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*UPDATE* A rush to Judge - Another Lie from US Admin?
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| America today blamed Iran for the deaths of 170 US troops inside Iraq, accusing Teheran of supplying insurgents with increasingly sophisticated bombs,� reports the neocon-infested UK Telegraph, a trusty propaganda tool. �Senior defense officials in Baghdad said that Iranian-supplied �explosively formed projectiles� were frequently being used against coalition forces� and �the �highest levels� of Iran�s regime were responsible for giving them to Shia militias in Iraq.�  Although the Telegraph does not mention what particular Shi�a group would use the purported Iranian �explosively formed projectiles� against American troops, we must assume they are making reference to Muqtada al-Sadr�s Mahdi army. In general, Shi�a militias are too busy killing Sunnis, and vice versa, although late last month the killing of five American soldiers at a supposedly secure U.S. facility in Karbala was blamed on �Iranian intelligence agents in conjunction with Iraq�s Shiite Mahdi Army militia,� according to the Examiner. For some unexplained reason these militant Shi�ites decided to dump the bodies of their victims in the town of Mahawil, a predominantly Sunni area. But never mind. As the photo above supposedly demonstrates, the Pentagon has seized a number of 81mm mortar rounds, used as roadside bombs. �These bombs are specially designed to penetrate heavily armored military vehicles and are capable of crippling the US army�s main battle tank, the Abrams M1,� the Telegraph ominously reports, or rather reads from a Pentagon script. �They have killed 170 US troops since June 2004, according to the American officials. They added that some weapons have been captured and they bore the hallmarks of having been manufactured in Iran�. Many were made as recently as last year�ruling out the possibility that they could have been left over from the many arms caches scattered across Iraq by Saddam Hussein�s regime.� Of course, as this is a sloppy neocon ruse, as per usual, there is a problem here. Can you guess what it is? If you guessed the date, you win a Cupie doll. For some reason the geniuses at the Pentagon have failed to explain why the Iranians used a date from the Christian Gregorian calendar and not one from the Islamic Persian calendar. According to the Muslim calendar, the date stenciled on this mortar shell should read 1427, not 2006. And why did Iran, a country speaking and writing in Persian, a language written in a version of the Arabic script, decide to label their shells in English? Maybe they thought it would fool the infidels? I�m not taking the bait. As usual, this attempt to frame Muslims stinks of neocon sloppiness. Once again, the neocons blow it. Not that it particularly matters, as most Americans are oblivious and, besides, millions of them still think Osama and Saddam are twin brothers. |
it is possible Iran accounted for the possibility that the weapons would get seized and printed western dating on the weapons bound for Iraq
not saying that is the case, but certainly something to consider
A rush to Judge - Another Lie from US Admin?
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| Originally posted by Dopey it is possible Iran accounted for the possibility that the weapons would get seized and printed western dating on the weapons bound for Iraq not saying that is the case, but certainly something to consider |
How the US is doing Iran's killing in Iraq
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| America Clutches at Iranian Arms // A New Argument Found in Iraq for War Against Iran Yesterday Tehran categorically denied information pointing to its involvement in supplies of arms to Iraq. The statement from the Iranian side came after American military spokesmen in Baghdad unveiled examples of Iranian weapons that had been seized in Iraq. The attempt to blame Iran for America's failures in Iraq was met with bewilderment not only in Tehran but by leading Democrats in the US Congress. Many observers believe that the Bush administration is merely continuing its search for a pretext on which to go to war against Iran. Iranian Explosives Versus American Armor Sunday's demonstration of the "Iranian trophies" took place in strictest confidence in Baghdad's heavily-fortified Green Zone, where the American general headquarters is located. The members of the media who were invited to the presentation were forbidden to take photographs or videos of the objects on display, and no recording devices were allowed. The journalists were also not informed of the names of the military experts and representatives of the American command in Iraq who spoke at the press conference. However, the organizers of the conference furnished the assembled journalists with illustrated materials about Iran's "subversive role" in Iraq, including CDs with photographs of examples of Iranian weapons that have been used against the American forces in Iraq. The American military spokesmen also pointedly asserted that the Iranian arms on display were only a small portion of the enormous arsenal that was produced in Iran and secretly funneled to Iraq. "There is a vast difference between what we know and what we can show," said one of the army's experts, adding that a more detailed disclosure could play into the hands of Iraqi insurgents. Among the Iranian weapons in the presentation were ground-to-air Mishag-1 rockets, grenades, pieces from 60-mm and 81-mm mortar launchers, and