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DA-Mned Element

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DA-Mned Element // The U.S. intends to put anti-missile defense elements in Caucasus and Ukraine Moscow-Washington opposition about US anti-ballistic missile defense system in Europe is likely to escalate. The U.S. announced that after the Czech Republic and Poland, ABM defense elements will be built in Caucasus. It means that already in 2011, a mobile American radar might appear in Georgia or Azerbaijan. Moreover, US Department of State has for the first time named Ukraine among countries with which Washington cooperates closely in ABM defense issues. Moscow made it clear right away that it has already prepared an �adequate response� to US plans. Lieutenant General Henry Obering, director of the U.S. Missile Defense Agency, disclosed US plans to expand its ABM defense system, moving it closer to Russia�s borders. Speaking in NATO headquarters in Brussels on Thursday evening, Obering said that Washington intends to build an ABM radar in Caucasus by 2011. �It will be a mobile radar requiring a couple of days to be installed. We still have time to coordinate its precise location,� said Obering. According to the official, the radar will detect missile launches, and then transmit data to a stationary radar in the Czech Republic. Then the US general tried to calm Moscow: �Our radar will be turned at Iran. We will not be able to turn it around and study objects in Russia. And even if we are able to do it, the radar will not look over Russian territory so far as to detect the launches of Russian missiles.� Obering�s statement became the first official acknowledgment that Washington will not stop at building ABM elements in Eastern Europe (in Czechia and Poland) only. Until Thursday, neither US military officials, nor US diplomats spoke of the plans to install a radar in Caucasus. Apparently, US ABM elements might be placed only in two Caucasus countries, those that keep up close relations with Washington, -- Azerbaijan and Georgia. Armenia, the country that had reckoned with Russia almost openly before, refused right away to cooperate with the U.S. in the ABM sphere. Armenia�s defense ministry declared it yesterday. However, Baku�s and Tbilisi�s response was different. Azerbaijan�s defense ministry is so far disproving rumors about placing US radar on its territory. Yet, Azerbaijani officials have not, in fact, completely denied the possibility in future, saying that �the decision is to be made by the country�s top officials�. Georgia�s Ministry of Defense and its Foreign Affairs Ministry said that �no offers to install ABM elements came from the U.S.�. Both ministries refrained from giving comments on �the possibility of such offer and Tbilisi�s response�. Meanwhile, head of Georgian parliamentary committee on European and Euro-Atlantic integration David Bakradze said: �Georgia is ready to attentively consider such offer�. Taking into account that Tbilisi declared the military cooperation with the U.S. and NATO one of the priorities of its foreign policy, installation of a US radar on Georgian territory is quite likely as well. However, Washington is apparently going further than Caucasus while expanding its ABM system in the post-Soviet space. Recently-appointed Assistant Secretary for Bureau of International Security and Nonproliferation John Rood, speaking in Washington on Thursday, named Ukraine among �countries that are involved in the efforts to create an ABM system�. Leaving the details of Washington-Kiev cooperation in that sphere undisclosed, Rood began the onset on Moscow. He criticized its suspicion against US plans, and the threats coming from Russian politicians and military officials, in particular the threat to withdraw from the Medium- and Small-Range Missile Treaty. �Moscow�s gelid rhetoric and threatening declarations look like a clumsy attempt to drive a wedge between NATO allies,� he said. Rood also accused Moscow of carrying out its own ABM programs: �Russia maintains the ABM system around its main city � Moscow, and has developed defense against missiles of smaller range.� Rumors about involving Kiev into US ABM project had existed before. Now, however, Rood�s statement became the first official acknowledgement of those plans on such a high level. There has been no official response from Ukrainian authorities yet. A few days ago, Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko made quite a contradictory statement on ABM. Speaking in Dnepropetrovsk, he said that Ukraine �should go by collective obligations in what concerns placing US ABM system in Czechia and Poland�. The president asked Ukrainian politicians to comment on the issue �with regard to Ukraine�s national interests and obligations�. Ukraine�s Defense Minister Anatoly Gritsenko has not clarified Kiev�s position either. He said yesterday that Ukraine is concerned about US plans to build ABM in Czechia and Poland: �What if missile fragments fall on our territory? If it�s not a nuclear warhead, it might be a �dirty� bomb, for instance with nuclear substances, a virus, or biologic weapon.� Unlike the reactions of all those countries, Moscow�s response was clear and tough. Russian Air Force Commander-in-Chief, General of the Army Vladimir Mikhailov responded to the U.S. yesterday: �Unfortunately, they speak of installing US ABM elements even in such countries as Ukraine, and in a number of other countries, including Russia�s neighbors. Let them install ABM, after all it�s their problems, while we have everything necessary for giving an adequate response to all those installations.� And Mikhailov proceeded to praising Russian air defense missile weapon system S-400 Triumf. Russia�s defense ministry refrained from additional comments yesterday, saying that �Mikhailov has already expressed the ministry�s position�. Alexander Gabuev; Vladimir Novikov, Tbilis

