anything or to lay a bunch of foam everywhere.

Basically, there's really mixed opinions on this style of monitors (the 500ish range), and I had some questions:

-Some people love the Rokits, others think they're total crap? Care to clarify?

-Avoid the Behringer Truths?

-I've heard good things about the Genelec 8020As, is that right?

-Really mixed opinions on the Alesis, any further clarification there?

I'm planning to stop by Guitar Center sometime soon to reference them myself, so any particular tunes you'd recommmend also?

I know this question's been beaten to death as is, but I'd really appreciate any advice.

thanks a lot!

<3

Sadly enough, I've been using my Logitech 2.1 computer speaker system for a long time. These things are tanks. The two stereo speakers have been pumping decent and clear for nearly 5 years. The subwoofer has a bass adjustment that allows me to control how much bass is pumping though.

I've looked into getting "studio monitors" but they truly don't sound any better (or worse) than what I have now. I know it's cheesy but I don't see the sense in buying an expensive pair of monitors when these do the job just fine.

Re: Home Studio Monitors..?

quote:

Originally posted by cocaine white Hey, so I've been looking at monitors for home studio use, as I don't have the funds to step it up to some phat BM5a's or hr824's or anything or to lay a bunch of foam everywhere. Basically, there's really mixed opinions on this style of monitors (the 500ish range), and I had some questions: -Some people love the Rokits, others think they're total crap? Care to clarify? -Avoid the Behringer Truths? -I've heard good things about the Genelec 8020As, is that right? -Really mixed opinions on the Alesis, any further clarification there? I'm planning to stop by Guitar Center sometime soon to reference them myself, so any particular tunes you'd recommmend also? I know this question's been beaten to death as is, but I'd really appreciate any advice. thanks a lot! <3

Rokits are ok..not grat IMO. Genelecs are the bomb if you can afford them. I use Mackie HR824's and they are great. They have an all around transparent sound and if adjusted properly to your surroundings they rock.

Yeah, I know the higher-end Genelecs are worth the buy, but it'd be total overkill, especially considering I can't afford acoustically treating my room right now. I specifically asked about the Genelec 8020A's because they're smaller sized, meant for smaller rooms and have more room for error.

And btw, you're probably right, after all, the NS10s were intended to be home hi-fi speakers, but I'd rather not take my chances and get something I know'll give me a flat, true reponse

I'm a big fan of the M-audio BX8As. Quite affordable, excellent sound.

You totally missed out on the best budget monitors around...

Event!!

Alp5, Tr-6 and Tr-8 all INSANE.

Nice flat sound. My picks of the budgets and I've heard em all.

Events pretty much win in the budget range. They don't have wicked bass extension, but they do have clarity and will give you a truer sound than any other monitor in the same range.

KRKs budget line (RP*) are not good at all; people just buy them because they're readily available and well marketed. They have a deeper and dirtier bass extension to trick noobs into buying them. Honestly, look at the experience level of people who buy RP*s, and then compare that to those that buy other brands; it speaks for itself. Thats not to say KRK is a bad brand though, the V* series are the next step up and are fantastic monitors.

Alesis you need to hear for yourself. If you A/B them with a decent monitor (BM5A equivalent), you'd have to be partially deaf not to notice how bad they are. Hint: listen to the bass

"Avoid the Behringer Truths?" - They're cheap, you get what you pay for. An 8" unit for $400AUD has to set of some kind of alarm bells when you consider that no other monitor company even attempts to do the same. That said, if youre DJing, and you just want something loud you can't get better than Behringers.

Genelec 8020s are very good, but they're not really for music production - more for TV/Film etc. They're rated to go down to 66hz, but my guess is realistically it would be around 80. Even if they did do 66hz, thats still not low enough for dance music. You would have to combine these with a sub, and the sub costs more than the speakers themselves. ALSO, then you have to worry about translation problems and stereo imaging CRAZINESS. Bass isnt "omni directional", despite the fact that people throw that notion around constantly. If you put a sub next to your right ear youre going to be off balance, it's pretty obvious. Considering that most people will be listening to your tunes on a normal 2 set of speakers, having a sub is just going to mess you up. Hence why not many producers use them - maybe foot pedal activated just for tweaking basses etc.

Avoid Samson Rubicons. They use a cheap ribbon tweeter which really gives the units a distinct sound. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but I can forsee it causing translation problems; most speakers do not have ribbons, let alone cheap ones.