charges for launching mortars. The journalists were also shown photographs of boxes of Iranian dynamite that were labeled in Farsi and testimonials from two Iranians from the elite Kuds unit of the Revolutionary Guards who were arrested in northern Iraq during a raid by American forces on the town of Irbil. However, the centerpiece of the presentation was a new generation of shaped-charge projectile: a mine with extra-destructive explosive power that is filled with small copper pellets capable of piercing armor. According to the American experts, these Iranian-made devices are used by Iraqi militants to mine roads and have been employed to devastating effect against American Abrams tanks and armored Humvees. They are blamed for 170 of the 3,400 casualties suffered by US forces in Iraq since 2003. The Meaning of "Guided Chaos" According to the American side, the Iranian weapons that find their way to Iraq are being used to create a situation of "guided chaos" that is being controlled by Tehran. According to the explanations offered by the Americans, the elements of this guided chaos include attacks on American and Iraqi soldiers, stoking of tensions between Shi'ites and Sunnis, and terrorist acts against the civilian population, which are aimed at proving America's inability to ensure security in Iraq. Washington claims that Tehran's main goal in pursuing a strategy of guided chaos is to force the Bush administration to become ever more bogged down in Iraq. However, Iran's desire to influence the situation in its neighbor notwithstanding, observers in the region maintain that attempts to present Iran as the chief driving force behind the carnage in Iraq, as well as the source of the relentless wave of terrorism convulsing the country, is groundless. Independent observers have pointed out that, during the recent demonstration of Iranian weaponry found in Iraq, the American representatives relented slightly on Washington's previous position, which maintained that Shi'ite Iran was supposedly supporting the Sunni insurgents in Iraq, who have destroyed the largest number of American forces and equipment. According to the new version of events, the Iranian weapons are being supplied to the militants by the anti-American Shi'ite leader Muktada Sadr, who is in close contact with Iranian agents. Noting the flaws in the idea of "guided chaos," many Iraqi politicians point out that the US is becoming increasing concerned by the close ties between Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki and Tehran. "The Iraqi government does not consider Iran an enemy. The Americans are trying to prove to the Iraqis that they are speaking out against Iran not only because of its nuclear program but because of what is going on in Iraq," said Mahmoud Otman, a member of the Iraqi parliament. "There is no proof that the Iranian government is involved. The weapons could have been illegally smuggled into Iraq," said Iranian legislator Neda Sudani. According to the American side, the demonstration of Iranian weapons used by Iraqi insurgents was supposed to convince Baghdad to turn away from Tehran and to quit what the US sees as the unholy political partnership between Iran and Iraq. "It's All Untrue" As could have been expected, Tehran firmly denied the allegation that it is inflaming the conflict in Iraq and furnishing arms to Iraqi militants. "The statements made by the Americans over the last several months, claiming that Iran has something to do with the current woes in Iraq, are entirely groundless," said official Iranian Foreign Affairs Ministry spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini yesterday. Also yesterday Iran denied information that members of the international terrorist organization al-Qaeda are hiding on its territory. "At this moment, not a single member of al-Qaeda is in Iran. In the past several of them were being detained, deported, or jailed," said Iranian Intelligence Minister Qolamhoseyn Mohseni Ezhei in response to a report that appeared in the newspaper The Washington Post last week concerning the US administration's intent to accuse Iran of concealing the al-Qaeda operatives Suleiman Abu Ghaith and a son of Osama bin Laden. However, the circumstances that may prove most dampening for the Bush administration's fighting spirit were the critical responses from the US Congress to the demonstration of the Iranian arsenal. "I take all of this with a hefty dose of skepticism, given previous experience with similar operations," said Christopher Dodd, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, in a statement that reflected a widespread opinion among the Democrats. John Kerry, another well-known Democrat, said that although Iran's involvement in the situation in Iraq is beyond a doubt, it is necessary to talk the matter through with Iran rather than jump into a confrontation. In the opinion of observers, despite the absence of the necessary support from the Democrats, representatives from the Bush administration are going to continue their search for a pretext on which to attack Iran and are ready to go for the brass ring. That was made abundantly clear in a comment published last week in Newsweek from Hillary Mann, a former member of the US National Security Council: "They intend to be as provocative as possible and to force the Iranians to do something that will oblige America to retaliate," she said. An editorial in the same issue of Newsweek opined that "there is already a covert war between the US and Iran taking place in Iraq." European Union Introduces Sanctions Against Iran Yesterday the foreign ministers from the 27 countries of the EU agreed at a meeting in Brussels to impose sanctions against Iran in response to Tehran's refusal to cease work on uranium enrichment as demanded by UN Security Council resolution #1737, which was adopted in December of last year. The sanctions will take effect no earlier than the beginning of February, after the European Commission formally declares its intent to implement them. In a statement, the EU foreign ministers expressed their readiness to continue discussions with Tehran about international control over the Iranian nuclear program. "We are in favor of continuing a dialog, and Iran knows what we want to achieve," said senior EU representative for common foreign policy and security Javier Solana. |
