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Phrasing*?

Is that the term for matching the songs up by their measures and bars?


well its kind of hard for me to explain but
Like i hear in some of Paul Van Dyk's older sets where he matches the songs up perfectly where the live song is having a build right to the outro and the incoming track is having a build to the body of the track ...

i dont get how u can get both songs matched that exact down to the second .... even with shitloads of practice. is there a program or technique or something so u know when to start playing the incoming track so its matched up perfectly when u mix it in?

thx sorry if i didnt explain what i mean corretly

The technique is called "knowing your tracks". There really is no trick to it, you just need to know the stuff you play and it all falls into place.

I really wouldn't start mixing in from a breakdown/build though.

i didnt really mean a build like that or a breakdown
man i dont know what to call it .... ugh


it was just at like a perfect time to mix in ... everymix too

i know about knowing ur tracks but... getting it down to the exact second? ... like he wasnt even a frame ahead or behind... it was dead on

I'm not really sure if I understand you correctly, but that's what any DJ should be able to do. It's one of the basic skills.

do you mean dropping the incoming track when the outgoing track has no beats?

if so its harder than doing it normally but still doable with practice

quote:

Originally posted by Smiley do you mean dropping the incoming track when the outgoing track has no beats? if so its harder than doing it normally but still doable with practice

The safest mixing is probably mixing when the outgoing is at its outro, basically every 8 bars the outgoing track will start reducing percussion (well most). I'm not that good at explaining things but I think you get the point:


outgoing: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8_CRASH!!!!
incoming: ----------------------1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8_CRASH!!!!


But it's also one of the most boring ways to mix

like its already mentioned its a basic skill to be able to "allign the tracks perfectly" as you put it...phrasing, beatmatching, harmonics, eq, fx, this is all the foundation for being a DJ.

I usually dont even think about it. That metronome in my brain counts for me

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I usually dont even think about it. That metronome in my brain counts for me

That would explain why your sets are always so poorly phrased.

haha Clovis owned.

anyways... how do u know how many bars there are till the melody of the next song comes in? thats what is puzzling me

i dont see how u can match up it perfectly unless u practice mixing those 2 songs beforehand


to get it like what a person above kind of said

outgoing: 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1_CRASH!!!!-(outro)
incoming: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8_CRASH!!!!-(body)

well its already been mentioned that you should know your tracks to begin with. additionally as a DJ you should know your genre well enough to predict to an extent how things will match up...your brain will do it automatically at a certain point and combined with knowing your tracks well, it will be perfect every time.

quote:

Originally posted by theognis1002 haha Clovis owned. anyways... how do u know how many bars there are till the melody of the next song comes in? thats what is puzzling me i dont see how u can match up it perfectly unless u practice mixing those 2 songs beforehand to get it like what a person above kind of said outgoing: 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1_CRASH!!!!-(outro) incoming: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8_CRASH!!!!-(body)

pvd is a pro! he knows his tracks inside and out... just keep practicing!

program? serato-ish or ableton-ish programs would def help you make a perfect mix (as in phrases matching up perfectly). i mean, you can actually see the whole track and where the breakdown/buildups are.

This is a hard question to answer cause there is no real technique to doing it. I mean I can usually buy some new tunes and mix them into each other well straight away and phrased correctly.

Its just something that you will pick up.

But then not everyone is musically minded - maybe some people might have to follow a formula which would be to follow the numbered formula mentioned earlier.

quote:

Originally posted by agentdansmith This is a hard question to answer cause there is no real technique to doing it. I mean I can usually buy some new tunes and mix them into each other well straight away and phrased correctly. Its just something that you will pick up. But then not everyone is musically minded - maybe some people might have to follow a formula which would be to follow the numbered formula mentioned earlier.

I dont think they were giving a formula but rather just trying to put into text how tracks are structured.

quote:

Originally posted by discobiscuit program? serato-ish or ableton-ish programs would def help you make a perfect mix (as in phrases matching up perfectly). i mean, you can actually see the whole track and where the breakdown/buildups are.

Cause counting kick drums takes so much skill

u shouldnt even need to count

quote:

Originally posted by discobiscuit program? serato-ish or ableton-ish programs would def help you make a perfect mix (as in phrases matching up perfectly). i mean, you can actually see the whole track and where the breakdown/buildups are.

My thoughts exactly. PVD uses ableton + midi controller for mixing.

The phrasing refers to musical phrases. If you pay attention, you'll hear that elements are usually layered or repeat every 8, 16, or 32 bars (assuming 4/4 time signature).

