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Individualism

How does individualism affect society?

Re: Individualism

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Originally posted by Marc Summers How does individualism affect society?

How doesn't individualism affect society? That's about as broad and open-ended of a question as I've seen in quite while. Can you elaborate or is this something for class?

Re: Re: Individualism

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Originally posted by Shakka How doesn't individualism affect society? That's about as broad and open-ended of a question as I've seen in quite while. Can you elaborate or is this something for class?

It's not for class!

I realize it's fairly open-ended. I'm giving you the option to pick what you want to discuss. I guess I'll kick start this. I'm trying hard not to fish for certain types of answers, so bear with me.

Does individualism put the progression of oneself above the progression of society? Are they interconnected in any way, or is the idea of individualism a contradiction of society?

Re: Re: Re: Individualism

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Originally posted by Marc Summers It's not for class! I realize it's fairly open-ended. I'm giving you the option to pick what you want to discuss. I guess I'll kick start this. I'm trying hard not to fish for certain types of answers, so bear with me. Does individualism put the progression of oneself above the progression of society? Are they interconnected in any way, or is the idea of individualism a contradiction of society?

I would think that the progression of society is indicative of the progression of individuals within said society no?

Individualism affects society by regulating silt levels in nearby streams and ponds.

Individualism = progress & prosperity (for most)

Collectivism = stagnation & misery (for most)

The most collectivist nation on the world today is North Korea, and you can't see their country at night.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Individualism = progress & prosperity (for most) Collectivism = stagnation & misery (for most) The most collectivist nation on the world today is North Korea, and you can't see their country at night.

You have elegantly managed to neglect the fact that the second biggest economy in the world is a highly collectivist culture. Japanese's people self image is tightly linked to society and their family. A japanese person does not define himself/herself in terms of their personality but in terms of their relationships. I believe what your getting at is capitalism/socialism but i believe that the thread starter is referring to individualism/collectivism in culture. They are related but different. Other collectivist cultures: China, India, many South American countries, many southern European countries.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Individualism

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r I would think that the progression of society is indicative of the progression of individuals within said society no?

I agree but the difference lies in the motives and the end results. For example in a collectivistic culture one may hope to advance in a trade to benefit the group and with this progression of that particular person society also progresses. In an individualistic culture on the other hand a person might want to advance only in order to advance his own interests, and society advances as a byproduct. The difference i believe is the methods used for advancement will be more rapacious and avaricious in an individualistic society. Obviously this is all in theory since no culture is completely individualist or collectivistic but an amalgamation of the two.

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Originally posted by venomX You have elegantly managed to neglect the fact that the second biggest economy in the world is a highly collectivist culture. Japanese's people self image is tightly linked to society and their family. A japanese person does not define himself/herself in terms of their personality but in terms of their relationships. I believe what your getting at is capitalism/socialism but i believe that the thread starter is referring to individualism/collectivism in culture. They are related but different. Other collectivist cultures: China, India, many South American countries, many southern European countries.

Couldn't have said it better!

Anyway, individualism for a short while after September 11th was non-existent. Everyone was helping each other (Except the Arabs ) and being nice, volunteers were popping up in various organizations. Then... It just stopped and people started minding their own business.

The only time people go to town meetings in my area is when they are affected. In Middletown (NJ), they were going to give random drug tests to students in high school. All of a sudden, a board of ed meeting that normally consisted of 50 people, turned into a mob of close to 1,000.

If 1,000 people went to any kind of town meeting... every time, we'd have ourselves a near-perfect society. The last town meeting there were 15 people, not including the councilmen and women. How can the opinion of only a few people decide for the whole town? It's crazy.

Re: Re: Re: Individualism

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Originally posted by Marc Summers Does individualism put the progression of oneself above the progression of society?

Yes, its in our nature to climb to the top of the heap. In some individuals it is a higher drive to do so than others, some simply climb to the point where they feel most comfortable or feel they can control.

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Are they interconnected in any way, or is the idea of individualism a contradiction of society?

I would say no throughout the history of humanity, current era, no as well.

No, because our idea of individualism is somewhat distorted in contemporary society to being conformity, often under the guise of non-conformity in terms of dress, attire, music, preferences and behaviour amongst our peers rather than develop our own genuine individuality which isn't reliant on any single, other outside influence. You simply cannot do that, it doesn't exist anywhere.
We no longer have a 'tribe' so to speak and instead form our own little sub-cultures if we feel we have to belong to something in terms of a culture. Sporting clubs, gangs, hobby groups etc, all form the modern day tribe of 'individuals', who may not conform to the norm of society, but they will always conform to the standards of their peer group in some way.

quote:

Originally posted by venomX You have elegantly managed to neglect the fact that the second biggest economy in the world is a highly collectivist culture. Japanese's people self image is tightly linked to society and their family. A japanese person does not define himself/herself in terms of their personality but in terms of their relationships. I believe what your getting at is capitalism/socialism but i believe that the thread starter is referring to individualism/collectivism in culture. They are related but different. Other collectivist cultures: China, India, many South American countries, many southern European countries.

Ah good point. The way I see it...Voluntary collectivism is perfectly fine, and should be encouraged whenever possible! It's the "class war" ideology (and the central planning that comes with it) that does the most damage to humanity. Cooperation and altruism on a voluntary basis is a beautiful thing.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Ah good point. The way I see it...Voluntary collectivism is perfectly fine, and should be encouraged whenever possible! It's the "class war" ideology (and the central planning that comes with it) that does the most damage to humanity. Cooperation and altruism on a voluntary basis is a beautiful thing.

So, there isn't a class war in the United States?

A class war? Well it's a matter of perspective of course...but to the vast majority of people the answer is most definately NO!

There are people in this country who are much, much, MUCH richer than me, but I could never consider myself "at war" with any of them unless they physically had a chain around my neck and were using theft and violence to achieve their goals. The only institution that comes close to this description today is our government....not the millionaire businessman with a "help wanted" in his window.

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Originally posted by Marc Summers So, there isn't a class war in the United States?

There's always been a 'class war' of some sort in the world ever since humanity was running around in skins and a sharp stick was high tech, thinking its only endemic to the united states is quite quaint. It's in our nature to just assert ourselves in the world in some form as a way of finding where we fit in and belong in society.
It's called ambition.
Even if its mostly harmless or part of survival everyone has some degree of ambition to feather their nest and even if they don't desire offspring, want a little better than the year before to make it more comfortable. Somewhere deep down inside it's wired into us as surely as we have cognitive thought, just is that old friend, green eyed jealousy I suppose.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt Ah good point. The way I see it...Voluntary collectivism is perfectly fine, and should be encouraged whenever possible! It's the "class war" ideology (and the central planning that comes with it) that does the most damage to humanity. Cooperation and altruism on a voluntary basis is a beautiful thing.

But then again you could argue that to some extent that 'voluntary collectivism' is the product of centuries of government and society semi-forced socialism. It has been present for so many years that it has been ingrained into the cultures. Take japan for example, it may be voluntary collectivism now, but in the past not accepting said collectivism would have ostracized you and you would've run into a lot of trouble. To some extent the move towards voluntary collectivism has to have at least some incentive be it negative or positive.

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