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| How the US is doing Iran's killing in Iraq By Dahr Jamail and Ali al-Fadhily NAJAF, Iraq - New evidence is emerging on the ground of an Iranian hand in growing violence within Iraq, but not necessarily as the US claims Tehran is involved, that is, by providing arms to Shi'ite Muslim militants. The massacre in Najaf last month indicates that Iran could be working through the Iraqi government, local leaders in Najaf say. The killing of 263 people in Najaf by Iraqi and US forces on January 29 provoked outrage and vows of revenge among residents in and around the sacred Shi'ite city in the south. The killings have deepened a split among Shi'ites. Iran is predominantly Shi'ite, one of the two main groupings within Islam along with the Sunnis. Iraq has for the first time a Shi'ite-dominated government, comprising groups that have been openly supportive of Iran. The people killed in Najaf were mostly Shi'ites from the Hawatim tribe that opposes the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq as well as the Da'wa Party. These two pro-Iranian groups control the local government in Najaf and the central government in Baghdad. The Najaf attack has provoked strong reactions among members of the Hawatim tribe and among other Shi'ite groups who are not loyal to Iran - and who became the target in those killings. An attack on a local tribal leader led to an assault on members of the tribe by US, British and Iraqi forces. The tribe was described by government officials as a "messianic cult". Abid Ali, who witnessed the Najaf fighting, said a procession of about 200 pilgrims from the Hawatim tribe had arrived in the Zarqa area near Najaf to celebrate the Ashura festival. After a confrontation over the procession, Iraqi soldiers at a checkpoint shot dead Hajj Sa'ad Sa'ad Nayif al-Hatemi, chief of the tribe, as he and his wife sat in their car. Members of the tribe then attacked the checkpoint to avenge the death of their chief. "It was after this that the Iraqi army called in the Americans, and the planes began bombing civilians," Ali said. "It was a massacre. Now I believe internal Shi'ite fighting has entered a very dangerous phase." Ali said most people in the area believe the US military was told by Iraqi security forces loyal to the pro-Iranian government in Baghdad that "terrorists" or the "messianic cult" were attacking Najaf. They say the misinformation was intended to mislead occupation forces into attacking the tribe. Many Shi'ites in the southern parts of the country and in Baghdad now say they had been fooled earlier by US promises to help them, but that the Najaf massacre has dramatically changed their views. Significantly, the Association of Muslim Scholars, a group of Sunni Muslims headed by Dr Harith al-Dhari, issued a statement condemning the Iraqi-US military attack in Najaf against the Hawatim tribe. The statement, which seeks to bridge a Shi'ite-Sunni divide, denounced the killing of dozens of women and children and added, "It was an act of vengeance and political termination." Jaafar al-Jawadi, a political analyst from Baghdad, said the Americans "were misled, and their last move in Najaf shows how smart the Iranians are in leading the Americans deeper into the Iraqi sands". "I really admire the way the Iranians are dealing with the situation in a professional way while the Americans are walking with their eyes closed," Jawadi said. "They are losing the last Iraqi fort they were hiding behind, and that was the peaceful way Arab Shi'ites were dealing with the occupation." Jawadi, who is a former Shi'ite politician, said he once believed in US promises of liberation for Iraqis, particularly the Shi'ite population. Like many other Iraqis, he now believes that the United States has been used by the pro-Iranian government in Baghdad to carry out attacks against Shi'ite tribes in southern Iraq who have recently become more anti-occupation. Talib Ahmad, a lawyer and human-rights activist in Najaf, said, "I do not really understand what those Americans are doing because now they are just like an elephant in a china shop, and everything they do is terribly wrong, as if they are committing suicide. "Iran is benefiting from that for sure. Americans are simply fighting for Iran, which appears to be the winner in Iraq after all," said Ahmad. Many Iraqis are amazed at the unlimited support the US administration has been presenting to what many now call an Iranian-Iraqi government. The new US condemnation of Iran could be a first sign that the United States is getting wise to the fact that it is being fooled by Tehran. The US administration is, however, pointing the finger at Iran, and not at the government in Baghdad that it props up. |
This Post is related to this........