Bottom line: I think you should get Events. TR6s are fantastic for the price. If not events, look into Fostex PM1 or Yamaha HS80M. But, beware, bigger is not better. If you dont have any accoustic treatment in your room, be careful buying anything bigger than 6".

quote:

Originally posted by TwistedDUO Sadly enough, I've been using my Logitech 2.1 computer speaker system for a long time. These things are tanks. The two stereo speakers have been pumping decent and clear for nearly 5 years. The subwoofer has a bass adjustment that allows me to control how much bass is pumping though. I've looked into getting "studio monitors" but they truly don't sound any better (or worse) than what I have now. I know it's cheesy but I don't see the sense in buying an expensive pair of monitors when these do the job just fine.

I guarantee you that if you got a decent set of studio monitors that you would notice a difference.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm Events pretty much win in the budget range. They don't have wicked bass extension, but they do have clarity and will give you a truer sound than any other monitor in the same range. KRKs budget line (RP*) are not good at all; people just buy them because they're readily available and well marketed. They have a deeper and dirtier bass extension to trick noobs into buying them. Honestly, look at the experience level of people who buy RP*s, and then compare that to those that buy other brands; it speaks for itself. Thats not to say KRK is a bad brand though, the V* series are the next step up and are fantastic monitors. Alesis you need to hear for yourself. If you A/B them with a decent monitor (BM5A equivalent), you'd have to be partially deaf not to notice how bad they are. Hint: listen to the bass "Avoid the Behringer Truths?" - They're cheap, you get what you pay for. An 8" unit for $400AUD has to set of some kind of alarm bells when you consider that no other monitor company even attempts to do the same. That said, if youre DJing, and you just want something loud you can't get better than Behringers. Genelec 8020s are very good, but they're not really for music production - more for TV/Film etc. They're rated to go down to 66hz, but my guess is realistically it would be around 80. Even if they did do 66hz, thats still not low enough for dance music. You would have to combine these with a sub, and the sub costs more than the speakers themselves. ALSO, then you have to worry about translation problems and stereo imaging CRAZINESS. Bass isnt "omni directional", despite the fact that people throw that notion around constantly. If you put a sub next to your right ear youre going to be off balance, it's pretty obvious. Considering that most people will be listening to your tunes on a normal 2 set of speakers, having a sub is just going to mess you up. Hence why not many producers use them - maybe foot pedal activated just for tweaking basses etc. Avoid Samson Rubicons. They use a cheap ribbon tweeter which really gives the units a distinct sound. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but I can forsee it causing translation problems; most speakers do not have ribbons, let alone cheap ones. Bottom line: I think you should get Events. TR6s are fantastic for the price. If not events, look into Fostex PM1 or Yamaha HS80M. But, beware, bigger is not better. If you dont have any accoustic treatment in your room, be careful buying anything bigger than 6".

Wow, thanks a bunch man, very informative

I guess I overlooked the events... I'll be sure to go for the TR6 then.

Thanks for all the response everyone.

Would it also be a good idea to get a studio subwoofer, if you are producing club or other music that would normally be played on systems that have a sub?

quote:

Originally posted by tvmann Would it also be a good idea to get a studio subwoofer, if you are producing club or other music that would normally be played on systems that have a sub?

its a great idea

in fact i know many people bash krk rokits for this and that while they are not the best on their own a RP-10 sub rounds up the sound and actually becomes quite a powerful combo and easily beats anything in its price range

my opinion though is like with anything; try before you buy.

listen to those tracks (or snippets of them) on every speaker multiple times till you start noticing differences between them and generally don't listen to whatever salesman has to say before you listen to your music on them


anyway to reply to original post though

i have rokits (rp8s with rp10 sub) so i'm definitely biased

They do have their shortcomings such as slightly muddy mids and highs a bit but this is in comparison to my buddy's Dynaudios but the sub is making a whole word of difference when tweaking low end. Even on Dynaudios while they do go very low for their size its still nothing like warm accurate boom coming out of a sub and this way my mixes translate way better on other systems with a much more accurate representation of everything on low end (mixes from dynaudio come out much cleaner but low end does suffer IMO)

i heard genelecs (really hard on ears IMO), alesis (wayyyyy too boomy), events only heard once while being way too mashed to recall anything but i think i thought they were slightly low end shy and really weird mids

i love my rokit combo and the only combo i would upgrade to at any time these days would be a pair of dynaudios with a matching sub but that's way out of my price range for now

i researched quite a bit on monitors before i made my choice (good it must've taken me 3 or 4 weeks) and after looking at everything at this price range i still got rokits

quote:

Originally posted by tvmann Would it also be a good idea to get a studio subwoofer, if you are producing club or other music that would normally be played on systems that have a sub?

