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DJM-800 / Ableton Integration
What have been your experiences integrating these two?
Is it an end-all solution to merging these two mediums? Most importantly, I'm talking sync issues between CDJs and Ableton, mapping issues, and sound fidelity issues.
(On a separate note, I've noticed my friend's Ableton sound is a bit poor: highs don't reach as high and lows don't reach as low. Whether this has to do with Ableton's signal processing or his MIDI controller or something else, I don't know.)
No, it's NOT an all in one solution.
If you goto the Pioneer pro dj forums, Pulse posted a PDF guide on how to setup Ableton and the DJM.
EDIT: Here is the link - http://www.mixaddicts.com/pulse/DJM...ton-MIDI-R2.zip
Essentially, most people end up getting an audio interface with a bunch of stereo outs (like 4), routing those into the DJM, and basically use the DJM-800 as a regular mixer, with a few buttons here and there assigned for MIDI control in ableton.
You then need another controller to launch clips and such.
The 3D is more suited for this, it's of course a lot more money, but hey you get what you pay for.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ryan0751 You then need another controller to launch clips and such. for. |
You can most certainly route audio directly into the 800 just as it was a deck. The issues arise when you try to use the eq's/fader controls, etc to control equivalent items in Ableton, because while that does work, the controls will also affect audio coming into the mixer. So most people just forgoe eq'ing/mixing in the software and just use the mixer to that (and it's fine to do so).
The reason you might want another controller is that there aren't enough buttons on the 800 to assign to launch clips and control effects and such in Ableton. If you don't mind clicking the mouse to launch a clip, you might be fine.
As for the redsound box... Yes you can output MIDI clock from it to Ableton. I think you can do that same with the mixer itself, but I'm not sure how accurate it is.
Doesn't that guide mention something about the clocking?
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| Originally posted by cassa.de.x Why can't I just route Ableton into the mixer as if it was another CDJ? What if I just want to mix in a loop from Ableton? I need TWO devices? Also, I don't know if you're familiar with this, Ryan, but what about having a DJM-800 with a Red SoundBite Micro? The Micro has a MIDI controller, so I was thinking I could slave Ableton to it. Red claims this works, as it has developed precise bpm-tracking technology over the years. |
the djm800 wasn't well designed to be used as both a MIDI and audio solution simultaneously...you want to go with either one or the other. integrating a multi-channel ableton setup or even a single channel (ie abletons' master output) into the djm800 is very simple. to be honest the technology behind combining ableton and CDJ's is very very simple and is still in early stages. also there have been PLENTY of threads about this so please use the search button to avoid redundancy. I believe my thread from a couple of months ago reviewing the 800 and about integrating ableton should still be around somewhere...if you have any specific questions about feel free to ask.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by SPAWNmaster I believe my thread from a couple of months ago reviewing the 800 and about integrating ableton should still be around somewhere... |
If I use only three channels, for example (2 cdjs, Ableton) on the 800, then basically I'd be left with only one channel for midi control....correct?
Or does Ableton not use a dedicated channel on the mixer and I'd therefore have 2 free midi mappable channels?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by miamitranceman If I use only three channels, for example (2 cdjs, Ableton) on the 800, then basically I'd be left with only one channel for midi control....correct? Or does Ableton not use a dedicated channel on the mixer and I'd therefore have 2 free midi mappable channels? |
That's not what he was asking...
Yes you are correct, you'll have 2 CDJ's connected up with Audio to the DJM-800's 2 channels (say 1,2). That means you can't map those channel controls in ableton, because they will also affect any audio coming in from the CDJ's.
The third input could be from your soundcard (And ableton)... this means that you also can't map the channel controls for that third channel (the eq's, volume fader, etc) in ableton either, as you'll affect the audio (if you change an eq, for example) coming into the Ableton channel.
The fourth channels controls could then be used for pure MIDI control.
BUT... what happens if you want to play multiple channels in Ableton? You will probably want to be able to Cue the audio, right? So you'll probably want another output from ableton coming into the mixer so that you'll be able to cue and such. Therefore that fourth channel isn't going to be free for long.
See, this is why the DJM-800's MIDI is really not adequate for use as an Ableton controller if you intend to mix decks and software.
You end up just using the mixer, well, as a mixer... and doing the MIDI control elsewhere (though there are a few more buttons on the 800 that aren't in the mixer section you can map to various functions in Ableton).
If you look at A+H's Xone 3D, you see that they realized this. They keep the mixer portion essentially separate from the MIDI portion, with appropriate connections between the two (Soundcard routes to the mixer, etc.).
could you not go ableton master out into the mic input? and control two ableton channels with djm channel 3+4 and launch clips etc with the fader start buttons.