DA-Mned Element

"Friendly America" is coming to Caucasus and Ukraine. They more and more remind me of one nation that collapsed in 1991.

I've read a Russian language article on this the other day. LOL, yeah, look at that - Americans need missile defense bases in every post-Soviet state to defend against Iran, LOL. Its not just Poland and Czech Republic anymore, its Georgia, Ukraine, Baltic states ... oh my, yeah, I dont buy the bullshit that Americans are doing this to defend against Iranian aggression. Did Americans invade Iraq because of 9/11 connection or valid documentation of WMD's proof? No. They're liars, and they lie about their intentions right now as well.

you two are worse than sheep, you know that right?

the sheep was president Kennedy and whole American nation, during the time when Russians planned to install nuclear missles on Cuba.

do you like that?

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Originally posted by Q5echo you two are worse than sheep, you know that right?

Even if they are sheep, what reason would the US have to install those ABM's? I thought the new rules said 'no ad hominem', yet every other of your posts completely bypass what is being debated and just go straight for the person. Hey, here's a tip, if you don't an argument to contribute don't go through all the effort of hitting the post button.

On this expansion thing, i thought with NATO withdrawing and loosing power the US would curbed its expansion in Europe too. It's a shame, this will only get them into trouble and win them enemies.

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U.S. missile defence in Europe angers Russia Last Updated: Monday, March 5, 2007 | 12:54 PM ET The Associated Press Germany's foreign minister called Monday for a calm debate by the European Union, the NATO alliance and Russia on U.S. plans to develop an anti-missile shield in Europe. A top Russian general, however, increased the bellicosity of the debate, noting that the Russian air force could easily knock out any such missile-defence sites the U.S. places in Europe. "Since missile-defence elements are weakly protected, all types of our aircraft are capable of applying electronic countermeasures against them or physically destroying them," Lt.-Gen. Igor Khvorov said Monday, according to Russian news agencies Interfax and RIA-Novosti. German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, whose country holds the EU presidency, made his call for calm amid growing concerns in Moscow and in the EU over Washington's talks with the Czech Republic, Poland and Britain about those countries hosting radar bases and interceptor missiles as part of the plan. "What we have to do now is to discuss this calmly within NATO and the EU and � to talk to the Russians," Steinmeier told reporters as he went into a meeting of EU foreign ministers. Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn said the U.S. plan was "incomprehensible," adding that money spent on a European missile-defence system could be better spent elsewhere. "We will have no stability in Europe if we push the Russians into a corner," he said. The comments came ahead of Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek's visit to NATO headquarters, where he was to discuss the controversial plan later Monday. Several EU nations, including France, have voiced concern that such a system could hurt European ties with Moscow. The Russians have strongly criticized the plan to place a radar system in the Czech Republic and a missile-interceptor site in Poland. Iran the threat, not Russia: U.S. Washington has offered assurances that the installations would be meant to deal with a potential threat from Iran, not Russia. However, Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that he does not trust the American claims and warned that Russia would take countermeasures. German Defence Minister Franz Josef Jung suggested Friday that the U.S. plan could be integrated into the defences of NATO. Britain is also in talks with the U.S. about the deployment. On a visit to NATO headquarters Thursday, the director of the U.S. Missile Defence Agency, Lt.-Gen. Henry Obering, said Washington also wants to put an anti-missile radar site in the Caucasus, a move likely to intensify Russian concerns. In another reflection of the increasing tensions, Russia's presidential Security Council said it was developing a new national military doctrine that would take into account the growing role of military force in global politics. While it did not mention the United States, the statement referred to the strengthening of NATO as one of the global policy factors that explain the need for Russia to revise its military doctrine. Last month, Putin accused the U.S. of the unrestrained use of force worldwide. Canada remains out of N. American missile defence In February 2005, Prime Minister Paul Martin announced that Canada would not participate in a North American missile-shield program with the U.S. Although critical of the decision at the time, in July 2006, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said his Tory government wasn't prepared to open the debate on whether Canada should reverse the Liberal decision and join the U.S. ballistic missile-defence program. However, Harper said he understood the need to have a "modern and flexible defence system" to combat missile threats.

