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Need soundcard with many inputs

Im looking for a sound card between �100 - �225 with as may inputs as possible (want to use cubase v3 external instrument in for my synths) - ideally balanced but I wont have to run long leads so its not too bad.

DOnt mind the idea of second hand so more expensive options with not too high ebay value would be good too

Looking at:

Delta 1010
Tascam FW1804
Terratec Phase 88 or Phase 88 rack

I run XP pro, cubase v3 on a AMD 3500+

Do the TA'ers have any advise or suggestions or cards i should avoid?

FJ

Look into a Motu Ultralite, A buddy of mine recomended it and its the best ive seen. Other than this I would recomend the ECHO 8 or 16 er somthing. But they are firewire.

I really dig the Ultralite. You can find a 1010 for pretty cheap second hand, but I think the quality of the Ultralite is worth the extra few bucks. You can find it in most stores for around $500.

MOTU Ultralite is �389.99 sterling in the UK at least (not inclusive of shipping). Its almost double this guy's budget.

Focusrite Saffire LE is �224.99 and gets you 6 ins and 10 outs. Its pretty good for the money, but I won't kid you - if you are fanatical about specs you really want the Saffire Pro 26 I/O if you are in the market for a Focusrite card. All the others are just lower spec derivatives of this card.

If you find yourself wanting to spend over �500 on a card then you have a whole load of choice but then you are close to RME Fireface 400 territory.

You may want to consider the EMU 1616M for �269.99 - you get bundles of connections and ADAT/lightpipe. In its price bracket, it is one of the best there is. You can of course get alot better but it will simply cost you alot more.

I have a Delta 1010 which I wish to sell. Its in near perfect condition and comes with all the original software, manuals and its original box (the box is slightly tatty though). I wish to sell mainly because I play guitar and I am sick of not having an instrument level line in.

I use to have an m-audio 1010 they anren't bad but know this:
1 in 5 m-audio comes back to the shop within 3 month of purchase. Some unlucky customer discover the problem even later and can't get a replacement only a repair. Same applies to focusrite and generally in that price range the problem is common so if you go for this option buy it in a store so you can get immediate replacement or from a trusted source. Edirol works well and we actually get very little returns.

My advice to you is to wait and get a serious audio interface like the fireface 400. It's an exellent card worth every penny.

If you don't want to do that (it's totally understandable!)

-Focusrite SAFFIRE LE very good for that price �218
-Edirol FA101 ( I never had one returned ) but it's not my favourite
-1010 m audio as i said before not bad, 8 analog in 8 analog out. its good pci card with breakout box but very far from having the converters of the fireface 400 ( if you recording is what you're really after then wait and save money)

around �200 most soundcards will have converters of the same range. just choose one with enough inputs.

Maybe derivative can make you a good deal.

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative MOTU Ultralite is �389.99 sterling in the UK at least (not inclusive of shipping). Its almost double this guy's budget.

Sorry. I'm just really over recommending people crap just because it fits their budget. Saving an extra couple hundred bucks isn't hard.

quote:

Originally posted by No Left Turn Sorry. I'm just really over recommending people crap just because it fits their budget. Saving an extra couple hundred bucks isn't hard.

Have to agree with that sentiment. I don't think the price range quoted in the original post is reasonable for the desired product type and quality.

That being said, there certainly *are* products in that price range, whatever the quality may be, and I'm not familiar enough with the ones quoted here to say for certain that they are crap, so I'm only making a general observation here, not recommending against any of the things that were posted.

quote:

Originally posted by No Left Turn Sorry. I'm just really over recommending people crap just because it fits their budget. Saving an extra couple hundred bucks isn't hard.

You are of course right but where do you draw the line? If you can save up enough for an Ultralite then surely, you aren't that far off an 828MKII? And if you can afford one of them, you aren't that far off a Fireface 400. And of course, you will get less I/O so you might as well save for a Fireface 800. And if you have that much disposible income why settle for anything less than an Apogee Rosetta 200?

A fireface 400 will satisify the need of a lot of musicians out there, I'm not sure the extra adat and preamps is that necessary for most of us. being the owner of a fireface 400, I'd say this is a top end soundcard and unless you really need the extra I/o, you don't need to spend that extra money. The firface 800 do feature a few more things, make shure you need them before you go for it.

quote:

Originally posted by No Left Turn Sorry. I'm just really over recommending people crap just because it fits their budget. Saving an extra couple hundred bucks isn't hard.

Totally agree with you, maybe i didnt make it clear but was looking at these prices for second hand gear.