If you read the post above you'll see why a sub is a bad idea in 99% of cases.

Firstly, when you add a sub to an untreated room you will be doing more harm than good. This isn't debateable. More bass will equal more standing waves. More standing waves will equal terrible mixing. This is why most people who know what theyre talking about wont even think about getting a sub. Even 8" monitors in an untreated room is pushing it alot of the time.

Secondly, where does the sub cut out AND where do your speakers cut out? What do you think happens when your sub cuts out at 100hz but your monitors at 45hz? Also, if your sub cuts out too high your stereo image will be f*cked. If you dont position your sub perfectly, your stereo field will be off balance.

Thirdly, most decent monitors should extend down to 50hz or so. They wont ACTUALLY go that low in terms of useability, but neither will many other speakers. The 20hz area isn't really "heard" that much by most people anyway, its too low.

Fourthly, club music normally listened to on a sub? Most "club" music would be listened to on a Hifi or iPod lol. Also, I dont think clubs really utilise subs that much, i've only seen massive PAs. I may well be wrong on this, but it seems logical that clubs cut bass and highs to preserve listeners hearing... hence a sub would be pointless?

Lastly, go find an EDM producer that uses a sub... You'll have trouble. The only time I have heard a pro using a sub was with a foot pedal to turn it on and off.

No sub will compensate for the poor design of the RP series :P
Adding a sub to an RP8 sounds ridiculous too.

If you chose to ignore what i've said anyway and want a sub, get the Blue Sky Media Desk 2.1 system. The sub is basically part of the crossover (sub cut at 100, sats at 100 = good), rather than just a tacky add on.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm If you read the post above you'll see why a sub is a bad idea in 99% of cases. More bass will equal more standing waves.

i'm not talking about MORE bass i'm talking about the fact that you'll hear it more precisely and you'll actually hear bigger difference between kicks and tiny differences between bass lines and i personally find it very much beneficial

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm More standing waves will equal terrible mixing. This is why most people who know what theyre talking about wont even think about getting a sub. Even 8" monitors in an untreated room is pushing it alot of the time.

true to a point

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm Secondly, where does the sub cut out AND where do your speakers cut out? What do you think happens when your sub cuts out at 100hz but your monitors at 45hz? Also, if your sub cuts out too high your stereo image will be f*cked. If you dont position your sub perfectly, your stereo field will be off balance.

rp8 and rp10 are matched, that's exactly why they make them matched and with adjustable crossover

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm Thirdly, most decent monitors should extend down to 50hz or so. They wont ACTUALLY go that low in terms of useability, but neither will many other speakers.

HUH ? i really don't know where are you going with this one

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm The 20hz area isn't really "heard" that much by most people anyway, its too low.

its not heard its felt

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm Fourthly, club music normally listened to on a sub? Most "club" music would be listened to on a Hifi or iPod lol.

I recall a LOT of home stereos come with subs these days, so do computer speakers. with ipods it depends on headphones and some do have quite a stunning bass for a headphone (HD25s)

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm Also, I dont think clubs really utilise subs that much, i've only seen massive PAs. I may well be wrong on this, but it seems logical that clubs cut bass and highs to preserve listeners hearing... hence a sub would be pointless?

CLUBS CUT BASS ???

high frequencies kill your hearing not bass

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm Lastly, go find an EDM producer that uses a sub... You'll have trouble. The only time I have heard a pro using a sub was with a foot pedal to turn it on and off.

i'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find somebody, but i'll agree that a good tuned room will be far better than a sub

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm No sub will compensate for the poor design of the RP series :P Adding a sub to an RP8 sounds ridiculous too.

you clearly haven't heard or did any research on a combo on their own rp8s were pretty disappointing IMO but sub made such a difference its really a world of difference

you don't like the speakers thats fine but i would think that krk has way more happy customers than any other brand in this price range

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm If you chose to ignore what i've said anyway and want a sub, get the Blue Sky Media Desk 2.1 system. The sub is basically part of the crossover (sub cut at 100, sats at 100 = good).