You don't want to drop a track in the middle of a phrase since you would end up having two phrases not aligned and it would sound odd, hence the technique called 'phrasing'. It's actually fairly simple to do, and to be honest, doesn't require 'knowing your tracks'- it's definitely possible to predict the structure of a track.

Breakdown refers to the section where usually the track's percussion elements are removed, and the track energy drops a little. A breakdown builds energy again and leads to the percussion being added back, usually the highs (hats) first, and sometimes involving a snare roll with the kick being added back at the end of the breakdown.

Breakdowns are usually when the crowd has their hands up in the air, regardless if a filter (hands up machine, ala the PvD video in the Anthem thread) is used.

quote:

Originally posted by AnomalyConcept The phrasing refers to musical phrases. If you pay attention, you'll hear that elements are usually layered or repeat every 8, 16, or 32 bars (assuming 4/4 time signature). You don't want to drop a track in the middle of a phrase since you would end up having two phrases not aligned and it would sound odd, hence the technique called 'phrasing'. It's actually fairly simple to do, and to be honest, doesn't require 'knowing your tracks'- it's definitely possible to predict the structure of a track.

exactly what i was looking for

thx

quote:

Originally posted by AnomalyConcept The phrasing refers to musical phrases. If you pay attention, you'll hear that elements are usually layered or repeat every 8, 16, or 32 bars (assuming 4/4 time signature). You don't want to drop a track in the middle of a phrase since you would end up having two phrases not aligned and it would sound odd, hence the technique called 'phrasing'. It's actually fairly simple to do, and to be honest, doesn't require 'knowing your tracks'- it's definitely possible to predict the structure of a track.

Well said. I hate it when DJ's can't phrase their songs right and kick drums start hitting randomly.

You will realize that most trance tracks will have intros and outros that range from 8, 16, or 32 bars. The same applies for parts of the song. I guess this is where you gotta know your songs to know weather the song has a 8/16/32 bar intro/outro. Sometimes after a break, it'll take 16/32 bars till it reaches a certain point of the song where you wanna switch or whatever you like to do. So if it'll take 16/32 bars after the break, this is where I'll start a track with a 16/32 bar intro. Everything happens in 4...if not then who ever produced the song did not do a good job. Just cue up those tracks!

quote:

Originally posted by SPAWNmaster well its already been mentioned that you should know your tracks to begin with. additionally as a DJ you should know your genre well enough to predict to an extent how things will match up...your brain will do it automatically at a certain point and combined with knowing your tracks well, it will be perfect every time.

vinyl DJ's have the added advantage of being able to "see" what's happening on the grooves, kinda like the blind that read braille. know what RPM you're playing at (and the distance the needle moves laterally at that RPM per x number of bars) and be able to read the grooves and you should theorhetically be able to do just what you're saying PVD does.

quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag vinyl DJ's have the added advantage of being able to "see" what's happening on the grooves, kinda like the blind that read braille. know what RPM you're playing at (and the distance the needle moves laterally at that RPM per x number of bars) and be able to read the grooves and you should theorhetically be able to do just what you're saying PVD does.

what the fuck?
Thats the most long-winded way I could ever think of doing it. Up until now I've never even contemplated counting grooves or working out how far the needle moves per number of bars or anything like that. The only time I look at the grooves is to see how much of the track has played if I'm not paying attention.

Its simple, pretty much what this guy said:
"The phrasing refers to musical phrases. If you pay attention, you'll hear that elements are usually layered or repeat every 8, 16, or 32 bars (assuming 4/4 time signature).

You don't want to drop a track in the middle of a phrase since you would end up having two phrases not aligned and it would sound odd, hence the technique called 'phrasing'. It's actually fairly simple to do, and to be honest, doesn't require 'knowing your tracks'- it's definitely possible to predict the structure of a track."

it's not really about knowing your tracks as it's about knowing how music is structured

4, learn it, live it, love it

after a lot of practice and listening to the music you learn to anticipate where things will happen and how they'll likely happen

it will almost become second nature and you do it without thinking about it

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Morello it's not really about knowing your tracks as it's about knowing how music is structured 4, learn it, live it, love it after a lot of practice and listening to the music you learn to anticipate where things will happen and how they'll likely happen it will almost become second nature and you do it without thinking about it

I just want to make sure, I'm understanding this correctly. Once you hear the end of a phrase, you need to count off 4, 16 or 32 beats, right? Is that the point where you drop the cued track?

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