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worse than the loudness war..

is the fucking war over filling up every last inch of headroom and space in a mix. jesus christ shit has so much percussion and whitenoise everyone tries to have no open space in their mix what so ever. ppl insist on filling every little inch of dead space up with shakers and crap! i dunno... just sounds too busy to me now days not enough atmosphere. i miss the simpler more minimal trance days. its really harder to make trance sound good with less...

Why do you think the virus is so popular? IT sounds like a wall of noise ffs

quote:

Originally posted by camsr Why do you think the virus is so popular? IT sounds like a wall of noise ffs

hah....

personally i dont bother filling up the dead space in my mix with shit i dont need (shakers wtf?), i use that space as wiggle room for the existing instruments/synths within the mix (room for reverb and such)

yes and i admire and been a fan of your work for awhile.. since i heard your alice deejay remix lol

not everybody is a bad-ass professional....

quote:

Originally posted by KilldaDJ (shakers wtf?)

Shakers are the best! I use them in every track.

i see your point.

In the older days the tracks didnt have that much layers. and still sounds better than alot of tracks these day.. a simple sound can create just as much depth as 10 multilayered sounds all over.

Imo the problem with these days tracks is that people try to make every element dominant. This way the listeners focus is forced to spread on everything and one can't enjoy single beautiful things as much.

...still there's always room for shakers

ok now I'm gonna make a track with just shakers. LOL

Shakers:

They're what Trance is all about.

Gotta Love those Meraccas percussion.

Just like in drum and bass when the triangle comes in, Just imagine Debt coming out with a triangle live on stage as he MC's.

when all else fails, add more cowbell.

Best thing to do is start with white noise at 0 dB and put a limiter on the master.

Shakers and Cowbells + triangles

Now I need some Farmer Brown Samples... gyyyahahahaaaa!

I'm feeling like I'm gonna produce a #1 hit with this diabolic combination.

I'd say that this deffo is connected to the whole "loudness war".

As usual the general opinion seem to be that louder = better and what could be better for loudness than shitloads of layered instruments.

Even though I really hate that kind of thinking and reasoning I find myself quite often in the very same trap, filling up my headroom more and more.

I must say that in the end there's nothing as good as a simple track with nice dynamics!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Best thing to do is start with white noise at 0 dB and put a limiter on the master.

Not a bad idea actually

I just put shakers in a track

If you listen to the best tracks (in my opinion) they still have that ability to breathe a little.

I find that may of the tracks that pile up on various frequencies actually lake melody and components that stick in your mind. In other words, you forget about the track as soon as you have heard it.

If you have a strong melody then you don't need to go apeshit with the shakers, cowbells or anything else.

In this particular instance we can actully take the lead from a lot of rock bands as they actually only need bass, two guitars, drums and a vocalist. Not a big fan of rock but you can always hear a well written track.

Sometimes less is definately more.

Cheers
Nem

shakers = MORE ANALOG

Its the modern way

That is one temptation.

Can't do anything interesting with just a few elements? Then add more and everything will be too busy for most people to notice how boring the individual elements are.

Stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 If you have a strong melody then you don't need to go apeshit with the shakers, cowbells or anything else. In this particular instance we can actully take the lead from a lot of rock bands as they actually only need bass, two guitars, drums and a vocalist. Not a big fan of rock but you can always hear a well written track.

I come from the rock and metal world, so it seemed odd to me how much layering is expected in Trance and other forms of EDM. I agree, if you have a good melody, you don't need to have to have a ton of things going on. Progressive Trance tends to have less melodies, or no real melody line at all, so that is made up for by adding a lot of percussion lines and FX, ect. Some of it sounds good, some of it is pretty sterile and boring.

I use shakers and tambourines a lot, and I'm always experimenting with new percussion sounds. I try not to overdo it though, and my tracks always have strong melody lines. Nonetheless, I gave in to the pressure of trying to fill every space of my tracks. This is mainly due to feedback I've gotten from other producers, so I assumed it was expected. I guess that's just the way it is nowadays. DJs and the average listener seem to expect it too.

I switched over to Progressive House, I think out of rebellion. Prog House seems to be more about the music, and doesn't rely so much on percussion layering and having a ton of things going on at once. It's more pure musically, much like the way Trance used to be.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 In this particular instance we can actully take the lead from a lot of rock bands as they actually only need bass, two guitars, drums and a vocalist. Not a big fan of rock but you can always hear a well written track.

Modern rock bands fill up every inch of headroom, AND overcompress for loudness.

It's all about the "wall of sound".

Well I guess it's not far from the truth to say that producing EDM theese days have become more usual since the access to software is so wide (with piracy and all that stuff).

Everyone want to do it but not everyone is equally suited for it. It takes a good ammount of creativeness to create a really good and mindblowing melody but in order to create something quite regular all you need is to listen to others work, copy and alter and then fill up the rest of the track with sound in order to mask that the rest of the track is actually quite mediocre.

Call me cynical but it's true for quite many productions...

Re: worse than the loudness war..

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalninja is the fucking war over filling up every last inch of headroom and space in a mix. jesus christ shit has so much percussion and whitenoise everyone tries to have no open space in their mix what so ever. ppl insist on filling every little inch of dead space up with shakers and crap! i dunno... just sounds too busy to me now days not enough atmosphere. i miss the simpler more minimal trance days. its really harder to make trance sound good with less...

AGREED!!!

more to that I can say that this willing to fill up 101% of headroom makes me feel like one is trying to make it sound more "progressive" opposing to "ordinary" trance/house etc. which I personally find sad because for me music has gone way down qualitywise (corpared to 2003 and earlier)

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