U.S. missile defence in Europe angers Russia


Who needs a goddamn stability? The US is pushing Russia and China for another arms race. How can't G.Bush realize that? Or is it a part of his foreign policy course?

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Originally posted by star-traveller U.S. missile defence in Europe angers Russia Who needs a goddamn stability? The US is pushing Russia and China for another arms race. How can't G.Bush realize that? Or is it a part of his foreign policy course?

Yeah, there's little consequences when they push little players around like Iran or Iraq or North Korea. But they should be ready to tread very carefully with Russia and China to avoid reviving old animosity's.

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Originally posted by venomX Yeah, there's little consequences when they push little players around like Iran or Iraq or North Korea. But they should be ready to tread very carefully with Russia and China to avoid reviving old animosity's.

After 9/11 attacks, Iran was on American side, offering assistance, handing over terrorists, asking for mutual American-Iranian co-operation in the region. However, USA just placed Iran into the rogue states list and told them to funk off. So then Ahmadinejad came to power, and he decided to shift the policy accordingly. So who do we have to blame for all this?

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Russia Has No Explicit Answers from the U.S., Lavrov Said Russia has received �no clear answers� from the United States to the better part of questions related to strategic safety, RF Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told the reporters. The Foreign Ministry of Russia �is in talks with the U.S. colleagues,� prompting them to clarify the situation. �The meetings and briefings are being held, but we get no clear answers to most questions,� Lavrov specified. The case in hand is the U.S. plans to station elements of the missile defense system in some countries of Eastern Europe. The response of Russia�s policymakers is predictably critical. At the same time, Lavrov acknowledged �the U.S. flexibility and readiness to compromise in respect of the nuclear problems of Korea peninsula and to resume a new round of negotiations.� Moscow thinks �this approach will be maintained and mutual solutions will be found for remaining issues,� Lavrov said. When commenting on results of negotiations with South Korean Foreign Minister Song Min-soon, Lavrov specified the need to bring momentum to Korea dialogue. Lavrov said they agreed to be as efficient as possible and hold meetings of working groups on nuclear problems of Korea and �to develop additional contacts within the dialogue for cooperating in Asia and for security in the ASEAN partners.�

