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cutting edge production tricks

Looking to hear some newish concepts involving productin that can get me thinking in new ways and hopefully apply it to the kinda music i do. So i guess if you guys are real excited about a new thing you've encountered , feel free to talk about it here. Try to be as specific as you can with some audio examples if you can. Not asking for a walkthru or how to , just sort of looking for some inspiration to do new things. I'm pretty adept at production but in the last few years i've been doing more traditional music so my production chops are kinda dated. So i guess i would appreciate more advanced things that have kinda creeped up in the music as of recently.

So ya , help a brutha out. Tell you what , if you guys share some sweet nuggets of production ideas , as a token of my appreciation i'l make a personalized harmony tutorial for trance. I'm a masters student in music and harmony is my bitch so maybe we can help each other off.

if not then maybe you could share some naked pictures of someone's sister.

Q

there was a thread on the ableton forms that was 'things you wish you learned years ago'

i really wished i learned about group chaining in ableton... never have i had so much fun sidechaining certain frequencies of my bass/pad/whatever while leaving the rest unchainged.

i'll put on something like IQ, split the sound into 4 "knomes" of sound, fx the frequncies i want WITHOUT the use of a buss. i've never been able to achieve cool rhythmic patterns like this in my life.

cool thread.

listen to genres of music you would never imagine yourself listening to, and listen closely to the production quality and the way they do fills and effects and mixdowns.

Re: Q

quote:

Originally posted by Zombie0729 there was a thread on the ableton forms that was 'things you wish you learned years ago' i really wished i learned about group chaining in ableton... never have i had so much fun sidechaining certain frequencies of my bass/pad/whatever while leaving the rest unchainged. i'll put on something like IQ, split the sound into 4 "knomes" of sound, fx the frequncies i want WITHOUT the use of a buss. i've never been able to achieve cool rhythmic patterns like this in my life. cool thread.

do you have a link to that thread by any chance? i searched to no avail.

push the boundaries

Use EQ you don't think will work
Sidechain everything to see if it sounds good
layer up every single sound you make and put the different effects on the duplicate layer
there is no standard way to make any music although, be as mad and original as you can and you might just stumble on grooves

heres something i did i never imagined producing its intresting something i threw together at work on shoddy ass laptop speakers here this shit

here's the ableton thread you're talking about, made by yours truly =P

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56637&highlight=

Edited because I forgot to include the link

i was kinda looking for more specific things that were sort of new and cutting edge. Like if you have a specific thing you do or something you know someone else does , that is pretty cutting edge and well hasn't really ever been done before, then tell us about it. This thread isn't , well it doesn't have to be , just for me. I know that it involves people having to do work but like i stated , i was willing to share information on things i'm really good.

So ya , i'm really not looking for advice. I just think having a thread containing specific ideas about new concepts would be nice. And the whole idea of asking is so that i don't have to go listen to a million hours of music for something i might never come across unless someone just mentions it.

do you really think that by knowing cutting edge production techniques it will help you get to that killer track?

If the midi's are wrong and the instruments are wrong and the groove is wrong then no cutting edge techniques will really help.

If however you are at the top of your game and know most of it already and just want to know more advanced techniques then fair enough.

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewto...8fadf80d451a8e0

this is for ableton but most of the tips and tricks mentioned here can be applied to any DAW

I believe that practice and knowing your tools is essential.
The better you know your tools the easier you can translate your ideas into music.

a serious question:

why would anybody share thier hard earned secrets with a bunch of relativly unknown people?

i duno...

personally, i have nothing to share, but i do have my own little techniques and i think they only work for me because it's these little things that define my sound...

why would i share that? so honestly, do you guys like giving your little secrets away?

(im not advocating selfishness btw, im glad to help ppl out if they have SPECIFIC questions not covered in the forums/google...)

quote:

Originally posted by ASFSE a serious question: why would anybody share thier hard earned secrets with a bunch of relativly unknown people? i duno... personally, i have nothing to share, but i do have my own little techniques and i think they only work for me because it's these little things that define my sound... why would i share that? so honestly, do you guys like giving your little secrets away? (im not advocating selfishness btw, im glad to help ppl out if they have SPECIFIC questions not covered in the forums/google...)

most of the people who started producing with these instruments wish they only had a forum like this to discuss.

if you notice all the seasoned people on KVR answer such vague questions with such long answers its becuase it took them years to figure out all this stuff and their simply giving back because we've ALL taken ideas, themes, programming a step further from each other.

most producers dont look at each other like competition, although music is a business the artists are tradiationally very open about their creative process.

and think too... lets say i know a lot about synth programming but not a lot about percussion and rhythmic diliations. sharing our knowledge is only going to escalate both of us incredibly quickly.