The Iran Connection is a facade
Sorry I didn't ask you. Go create another stupid poll-thread on that and cry.
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| Originally posted by star-traveller Sorry I didn't ask you. Go create another stupid poll-thread on that and cry. |
I think the US is trying to make-up a fake proof of Iran's connection to Iraq and have a reason for the UN to attack it in the future.
Do you have anything to say on that topic?
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| Originally posted by star-traveller Do you have anything to say on that topic? |
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| Originally posted by star-traveller I think the US is trying to make-up a fake proof of Iran's connection to Iraq and have a reason for the UN to attack it in the future. Do you have anything to say on that topic? |
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| Originally posted by LazFX This Post is related to this........ The Iran Connection is a facade |
Sort of ties into my suspicians that I mentioned there and the source I was looking at there.
Well, before it went to hell and name calling... such is PDD.
Think we're going to see some kind of action in Iran coming up to the nuke inspections deadline that ends either this week or next. Probably open up with UN sanctions if they're not playing nice and well all know the rest.
could it be that the media is making the case for war more than the Administration?
i don't know just a thought.
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| Originally posted by Q5echo could it be that the media is making the case for war more than the Administration? i don't know just a thought. |
There will always be an element of the ever present sensationalism in any story with the media, its what sells, its what people want to read. I'm even slightly sceptical too of the evidence there with the munitions being labelled the way they are, it might just mean they're from export stocks rather than domestic military.
I don't know!
Heck does anyone know how Iran labels its export munitions?
I disliked the idea of the US fiddling around for evidence though in the first place, just stinks too much of the last time they where doing that and came up with nothing in Iraq. And after all, the Iranians aren't stupid, arrogant maybe, but I'm not so sure they'd be keen to pull the US's tail either way with any kind of evidence.
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| Originally posted by Lilith There will always be an element of the ever present sensationalism in any story with the media, its what sells, its what people want to read. I'm even slightly sceptical too of the evidence there with the munitions being labelled the way they are, it might just mean they're from export stocks rather than domestic military. I don't know! Heck does anyone know how Iran labels its export munitions? I disliked the idea of the US fiddling around for evidence though in the first place, just stinks too much of the last time they where doing that and came up with nothing in Iraq. And after all, the Iranians aren't stupid, arrogant maybe, but I'm not so sure they'd be keen to pull the US's tail either way with any kind of evidence. |
but now, with what we know..... I can agree with my esteemed colleague from the Land Down Under.
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| Originally posted by Dopey it is possible Iran accounted for the possibility that the weapons would get seized and printed western dating on the weapons bound for Iraq |
In Israel they use the Hebrew calendar for all official government work, but all civil life uses the Gregorian calendar.
The military also uses the Gregorian calendar on armaments and so forth; however arms made for Israel usually have Hebrew characters on them.
...
Of course the official Iranian reply to this was, just like Lazfx; "How can you trust a regime known for fabricating evidence".
Although I've had a deeper suspicion all along that Iran is sending arms, men, and money to Iraqis (simply because they have been caught doing this by Israel in the Palestinian and Lebanese areas). However, the USA will need more than just this if they want a just causa belli in my book.
I'm holding my tongue on this one for a little while longer. I've got about a dozen or so websites and sources that have quite a bit to say about this story and "evidence" against Iran, but I want to wait a wee bit longer to hear both sides before saying anything further.
I'm pretty damn skeptical, suffice it to say, and this is most definitely NOT a job done by the Press alone (except writer Gordon from the NYTimes who broke this story last Saturday, and who's the very same fuck who helped Judy Miller with her WMD Iraq stories), as there is plenty of orchestration by this Adminstration as well. But I'll leave it at that for now and see how this completely unfolds.