Russia Has No Explicit Answers from the U.S., Lavrov Said

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Pentagon Heads for Kiev // US Primes Europe for Missile Defense System Yesterday an American delegation headed by US Ballistic Missile Defense Agency director Lieutenant General Henry Obering arrived in Kiev, where the Pentagon's representatives and the Ukrainian authorities were due to discuss plans to expand America's ballistic missile defense system into Poland and the Czech Republic. In the face of the increasing number of opponents that the idea is facing, including much of Western Europe, Washington has clearly decided to attempt to placate the naysayers by sending General Obering in to do some explaining. The Pentagon delegation's visit to Ukraine was organized on the initiative of the American side. In Kiev, the meetings lasted from early in the morning until late in the evening and included talks with Defense Minister Vitaly Gaiduk, presidential advisor Vladimir Gorbulin, deputies from the Upper Rada (the Ukrainian parliament), and representatives from the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry. On the request of the Americans, the meetings were held behind closed doors, with General Obering appearing in public only at a final press conference to discuss what brought him to Kiev and the talks that he had with Ukrainian military and government officials. According to General Obering, the American anti-missile facilities that may soon be installed in Poland and the Czech Republic are necessary only to neutralize the threats posed by Iran and North Korea. He insisted that these facilities are not a threat to Russia and that the US has no plans to establish a similar system in Ukraine or the countries of the Caucasus. "We are talking about no more than ten interceptors,'' Obering assured journalists, adding, ''They would have no effect against the hundreds of missiles and thousands of warheads that the Russians have. �They are not even in the proper position if we were concerned about Russian missiles.'' General Obering's placatory speech was briefly interrupted by four activists from the Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine (PSPU), who chanted "Yankee, go home" and waved banners featuring anti-NATO and anti-American slogans before being subdued by security guards and ejected from the room. Several journalists were briefly involved in the scuffle, as was Ukrainian Foreign Ministry spokesman Andrei Deshchetsa, who managed to rip a banner from the hands of one of the protestors. In response to the incident, General Obering observed, "I am very glad to see that democracy is alive and well" in Ukraine. Meanwhile, a demonstration was taking place on the street outside the building, where about 50 PSPU activists chanted "We're not Yankees, we're Slavs, and our brothers are the Russians" and carried signs reading "No to American missile defenses in Europe," "No to pro-NATO plans in Ukraine," and "Ukraine against NATO." The antics of the PSPU activists were unlikely to puncture the mood for Washington's emissaries, who were being handled with utmost care by Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko. Eager to make General Obering feel welcome in Kiev, President Yushchenko argued in an interview with Euronews the day before the American delegation arrived that the idea of Poland and the Czech Republic hosting elements of the US missile defense shield in is in Europe's best interest. "We are talking about the installation of components that are defensive in nature and that will serve the interests not only of Poland and the Czech Republic but of Europe as a whole," he said, adding that "the development of a collective model is always better than the development of a bipolar system of confrontation." Mr. Yushchenko's sanguine outlook is not shared by Ukrainian Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych, who has long criticized Washington's plans to expand the shield in Europe, but the prime minister's opposition gave the president no pause. President Yushchenko dismissed Mr. Yanukovych's fears, calling his position an incorrect signal. "My main point is this: Europeans should rest assured that not a single democratic victory of the Orange Revolution will be ceded or ruined," promised the president. Incidentally, there were some signs of rapport between Yushchenko and Yanukovych yesterday that could facilitate the hammering out of a unified position for Kiev on the issue of the missile defense system: during a meeting yesterday evening, the two Ukrainian leaders finally agreed on a candidate for foreign minister, a question on which Viktor Yanukovych has been stonewalling all progress for the past several months. This is a positive signal for the West, which has been quietly confused about whom to carry on talks with, given that Ukraine's two leaders hold diametrically-opposed opinions on foreign policy. "The visit by the Americans is an overture. Their plan is to at least test the waters, to find out how the Ukrainian elite feels about the missile defense system and to try to make sure that it does not come out against [the system]. They need the Ukrainians to not destroy Eastern European solidarity on this question," said Vadim Karasev, the director of the Kiev Institute of Global Strategy. "Right now the Ukrainian military is not unanimously opposed to the missile shield, and that is significant," he noted. Henry Obering has every reason to believe that his visit to Kiev yesterday was successful. Today General Obering heads for Germany, whose leadership has been increasingly critical of the American plan to put its missile shield in Eastern Europe without consulting all interested parties. Recently German Chancellor Angela Merkel maintained that Washington should take Russia's opinion on the matter into account and mentioned that she plans to bring up the subject during her visit to Warsaw on March 16-17: "I think that we will discuss it there. �We, and I will say this in Poland, prefer a solution within NATO and also an open discussion with Russia about it." During his visit to Germany, General Obering plans to hold discussions with German military officials and politicians similar to his talks with the Ukrainian authorities, and he is sure to push Ukraine's cautiously positive outlook on the shield in hopes of convincing his German colleagues that Washington's plans involving Poland and the Czech Republic will not rupture relations with Russia.