If you can convert a line output level to a mic level, it's possible... but you still have the inability to cue using the DJM's headphone jack as you'll still only have one input into the mixer...
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| Originally posted by cbrendan could you not go ableton master out into the mic input? and control two ableton channels with djm channel 3+4 and launch clips etc with the fader start buttons. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ryan0751 but you still have the inability to cue using the DJM's headphone jack as you'll still only have one input into the mixer... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by cbrendan Ahhh thats shit, i didn't think of that. Makes me regret selling my xone 62 for a djm 800, the xones eqing was soooo much nicer. Oh well. |
I've currently got a similar setup into my Xone 92... 4 audio outputs from Ableton running into 4 channels, and I use the "line/phono" switch to switch between decks and ableton. I still have a trigger finger for launching clips and navigating scenes and such.
Provided the new Xone 2D (and the new Xone 1D) aren't horrifically expensive, I think I'll add those to my 92 and essentially have a modular 3D.
But all of these solutions for the DJM-800 really limit it's use as an Ableton controller, you are really just using it as a mixer (which is totally fine, hell Max Graham is using it with Ableton this way). If you went all ableton, it would be really wastefull to have a great audio mixer with effects just to map some controls to ableton...
| quote: |
| Originally posted by SPAWNmaster there are ways around it, for example if you have digital coax outs on your interface you can run that channel as your Cue channel into the djm800 from ableton, and then the master via RCA 1/8" inch into the same channel on the 800. All you'd have to do is flip the switch in the back to change to the cue or master channel. this is just one of many options if you have a limited setup. I've used this method to get up to 8 sources hooked up when multiple people are spinning in the booth. some people like to run outs directly from individual ableton channels to various coresponding channels on the djm800. other people like to go for the more typical cue ch. on 3, master on 4 which allows for CDJ's and other sources to be hooked up on 1 and 2 (a total of 6 other sources technically using hte aforementioned method). like i said before, the djm800 was not well designed for simulatenously transmitting midi and controlling audio. likewise, it wouldnt make sense to map your eq's to EQ8 instead of (OR at the same time as) making use of the physical Eq's on the djm800 - which I am very happy with I'll add. |
Great explanation. So, if I'm using Torq for example with 2 cdjs, I'd basically have 2 unused channels, say 3 and 4, that I could midi map?
PS: Anyone else using the DJM 800 with midi in general and have any comments?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ryan0751 That's not what he was asking... Yes you are correct, you'll have 2 CDJ's connected up with Audio to the DJM-800's 2 channels (say 1,2). That means you can't map those channel controls in ableton, because they will also affect any audio coming in from the CDJ's. The third input could be from your soundcard (And ableton)... this means that you also can't map the channel controls for that third channel (the eq's, volume fader, etc) in ableton either, as you'll affect the audio (if you change an eq, for example) coming into the Ableton channel. The fourth channels controls could then be used for pure MIDI control. BUT... what happens if you want to play multiple channels in Ableton? You will probably want to be able to Cue the audio, right? So you'll probably want another output from ableton coming into the mixer so that you'll be able to cue and such. Therefore that fourth channel isn't going to be free for long. See, this is why the DJM-800's MIDI is really not adequate for use as an Ableton controller if you intend to mix decks and software. You end up just using the mixer, well, as a mixer... and doing the MIDI control elsewhere (though there are a few more buttons on the 800 that aren't in the mixer section you can map to various functions in Ableton). If you look at A+H's Xone 3D, you see that they realized this. They keep the mixer portion essentially separate from the MIDI portion, with appropriate connections between the two (Soundcard routes to the mixer, etc.). |
Sure, you can do that.
completely possible, though it's just a better idea because of points already made by ryan and myself, that you should get an additional midi controller. Personally I use my DJM800 as an audio mixer and use my novation Remote SL Zero right above the 800. It works perfectly and the zero is a hell of a DJ controller (in fact probably the most appropriate MIDI controller for ableton, after trying various others).
Thanks guys. Might be gettin an 800 soon.
u should just wait for the new korg or elcer mixers to come out...
Or get the new Xone 1D/2D and slap them next to your 800 
Who knows what that'll run you though... the MSRP's are a little scary.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by discobiscuit u should just wait for the new korg or elcer mixers to come out... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ryan0751 Or get the new Xone 1D/2D and slap them next to your 800 Who knows what that'll run you though... the MSRP's are a little scary. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ryan0751 Or get the new Xone 1D/2D and slap them next to your 800 Who knows what that'll run you though... the MSRP's are a little scary. |
Actually I guess the 1D is 199 (pounds)...
Probably $300-400 here, which isn't horrific.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Fledz Apparently 300 pounds which isn't too bad. Stick a Xone:1D next to your DJM800 and you're set |
whats the difference between the 1d and the 2d?
2D has a built in audio interface
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