I don't worry about sharing "secrets" because all it will do in my opinion is put better music out there, and push the boundaries.

So I'll contribute something which has helped my bass sound improve significantly.

When making a bassline I'm sure that alot of people want to make it so they get a nice saw flick or buzz sound while still getting alot of bass from the sound. There are a few different ways to do this and it can be done with almost any synth.(as long as the oscillators reset their cycle on note on)

One way is, if you have a saw sound that you really like the sound of but doesn't have enough bass, turn on another oscillator and mix the saw with a triangle wave. The trangle will give you the sub bass you need and the saw will give you that nice saw flick or bounce.

Another thing, everybody says don't boost only cut with EQ. Do remember this is only a general rule. Turn up a parametric eq band to about +6 db with a semi wide (not too wide) q or bandwith and sweep around the low end till you find a nice spot that the bass really comes out but isn't too muddy. +6 db is the highest I would go, but there is no real rule here. Make sure to place a compressor after the eq or you'll probably get some clipping or the sound will be too dull.
Don't over compress though. This method can really bring out the bass in a saw wave.

This is my newest and my favorite...Say you boost the bass with eq like stated above. But the saw sound is just too dull now. Add a multiband distortion unit (e.g. Quadrafuzz, Predator, etc...) turn up the mid high band a bit to give some distortion to the higher end of the saw, the "pluck", or "twang" whatever you want to call it. This will really make the "saw" character stand out while still having alot of low end. I think this one might be the trick of tricks when it comes to saw bass.

Anyway there's my addition, bass tricks
Ahhh crap now everybody is gonna have good bass...I'm screwed, I'm not going to be a millionare anymore!!! I was so looking forward to looking out the mansion window at all the little people who never figured it out suffering...darn..Oh well...



hehe Enjoy!

Oh and one quick envelope trick...use exponential <
peas!
~Airyck~

quote:

Originally posted by ASFSE a serious question: why would anybody share thier hard earned secrets with a bunch of relativly unknown people? personally, i have nothing to share, but i do have my own little techniques and i think they only work for me because it's these little things that define my sound... why would i share that? so honestly, do you guys like giving your little secrets away? (

Because i'm also willing to share information altho perhaps not relating to production technique that i spent hours learning which I would be very usefull to most.

Why do you guys have to be such wankers. I'm not asking for some step by step procedure.I'm not looking for secrets , i'm looking to be exposed to different ways to do things by sharing a specific concept, not the actual process. I clearly stated what i'm looking for, if you aren't interested , then don't post but for fuck sakes spare me your idiotic lectures.

quote:

Originally posted by ASFSE a serious question: why would anybody share thier hard earned secrets with a bunch of relativly unknown people? i duno... personally, i have nothing to share, but i do have my own little techniques and i think they only work for me because it's these little things that define my sound... why would i share that? so honestly, do you guys like giving your little secrets away? (im not advocating selfishness btw, im glad to help ppl out if they have SPECIFIC questions not covered in the forums/google...)

I dont mind shareing m secrets because I feel that my skills are high enough, if somebody coins my sound, I'll just come up with something better.

Things I do, automate everything, like automade reverbs settings, such as switching from a room verb to a multi echo...Tricky shit like that bitches!

Here are some percussion tricks I've learned over several years the hard way. These all contribute to my style and sound and might or might not work for others so keep that in mind and don't try to complain or argue. It's up to you if you want to try or follow these. Also I'm only talking about the usual trance beat at around 135-140bpm here.

Here is a short example to show you what kind of beat I'm talking about. This was made yeasterday using some of the tricks I'm goin to write about. (Not sure if the clip is the right one or works...can't check here at work)

Click

So here are some tips..

- Don't allow hihats/claps/snares/etc to have a clear resonant frequency. Listen carefully to the samples, pitch them up and down, and if there is a distinct tone resonating, don't use it. It will only mess with the melodic elements on the tune. You want your hihats/claps/snares to have frequency spectrum close to noise. Some shakers work great as the offbeat hihat and they usually have a pleasant frequency spectrum.

- Never have multiple sharp attacks at once. If your bassdrum has a nice snap to it, have a smooth and/or slow attack on the clap. Same thing with the hihats, have the closed one sharp and short, and the open hihat more like a 'whoosh'. You can also use fast limiter/compressor on the sounds individually to get rid of annoying attacks.

- You want your open hihat and clap to work together. Listen to them isolated. They should sound somewhat similar, interacting with each other. I like to have them about the same length too. Treat them as a pair.