Pentagon Heads for Kiev

The current US administration is doing everything to destabilize the situation in Europe.

The debate over ABM bases in Europe is so pointless and stupid. It seems the Russians get it:

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"A top Russian general, however, increased the bellicosity of the debate, noting that the Russian air force could easily knock out any such missile-defence sites the U.S. places in Europe. "Since missile-defence elements are weakly protected, all types of our aircraft are capable of applying electronic countermeasures against them or physically destroying them," Lt.-Gen. Igor Khvorov said Monday, according to Russian news agencies Interfax and RIA-Novosti.

I wonder how much of this outrage over US plans is being invented by the anti-US propaganda machine. The Russians know these ABM systems are at most able to take out a few missiles, not a threat to a massive launch of thousands of ICBMs by Russia. The Russians know these bases are being placed to counter threats by Iran and North Korea and are not in position to destroy ICBMs launched from Russia. The Russians know that in time of war if they wanted to they could easily destroy the ABM bases making the whole issue moot.

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Originally posted by XaNaX The debate over ABM bases in Europe is so pointless and stupid. It seems the Russians get it:

I'd like to see your face when you know that your country is a target for a number of ICBMs with nuclear warheads. Exactly that thing will happen with ass-licker Poland and Czech.

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Originally posted by XaNaX I wonder how much of this outrage over US plans is being invented by the anti-US propaganda machine. The Russians know these ABM systems are at most able to take out a few missiles, not a threat to a massive launch of thousands of ICBMs by Russia. The Russians know these bases are being placed to counter threats by Iran and North Korea and are not in position to destroy ICBMs launched from Russia. The Russians know that in time of war if they wanted to they could easily destroy the ABM bases making the whole issue moot.

Oh yeah man, American propaganda is in place. Try to compare what you said with what Bush tried to push before the war in Iraq.

Or you want to say me that the US doesn't know such word as Propaganda?

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Originally posted by star-traveller I'd like to see your face when you know that your country is a target for a number of ICBMs with nuclear warheads. Exactly that thing will happen with ass-licker Poland and Czech.

My country was the target of thousands of Soviet ICBMs for decades, whats your point?

It still does not change the fact that the US ABM system is no threat to Russia and never will be. It will always be cheaper and easier to build offensive weapons than it will be to build defensive ones.

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Originally posted by XaNaX My country was the target of thousands of Soviet ICBMs for decades, whats your point? It still does not change the fact that the US ABM system is no threat to Russia and never will be. It will always be cheaper and easier to build offensive weapons than it will be to build defensive ones.

Your country has an adueqate response to it. But if Russian-American relationships goes down, Poland and other countries that host this system will be just a bunch of sheeps in the middle of the war field. Do they need this?

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Originally posted by star-traveller Your country has an adueqate response to it. But if Russian-American relationships goes down, Poland and other countries that host this system will be just a bunch of sheeps in the middle of the war field. Do they need it?

What are the chances of that though?

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Originally posted by star-traveller Your country has an adueqate response to it. But if Russian-American relationships goes down, Poland and other countries that host this system will be just a bunch of sheeps in the middle of the war field. Do they need this?

Poland and the Czech Republic are both NATO allies. They are protected from attack by Russia via the threat of a massive retaliatory strike from the USA just like any other ally. They have nothing to worry about.

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Originally posted by XaNaX Poland and the Czech Republic are both NATO allies. They are protected from attack by Russia via the threat of a massive retaliatory strike from the USA just like any other ally. They have nothing to worry about.

The US will think twice before launching a massive nuclear strike on Russia. But Russia in this case could easily make a pre-emptive strike on those site in Poland or whatever.