that's an ok combo heard good things about it

sorry if i come across harsh, i kind of have a pet hate for krk rps

home stereo subs might be rated to go down to like 40hz or something but we all know how far they'll really go

you have valid points, i guess the sub vs. not sub is a matter of oppinion and i'm highly oppinionated! i knew clubs cut highs, but wasnt sure about the bass. on that note, how low do typical PA's go?

i have my mackie hr824s are hooked up to some random Velodyne CHT sub.. and i don't care what anyone says theyre staying that way, the hr824s have no bass my old computer speakers from 5 years with a sub have better bass. before i got the sub i was overloading the 824's all the time just trying to hear the bass loud.

sure not as nice as getting the hrs-120 sub thats matched for them.. but thats another grand.. someday maybe. ive gotten used to it and thats what matters.. i also have a foot pedal for turning the sub on/off.

quote:

Originally posted by rulzz its not heard its felt

Only if you can drive a 20hz tone with a high enough amplitude and this of course depends entirely on whether the low frequency driver (or more appropriately sub woofer) can handle the reflex. Most nearfield monitors with low frequency drivers that are 8 inchs in diameter and smaller could not reproduce a 20hz tone - not to any noticeable degree anyway - even if the manufacturer claims the monitor has a frequency response that goes down to 20hz.

Doesn't matter if you have a 1000watt power amp behind it (you would most likely destroy the driver trying to do this so I wouldn't).

quote:

high frequencies kill your hearing not bass

Absolutely wrong. Low frequency sound at high amplitude is just as bad for your ears but in a different way. Any sort of sound, irrespective of frequency at a high enough amplitude will start to destroy parts of the inner ear - the scillia will go first. Pain threshold is a different story. You will probably find high frequency sound more intolerable at for very high amplitude but to suggest this is damaging to your ear and a high amplitude 200hz tone isnt is just wrong. Just synthesize a 200hz tone in something like soundforge and slowly increase the gain. It wont take long before your ears fecking cane.

Hell you could do this with a lower frequency tone, but your monitors would struggle to reproduce it acurately beyond a certain point because the woofer excursion will start to become so great you may even blow the driver. Mostly a problem with drivers and amps that aren't matched well.

So I've been reading up in reviews and whatnot, would it be overkill to go for the TR-8's instead of the TR-6's in my untreated room? Just as a side note, you can hear kinda nasty "fluttering" reverb or delay when i yell or clap in the room, if that makes any difference.

I just got the tr8's,
they fucking OWN, bass is flat as hell.
It was either tr8s or the maudio bxa8's but I didnt like the high end on them, but the tr8's kick so much ass.. the bass hole is in the front so it doesnt matter how close you have them to a wall, in fact they can even be inside a wall...
get the tr8s, you wont regret it.

quote:

Originally posted by cocaine white So I've been reading up in reviews and whatnot, would it be overkill to go for the TR-8's instead of the TR-6's in my untreated room? Just as a side note, you can hear kinda nasty "fluttering" reverb or delay when i yell or clap in the room, if that makes any difference.

Would the 6.5 inch cone give you any more clarity at lower levels? If so, would it be significant enough that you could get away without any sound treatment? I doubt that either one would be true in this case, so I believe that it comes down to the 35Hz vs. 45Hz bass response. Chances are you'll low-cut the capabilities of the TR-8, or it might not even be enough if your work will be heard in a theater or else were as it was stated before.

Shit dude, if you clap in your room and theres an echo you need to sort out the acoustics in your room. Depending on the material of the wall surfaces you will probably get bass standing waves if you punch out low frequency sound at high enough amplitude. I know that in my old room, I got terrible bass standing waves from my Dynaudio BM5as (quoted as having a frequency response that extends to 50hz). This I think was due mostly to the fact that my room was small, one wall was hollow and one of my speakers was about 4 inches from a side wall.

I never really thought they sounded right until I moved house. Now I'm in a much bigger room and can put my monitors far away from walls. And all the walls are solid and I have 2 bass traps. Now they sound fairly sweet.

But really, if you play your speakers in a tiled bathroom, you may as well be mixing with a short plate reverb on everything.

Its a bit like mics - 90% of the sound you get is what the source sounds like in your room. Now I am beginning to think that if you want to get a great monitoring/instrument recording setup - more of your money should go into treating the room as opposed to going on the gear.

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