You can pick up stuff like terratec phase 88r firewire, echo audiofire8 and motu 828 mkii cards for about 210 ish so u can get some good quality stuff. Obviously i cant get a motu 24 i/o for a grand but as its such a vital part I do want a quality card.

btw ive heard of some issues with motu and pc's as motu are known for mac interfaces, has this been an issue with anyone?

Terratec Phase 88 Rack Firewire �200 rrp �550

Motu 8Pre �370 rrp �675

Echo Audiofire 12 Really like look of this one, bit like a Delta 1010.

Then I suppose there is the MOTU 828 MK II

THERE Really is alot of choice tbh and its a bit confusing lol

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative You are of course right but where do you draw the line? If you can save up enough for an Ultralite then surely, you aren't that far off an 828MKII? And if you can afford one of them, you aren't that far off a Fireface 400. And of course, you will get less I/O so you might as well save for a Fireface 800. And if you have that much disposible income why settle for anything less than an Apogee Rosetta 200?

You kind of have a point, but I really don't get what you're trying to argue.

There's a pretty big difference between spending $200 or less for a sound card and paying $500 for one. I don't care what the 2 cards are, the expensive one will be better in quality (of course, being relative to what the person wants in a sound card). When you get up to the $1000+ area, IMO, there really isn't much difference between anything unless you're gonna compare something like Pro Tools|HD192 to a DM-2000.

quote:

ive heard of some issues with motu and pc's as motu are known for mac interfaces,

This has nothing to do with the fact that one has a pc or a mac ! Many firewire soundcard have issue when plugged in Firewire with chipset different from Ti. Ti is the one to go for. In america It's the most common type but in europe you often get a via chipset or else.
Now all mac have ti chipset onboard that'why you'll never hear of issue on mac with firewire audio interface. Rme and motu both need a Ti chipset to work well. So if you buy a new pc, you need to buy a Ti pci firewire card or to get a motherboard with ti chipset on it.

Belkin 3 Port PCI Firewire Card 1394a - TI Chipset it retails at �28

Re: Need soundcard with many inputs

quote:

Originally posted by flutlicht junky Im looking for a sound card between �100 - �225 with as may inputs as possible (want to use cubase v3 external instrument in for my synths) - ideally balanced but I wont have to run long leads so its not too bad. DOnt mind the idea of second hand so more expensive options with not too high ebay value would be good too Looking at: Delta 1010 Tascam FW1804 Terratec Phase 88 or Phase 88 rack I run XP pro, cubase v3 on a AMD 3500+ Do the TA'ers have any advise or suggestions or cards i should avoid? FJ

Don't forget the E-MU 1820m, though I can't even find them on the major retailers. Have they been discontinued? I have an 1820m and it works fine for me, the quality of the converters are, apparently, a step up from most in the same price bracket (�300ish new I think, unsure now however, I bought mine a little while ago) though I couldn't tell you if that was true or not.

eBay item in the UK ?

quote:

Originally posted by No Left Turn You kind of have a point, but I really don't get what you're trying to argue. There's a pretty big difference between spending $200 or less for a sound card and paying $500 for one. I don't care what the 2 cards are, the expensive one will be better in quality (of course, being relative to what the person wants in a sound card). When you get up to the $1000+ area, IMO, there really isn't much difference between anything unless you're gonna compare something like Pro Tools|HD192 to a DM-2000.

Prism Sound ADA8XR springs to mind. A snip at 7.5 grand. Or you could spend about 4 grand a peice on an Apogee AD16 and a DA16.

Beyond that Prism Sound do discrete AD/DA convertors called the AD-2 and DA-2 respectively for about 8 grand each. Those are supposed to be amazing.

Theres always something better. The point is if you only have 200 quid in the bank, then you can't possibly afford a MOTU Ultralite. Unless you take out a loan or skim off your overdraft. And if you keep thinking about getting something better, you can keep on saving but new products will come to market. Older products will fall in price and you will either be saving forever or paying more than you originally intended.

When someone says 'I want to spend 200 quid' I assume thats exactly what they want to spend. Maybe a little more to get something that they need but not double the money.

Thanks for everyones comments.

Thinking about it some more I should not mind paying good money for a decent soundcard. After all if I'm happy paying �450 for a synth I need a good soundcard to get he best out of it!!

So looking to get the RME multiface cos its got 8 i/o plus a further 8 over ADAT and rock solid PC drivers!

Thanks All

FJ

If you have a �450 budget then you are in MOTU Ultralite territory. You can get an 828mkII for that outlay too although I 've heard people experience some problems with their 828 unless they have a specific firewire card and MOTU's warranty is stingy as hell. They can only guarantee it for 3 months. 3 months!