Anyway, one of the goal Bush is trying to achieve is this:

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US missile defense in Europe could drag Russia into arms race - gen. 15:22 | 16/ 03/ 2007 MOSCOW, March 16 (RIA Novosti) - U.S. missile defense deployment in Europe could drag Russia into a new arms race, a senior Russian air defense commander said Friday. "This is a very urgent and politically important issue, and could drag us into a new arms race," Colonel-General Yury Solovyov, commander of the Air Defense Forces Special Command (former Moscow Military District Air Defense Command), told journalists. The United States plans to deploy a radar installation in the Czech Republic and a missile base in Poland by 2011-2012, saying the shield is needed to counter possible attacks from Iran. But Russia objects to the plans, treating them as a security threat. Solovyov said the deployment will not be a threat to Russia, but "could be bad for Russia because our potential adversaries will constantly monitor Russia's territory." The chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, Yury Baluyevsky, said in an interview with the daily Rossiiskaya Gazeta in February that unilateral U.S. action could damage the balance of power in Europe and undermine Russia's nuclear deterrence potential. Solovyov also said the first air defense regiment equipped with a new air defense system will be put on combat duty by June 1. "This year we plan to put on combat duty one of our regiments [equipped with S-400]," he said. An air defense system manufacturer said February 27 the first air defense regiment equipped with new S-400 Triumf ground-to-air missile systems will be put on combat duty in the Moscow Region in the middle of 2007. The Military-Industrial Commission, which answers directly to the Russian president, met on that day to consider prospects for a fifth-generation air defense system and building aerospace defenses in the country. "The [new] regiment will have more [missile] batteries than regiments currently equipped with S-300 air defense systems," said Alexander Lemansky, chief designer at the Almaz Science and Production Association. Lemansky said new S-400 systems considerably differed from S-300 systems by their effective firing range, firing capacity and other parameters. The S-300 (SA-10 Grumble) anti-aircraft missile system was designed to protect military and industrial facilities from mass air strikes. A missile launched from the system can travel at a speed of 2,000 meters per second and is capable of hitting a target at a distance of 150 km (93 miles) flying at a height of up to 30 km (19 miles) and at a speed of up to 10,000 km/h (6,215 mph). "The effective firing range of the new [S-400] system is twice that of the previous S-300 [system] and its firing capacity is more than double," Lemansky said. First Deputy Prime Minister and former defense minister Sergei Ivanov, who oversees defense-related sectors and chairs today's meeting of the commission, earlier said new S-400 Triumf ground-to-air missile systems were adopted for service in late 2006 and will be placed on alert duty later this year.

US missile defense in Europe could drag Russia into arms race - gen.

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Originally posted by star-traveller The US will think twice before launching a massive nuclear strike on Russia. But Russia in this case could easily make a pre-emptive strike on those site in Poland or whatever. Anyway, one of the goal Bush is trying to achieve is this: US missile defense in Europe could drag Russia into arms race - gen.

Of course we would think twice about launching a massive nuclear strike on Russia. Just as Russia will not launch an pre-emptive strike against ABM bases in Poland or the Czech Republic because the Russians know the bases are not a threat to them and their missiles. Why would they want to provoke certain retaliation by NATO for an attack on a NATO member to destroy a target with no military significance to them?

Even if the Russians did feel threatened by the bases they would not attack them unless they had already decided to commit to a global nuclear war. Its the same MAD theory that kept us safe for decades during the cold war. Russia knows that an unprovoked attack on a NATO member country would very likely degenerate quickly into a full scale war with NATO, a war that it cannot hope to win without the use of nuclear weapons. And we all know that there would be no winners in the event of a massive nuclear exchange between NATO and Russia.

I don't buy your argument that Bush wants to create a new arms race. What is your reasoning behind that statement? Bush has nothing to gain from an arms race with Russia. Its not like the US has a shoestring defense budget and he needs to spark an arms race to increase it. The US defense budget is 6 times the size of the next closest nations (China and then Russia). Russia can ill afford a new arms race with the USA and Bush has no reason to want to bankrupt the Russian government.

I know its hard for you to understand, but its not all about Bush.

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