- Never use too short samples with their ends cut off. There are sadly LOTS of these on most sample cd's. If you absolutely must use one, make a nice loop at the end using crossfade so it's not too obvious.

- Leave LOTS OF SPACE on the mix! I usually have highpass on the hihats with ridiculously high frequency. They sound silly on their own but great on the full tune. The clap can work even on as high frequencies as the hihats, or a bit lower.

- Don't use bass drums with long dirty decay on the higher frequencies. A nice smooth reverb tail-like decay on the initial snap/click can work sometimes but generally you want just the initial 'snap' and then 'BOOoom'. The lower frequencies should fade off smoothly, without any additional 'ooOOMPH's at the end. Though those bass drums can be used if the 'ooOOMPH' falls exactly on the offbeat, but usually it doesn't. Listen to the bassdrum soloed, it shouldn't create any sense of a rhythm alone other than the 1/4 beat.

- Have something on every 1/16 note! Better yet if that something is different on each note. Use shakers, closed hihats (at least two or three alternating) or other percussion to fill the beat. Layering these additional elements can bring fullness to the sound but one at a time is often enough, don't get too crazy with layering.

- I don't like ready made loops anymore. I used to use them but they are a bitch to work with. A simple shaker or percussion loop might be ok, but you still have to make sure the timing is right and the velocities and frequencies on the loop fit your beat.

- Don't use reverb on your basic claps and hihats, at least before your track has all the elements in place. Use as little effects as possible and make the beat sound good with the individual sounds volume envelopes.

- On the other hand, a nice smooth reverb on a drum sound that happens once on every measure at most sounds great, especially at the beginning of the tune when there are not many elements playing. Use some clap/click for this and place the sound carefully to create interest on the beat.

- Crash can use some reverb/ping-pong delay too. Use sidechain compressor controlled by the bassdrum (and maybe a slow filter sweeping up and down too) on the crash's reverb for the classic trance effect.

- Don't allow the drums to play too long. Have the claps and open hihat cut off at least before the next bassdrum hits. The clap can be cut on the next open hihat too if they're similar enough.

- The bassdrum is the king! Don't let anything mess with its territory. Cut off the low frequencies on all the other drums.

- Don't make the variations on the beat (percussion/hihats/etc) too long or too short either. Drum beat that repeats every measure or even twice/measure is good. You can then add some variations for example on every fourth measure to keep it interesting.

Here are some that I could think of right now. If anyone finds these useful I might write more about drum sounds later.

You win, thats way better then my shitty post.

mikk, you freakin' rock man! that is one of the better posts i've seen on this forum in a long time. credit to you for sharing personal insights that are actually useful rather than these assholes who "go why would you want to share"etc.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN mikk, you freakin' rock man! that is one of the better posts i've seen on this forum in a long time. credit to you for sharing personal insights that are actually useful rather than these assholes who "go why would you want to share"etc.

lol yeah it was nice that he shared all that info, im sure it helped some...but is any of that really "cutting edge"?? honestly? no...that's just technical, formulaic information.

do you see how many times he stated "Never do this, Don't use this..." ok fine, follow strict rules, that's a great way to expand your musical self unless you're just beginning, that stuff aint really anything new.

yeah, call me an asshole, but i like to think of it as being "direct"... whatever...

oh and frostraven...your tip imo was way more cutting edge than all that technical mumbo jumbo posted by mikk(no offense to mikk..i aint hatin', your stuff will help the newbies...)

Thanks for the compliments

Anyway, I must agree with ASFSE those tips weren't quite cutting edge.. Just some basic tricks. It may seem that I presented them as absolute rules you must follow, (never do this, always do that..maybe I shouldn't have used such strong words) but that's not the case. Those are simply things you should pay attention to. I don't always follow these "rules" myself

Glad you liked my tip.

Here is another...Kinda the same idea, but automade a freq notch or bandpass fliter on a eqed hooked up to the delay, so when the delay is taping the taps change in sound over time giveing your delay a bad ass vibe.

quote:

Originally posted by Frost-RAVEN Glad you liked my tip. Here is another...Kinda the same idea, but automade a freq notch or bandpass fliter on a eqed hooked up to the delay, so when the delay is taping the taps change in sound over time giveing your delay a bad ass vibe.

I really like that idea. So the filter is sweeping slowly up&down on the delay, right?


Oh, I have another one, and this is cutting edge:

Use CamelPhat and CamelSpace!

Like here, I tried to put the drumbeat from my earlier post slightly remixed to good use on a progressive track.

woh ZxZDeViLZxZ that trax hardcore

I would suggest popping E until you become really really gay. Everything will start to sound different and you will develop a much more sophisticated style.

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