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| Originally posted by Yoepus |
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| Originally posted by LazFX damn they should really ban you for just being ignorant |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer oh stfu lets not get into the banning talks you racist yank. |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer oh stfu lets not get into the banning talks you racist yank. |
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| No Argumenta Ad Hominem: Hopefully, this is just temporary, but let's try to avoid any name-calling and/or personal attacks. We're here to discuss about politics, not to show how many insults we know in a determined language. At the slightest provocation, the necessary measures will be taken to solve the problem. |
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| Originally posted by Dopey www.tranceaddict.com/forums/showthr...7&forumid=66&s= |
Top general casts doubt on Tehran's link to Iraq militias
More news ..... Again with a Top Brass going against the Grain of El Busho'
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| WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace appeared Tuesday to question Bush administration assertions that the Iranian government is supplying weapons to Shiite militant groups in Iraq. "We know that the explosively formed penetrators are manufactured in Iran," Pace told Voice of America during a trip to Australia about what senior military officials call EFPs. "What I would not say is that the Iranian government per se knows about this. It is clear that Iranians are involved and it is clear that materials from Iran are involved, but I would not say, based on what I know, that the Iranian government clearly knows or is complicit," Pace said. (Watch other commanders left out of the loop ) Senior military officials said Sunday that EFPs, which can punch holes in armored vehicles, are made in such a way that they can be traced to Iran. They blamed EFPs for at least 170 coalition fatalities, though they offered no indication of how they came up with that figure. White House spokesman Tony Snow on Tuesday portrayed the general's comments as in line with the administration's viewpoint. "He says they exist, correct?" he asked CNN's Ed Henry, who had questioned whether the administration was speaking with one voice. "There are Iranians in Iraq. There's no question about that, correct? So, where's the credibility problem?" Henry pointed out that Pace was questioning the Iranian government's putative role in the weapons, not the fact that the weapons may have been made in Iran. To that, Snow said, "The Quds force is part of the Iranian government. The Quds force is behind it, is associated with it." (Watch Henry's exchange with Snow ) The U.S. military has said the munitions are being provided to Shiite groups in Iraq by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's Quds force, which answers directly to Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. The military officials said a senior operations officer for the Quds force was among several Iranian officers arrested in Irbil -- in Iraq's Kurdish region -- in the past few weeks. Political maneuvering also alleged According to the U.S. military, other Iranian officers have provided information that Iran is arming a prominent Iraqi political organization. Those officers were detained during a December raid on the Baghdad compound of Abdul Aziz Hakim, the head of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, a powerful Shiite political group with close ties to Iran, the U.S. military said. The Baghdad raid also netted documents that confirmed the arms sale, the U.S. military said. Officials with the political organization said the munitions were used for security purposes, an assertion disputed by U.S. military officials, who said the mortars and sniper rifles were not intended to be used for self-defense. The purported credibility problem alluded to by Snow was deepened for some by the fact that the senior military officials who presented their evidence on Sunday did so anonymously and off camera. "I get a little skeptical about that kind of information," Democratic Sen. Christopher Dodd, a 2008 presidential hopeful, told CNN on Tuesday. Snow dismissed that concern as unfounded. He added that he had just spoken by telephone with Pace, who told him he and White House officials are on the same page. Pace was en route back to the United States and unavailable to reporters. His comments came a day after an official with the Iranian Embassy in Baghdad rejected the administration's assertions of Iranian involvement in Iraq. "It's all lies and it's not true at all," Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini told CNN. "The American administration has made many mistakes in Iraq and now they want to use Iran as a scapegoat." Senators see echoes of Iraq run-up In an interview Friday with National Public Radio, Iranian Ambassador to the U.N. Javad Zarif said Iran has provided no weapons to Iraqi insurgents and does not want to. In the United States, some Iraq war critics likened the Bush administration's highlighting of Iranian involvement in Iraq to the administration's run-up to the war in Iraq, contending officials are attempting a find a reason to invade Iran. The administration denies this. In an interview on Monday with C-SPAN, Bush said the United States is committed to resolving the impasse over Iran's nuclear program diplomatically. "We've got a comprehensive policy aimed to solve this peacefully," he said. Sen. Ron Wyden, an Oregon Democrat, was not persuaded. "That was said repeatedly before the effort was made to go to war with Iraq," said Wyden. Wyden, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said Bush administration officials have promised -- and postponed -- a briefing for lawmakers on Iranian links to the Shiite militias blamed for attacks on U.S. troops and the country's Sunni population. "I want the administration to deliver the full briefing that they promised, the one that's been put off time and time again now, so we can really get at the facts," he said. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told reporters Tuesday that the evidence of Iranian government involvement in Iraq was "very, very weak," adding, "If they are involved, let's see the facts." SOURCE |
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