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative If you have a �450 budget then you are in MOTU Ultralite territory. You can get an 828mkII for that outlay too although I 've heard people experience some problems with their 828 unless they have a specific firewire card and MOTU's warranty is stingy as hell. They can only guarantee it for 3 months. 3 months!

It has only 6 TRS inputs and 2 mic / line though.

The Multiface has 16 inputs available, 8 TRS and 8 through ADAT Lightpipe. Plus RME are an awesome company for PC audio products, obviously there no Apogee but they also have good convertors (better than Motu it seems in many reviews, but as I wont need them its irrelevant).

FJ

I dunno how much a multiface is. I want to sell my Delta 1010 and get something with okish convertors and an instrument level input for my guitar. The Ultralite seems to have that covered. Also, it has 8 analogue ins and 10 analogue outs.

If the Multiface has that many more inputs it just makes me wonder - is RME skimping on something else? Does it have preamps? I know the Ultralite has an onboard preamp and its quite good for the money.

I just googled some info on the Multiface and it just seems like a Hammerfall card in a breakout box. And it only has 8 analogue ins. Unless I am missing something and its modular like Hammerfall? It still clocks in at a higher price than the Ultralite and they seem to have similar specs...

Full wack about �650 but seem for �400.

Digiface and Multiface are a breakout box for a PCI card.

The Digiface has three ADAT channels which if u use a AD/DA converter e.g. the Behringer ADA8000 you can get 3 x 8 = 24 channels of analogue audio in. ADAT is only max of 48hz (?) though.

The Multiface II has one ADAT channel and 8 analogue inputs at 96hz.

They do a firewire version called the fireface 400 or 800.

Not too sure on the preamp/convertor specs but the reason I opting for this one is despite what is said the Motu is best of Mac and RME best on PC. Yes you can get either to work on both but it appears they are ore stable on a particular platform.

It just makes it easier when I upgrade my PC that my soundcard is still likely to work too.

The PCI card for RME also takes some of the ASIO load off the CPU and you can get some pretty low latency if you want. 3ms is the lowest ppl have recorded though I dont believe this is practical in normal studio work due to audio drop out.

quote:

the Motu is best of Mac and RME best on PC

I don't know where this come from ???????
To choose rme is wise, not because yo have a pc though!

quote:

Does it have preamps

The Fireface 400 has 2 preamps while the Fireface 800 has 4, I don't think the converters of the motus can be compared to the rme one, rme has really good class A mic preamps.

quote:

Originally posted by Seppa I don't know where this come from ??????? To choose rme is wise, not because yo have a pc though!

PPl still having issues with Motu on PC, not least due to the correct firewire chipset having to be used (TI or Lucent) which is std on Mac but not on PC esp in Europe where VIA is often used.

My statement is hardly a cast iron fact but reading through forums there do seem to be issues with the the use of Motu on PC (more for older 2408 and 828 it seems). But as with anything you can check manufactures specs.

quote:

Originally posted by Seppa The Fireface 400 has 2 preamps while the Fireface 800 has 4, I don't think the converters of the motus can be compared to the rme one, rme has really good class A mic preamps.

I know RME had good converters which I assume refer to internal AD/DA converters? Didnt know about the preamps tho; thanks for the info!!!

Does this apply to the Multiface II as well as Firefaces??

FJ

Some motu do have issue when runned in 96khz on pc.this is due to the pc drivers. But that shouldn't concern anyone who is not being forced to run at 96khz (eg ssl Console). The reason is, if you produce at 96khz you gonna need to convert it to 44.1 in order to played on cd or else. the fact is, you'd be better record at 44.1 straight away without converting later. the loss when converting is very obvious. give it a try and see for yourself. That is why the majority of people shouldn't be concern about this issue and therefore motu runs as well on pc as on mac in my opinion. running a system in 96khz clearly means you're from another league and therfore you wouldn't even use a motu to start with weather you use mac or pc.

quote:

I know RME had good converters which I assume refer to internal AD/DA converters? Didnt know about the preamps tho; thanks for the info!!! Does this apply to the Multiface II as well as Firefaces??

The fireface 400 has the best preamps rme has to offer they are even better than 800 ( the uk representant told my partner). the firefaces 400 has the same input converters as the 800. the output converters have a slightly narower range, but i wouldn't pick on that.
I don't know much about the multiface in terms of converterters. go on the website and check the specs.as for preamps the multiface has none.
if i were you i'd save and go for the fireface 400. you'll be set for a real long time with that

I still believe a pci / breakout box is a good combination. It will offer me less strain on my pc and better latency. I also don't need the portability yet.

Plus as PCI is less fashionable today I can get the Multiface II and card for about 40% off RRP.

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